2020 Georgetown 33B3 - CHF & Sway control upgrade recommendation.

[GTown]

Hello,

I really need your recommendation/advice for an upgrade on my 22000 F53 chassis.

I am thinking about the following upgrade to improve handling I really hate loosey-goosey feeling when I drive.

Which of the upgrade will make a noticeable difference?

1. Safe T Plus - is this worth it?

2. CHF Front - Hellwig 7962 11-14" Adjustable Endlinks for the front. (since the stock link is too short for 2nd hole and read many people using Hellwig to make the CHF on the front side)

3. CHF Rear - do you need to repeat #2 on the rear too?

4. Super Steer rear track bar

5. Sumospring for the front or rear or both?

6. Instead of CHF just get a roadmaster sway bar? Do I need to upgrade both front and rear?

7 Am I missing anything?

8 I am near Philadelphia and was wondering if there is a weight station that I can weigh my MH since I never weighed by MH yet. I am willing to drive a couple of hours for this.

Since this will require major investment I am asking for advice as to what I should really upgrade.

My goal is to spend less but want to improve drivability.

Thank you so much for your advice.

[Btm]

Originally Posted by GTown

Hello,

I really need your recommendation/advice for an upgrade on my 22000 F53 chassis.

I am thinking about the following upgrade to improve handling I really hate loosey-goosey feeling when I drive.


My goal is to spend less but want to improve drivability.

Thank you so much for your advice.

GTown

Do it in steps - you may be happy with the handling long before you add everything you listed.

I started with the CHF first-front and rear. It made a huge difference on my MH handling.

Added front Somos next and stopped there. It drives almost as well as my Silverado.

I believe that some M H don't require the same improvements as others to handle well. If you add everything at one time you will never know what was not needed or helped very little.


Btm

[NXR]

As BTM said but I would start with a professional alignment, one with lots of experience in motorhomes. I used the Ford Commercial Vehicle dealer that our RV dealer uses for their service work.

While my alignment was "within spec" their tech adjusted the toe a small amount and it definitely reduced the see-sawing of the steering wheel. Not a massive amount but definitely an improvement. An experienced tech is the difference between one just using the Ford specs and one knowing a motorhome. My alignment cost $135 two years ago.

I had a Safe-T-Plus installed when the motorhome was brand new so I cannot give any before-and-after comparison.

What EXACTLY is the problem you're trying to solve? High winds? Trucks passing? Steering wandering all over the place all the time? Or what? Different problems have different solutions.

I see you have a 22,000 GVWR chassis with a 228" wheelbase. I have the same chassis on a GT5 but a 242" wheelbase.

Ray

[Dodge Guy]

Mine came with all the suspension mods done by the previous owner. So it’s hard to say what works and what doesn’t. What I can say is that mine rides exceptional compared to my buddy’s 2017 Fleetwood Bounder. His rode like an old lumber wagon. We did front Sumo Springs and the CHF to the front and rear axles. It felt like the harshness was taken out of the front when driving. And the body roll was lessened on turns and uneven driveways.

I say to do it in steps. The damper is a must. So start with that and the CHF. Then do the Sumos and finally the Koni FSD shocks.

[GTown]

Originally Posted by Btm

GTown

Do it in steps - you may be happy with the handling long before you add everything you listed.

I started with the CHF first-front and rear. It made a huge difference on my MH handling.

Added front Somos next and stopped there. It drives almost as well as my Silverado.

I believe that some M H don't require the same improvements as others to handle well. If you add everything at one time you will never know what was not needed or helped very little.


Btm

Thank you so much for the advice

I will start with alignment, Safe T Plus, then CHF.
Just a quick question on the CHF, I read many using hellwig adjustable rod (extendable from 11 to 14") instead of the original rod to keep the geometry close to the original.

Should I use the original rod or just get a hellwig?

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by GTown

Thank you so much for the advice

I will start with alignment, Safe T Plus, then CHF.
Just a quick question on the CHF, I read many using hellwig adjustable rod (extendable from 11 to 14") instead of the original rod to keep the geometry close to the original.

Should I use the original rod or just get a hellwig?

I did the CHF front & rear with the OEM links in 2017. But I have the 18,000 F53 chassis.

[bubbles]

Originally Posted by GTown

Thank you so much for the advice

I will start with alignment, Safe T Plus, then CHF.
Just a quick question on the CHF, I read many using hellwig adjustable rod (extendable from 11 to 14") instead of the original rod to keep the geometry close to the original.

Should I use the original rod or just get a hellwig?

This is just a WAG but I think there is a reason it was called Cheap Handling Fix.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by GTown

Thank you so much for the advice

I will start with alignment, Safe T Plus, then CHF.
Just a quick question on the CHF, I read many using hellwig adjustable rod (extendable from 11 to 14") instead of the original rod to keep the geometry close to the original.

Should I use the original rod or just get a hellwig?

If you read enough posts you'll know that the bushings in the Hellwig links are not exactly the same size as the Ford links. You'll need to press the Ford bushings out and press them into the Hellwig links, replacing the Hellwig bushings.

If you're unsure, just do the CHF with the stock links and see if they give you the change you're looking for. You can change the links later if desired.

Ray

[NXR]

I will start with alignment, Safe T Plus, then CHF.

While they're all sort of interrelated for the effect they will have, the CHF is addressing a different problem than the other two, sway. If you can do the CHF yourself there is no harm in doing the CHF first and seeing the effect just that change has.

The alignment may require that the Safe-T-Plus be readjusted; mine did. The Ford dealer alignment tech knew that and readjusted my Safe-T-Plus as part of his test dive. So you might actually want to do those three in the opposite order.

I recommended the alignment first because I did not know if you were OK with the Safe-T-Plus expense. Either order works.

Ray

[mogman]

Mine is an older GT, 2011 built on a 2009 chassis. When I got it, it was all over the road, made for some scary driving. On the advise of this forum, I got an alignment at a local truck shop(recommended by the local Ford truck dealer) and then did the front end CHF. This transformed the driving experience and I stopped there, not wanting to throw extra $$$$ for a small future improvement.
I also realize its a "Truck" so the ultimate ride quality is not going to match an air suspended DP

[IDguy]

Originally Posted by GTown

Hello,

I really need your recommendation/advice for an upgrade on my 22000 F53 chassis.

I am thinking about the following upgrade to improve handling I really hate loosey-goosey feeling when I drive.

Which of the upgrade will make a noticeable difference?

1. Safe T Plus - is this worth it?

2. CHF Front - Hellwig 7962 11-14" Adjustable Endlinks for the front. (since the stock link is too short for 2nd hole and read many people using Hellwig to make the CHF on the front side)

3. CHF Rear - do you need to repeat #2 on the rear too?

4. Super Steer rear track bar

5. Sumospring for the front or rear or both?

6. Instead of CHF just get a roadmaster sway bar? Do I need to upgrade both front and rear?

7 Am I missing anything?

8 I am near Philadelphia and was wondering if there is a weight station that I can weigh my MH since I never weighed by MH yet. I am willing to drive a couple of hours for this.

Since this will require major investment I am asking for advice as to what I should really upgrade.

My goal is to spend less but want to improve drivability.

Thank you so much for your advice.

You should do wheel alignment first.

My 30x3 (18k) drove fine off the lot. I had CHF done with first oil change. Barely noticeable except for low speed roll.

I’m happy with it as is.

[IDguy]

PS: Some States, like mine, let you use the weigh stations when they are closed. Just drive onto scale and look for red display. You can separately do front and rear.

[Jim G]

BTM is right. I did chf, sumo springs and rear tracksteer.

I carry a motorcycle on the rear and it really made sway non-existent.

Have not needed spent the money on sway bars, the rv handles very well on mountain roads.

[workjo00]

I got my "New2Me" 2012 378 last fall and immediately noticed the opportunities with sway. It was like being in a boat! No long trips yet, but wanted to reduce some of the stress associated with the constant steering corrections, to make the upcoming long trips go a little easier. I used the Hellwigs on front, extended to 12.75" (stock are 10.5). Lots of posts and opinions on the subject and I'm not going to say what's "right" or "best", but I wanted to try to keep the angle between the links and bar about the same as original (around 4 o'clock). Using stock links put the angle around 5-5:30. Maybe it doesn't matter, but for about $100 I still consider it "cheap". Rears were fine, mine were mounted to the frame at the top about centered between the 2 holes, so the angle remained about the same but inverted from about 4:30 to about 7:30 (front hole to back hole). Ride was much improved regarding the sway or "rocking the boat". I also added a SuperSteer trac bar to the rear to reduce the lateral push on the rear when a truck passed me. It would push the rear to the right, and made me feel like I was being sucked into the left lane in front of the oncoming truck. Trac bar took care of that almost completely. I also added the Roadmaster steering stabilizer, which helps me stay centered in the lane a little easier. I drive mostly with one hand now.

As mentioned earlier, there are several different issues that can affect handling, and each issue has a different solution>
-Boat Rock (sway): CHF or "semi CHF with Hellwigs)
-Getting sucked-in (lateral movement rear axel): Trac Bar
-Sawing the wheel (lane drift): Steering Stabilizer

I'm reading good things about Sumo Springs, and may go there at some point. But for now, I am much happier with the ride than I was on that first trip home!

[GTown]

Originally Posted by workjo00

I got my "New2Me" 2012 378 last fall and immediately noticed the opportunities with sway. It was like being in a boat! No long trips yet, but wanted to reduce some of the stress associated with the constant steering corrections, to make the upcoming long trips go a little easier. I used the Hellwigs on front, extended to 12.75" (stock are 10.5). Lots of posts and opinions on the subject and I'm not going to say what's "right" or "best", but I wanted to try to keep the angle between the links and bar about the same as original (around 4 o'clock). Using stock links put the angle around 5-5:30. Maybe it doesn't matter, but for about $100 I still consider it "cheap". Rears were fine, mine were mounted to the frame at the top about centered between the 2 holes, so the angle remained about the same but inverted from about 4:30 to about 7:30 (front hole to back hole). Ride was much improved regarding the sway or "rocking the boat". I also added a SuperSteer trac bar to the rear to reduce the lateral push on the rear when a truck passed me. It would push the rear to the right, and made me feel like I was being sucked into the left lane in front of the oncoming truck. Trac bar took care of that almost completely. I also added the Roadmaster steering stabilizer, which helps me stay centered in the lane a little easier. I drive mostly with one hand now.

As mentioned earlier, there are several different issues that can affect handling, and each issue has a different solution>
-Boat Rock (sway): CHF or "semi CHF with Hellwigs)
-Getting sucked-in (lateral movement rear axel): Trac Bar
-Sawing the wheel (lane drift): Steering Stabilizer

I'm reading good things about Sumo Springs, and may go there at some point. But for now, I am much happier with the ride than I was on that first trip home!

I purchased roadmaster steering stabilizer and rear trac bar to install. I first want to see what difference this will make and then decide on the hellwig afterwards.

I am also thinking about summo spring in the front once everything is done.

[270S]

Originally Posted by GTown

Hello,

I really need your recommendation/advice for an upgrade on my 22000 F53 chassis.

I am thinking about the following upgrade to improve handling I really hate loosey-goosey feeling when I drive.

Which of the upgrade will make a noticeable difference?

1. Safe T Plus - is this worth it?

2. CHF Front - Hellwig 7962 11-14" Adjustable Endlinks for the front. (since the stock link is too short for 2nd hole and read many people using Hellwig to make the CHF on the front side)

3. CHF Rear - do you need to repeat #2 on the rear too?

4. Super Steer rear track bar

5. Sumospring for the front or rear or both?

6. Instead of CHF just get a roadmaster sway bar? Do I need to upgrade both front and rear?

7 Am I missing anything?

8 I am near Philadelphia and was wondering if there is a weight station that I can weigh my MH since I never weighed by MH yet. I am willing to drive a couple of hours for this.

Since this will require major investment I am asking for advice as to what I should really upgrade.

My goal is to spend less but want to improve drivability.

Thank you so much for your advice.

You can be like some here and be CHEAP or do it right. That simple. I did everything and would again!

1. Safe T Plus - 100% Requirement!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eliminates Jackie Gleason Syndrome
2. Rear Traction Bar - 100% Requirement!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eliminates 50-75% of the lean on turns
3. Front & Rear Sump Springs - Smooths Ride
4. Hellwig Rear Sway Bar 2nd - Extra

Bluntly, the ride is Night and Day and anyone that doesn't do everything is just being Cheap! You asked, I told. Let the haters begin or not.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by 270S

You can be like some here and be CHEAP or do it right. That simple. I did everything and would again!

1. Safe T Plus - 100% Requirement!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eliminates Jackie Gleason Syndrome
2. Rear Traction Bar - 100% Requirement!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eliminates 50-75% of the lean on turns
3. Front & Rear Sump Springs - Smooths Ride
4. Hellwig Rear Sway Bar 2nd - Extra

Bluntly, the ride is Night and Day and anyone that doesn't do everything is just being Cheap! You asked, I told. Let the haters begin or not.

Throwing time and money at a problem certainly can achieve the desired results. So can defining the actual problem the person is trying to resolve while taking into consideration their chassis GVWR and wheelbase.

Lighter, shorter chassis seem to have a lot more complaints about handling and ride than the longer, heavier chassis. "Handling" is often subjective based on the driver experience and expectations.

Ray

[270S]

Originally Posted by NXR

Throwing time and money at a problem certainly can achieve the desired results. So can defining the actual problem the person is trying to resolve while taking into consideration their chassis GVWR and wheelbase.

Lighter, shorter chassis seem to have a lot more complaints about handling and ride than the longer, heavier chassis. "Handling" is often subjective based on the driver experience and expectations.

Ray

Frankly, it's the manufacturers that are the cause of the problem. If they weren't cutting corners and had these items as standard equipment, the cost would be significantly less in bulk, not to mention no after the fact installation charges.

On the topic of Long/short wheelbase, items 1 & 2 because I do not believe any have them as standard. The Safe T Plus 100% STOPS the shimmy and #2 significantly reduces the roll. Those are a minimum for starters.

[kentdavido]

So our 2016 rig which we purchased new was a psychopath until we attached the toad a year later. And then everything settled down. We added a steering stabilizer and I have to admit the guy has been a trooper. Towing our 4 door Jeep Wrangler made all the difference.

[IDguy]

Originally Posted by NXR

Throwing time and money at a problem certainly can achieve the desired results. So can defining the actual problem the person is trying to resolve while taking into consideration their chassis GVWR and wheelbase.

Lighter, shorter chassis seem to have a lot more complaints about handling and ride than the longer, heavier chassis. "Handling" is often subjective based on the driver experience and expectations.

Ray

I have the 18k short chassis. It drives fine. I did the chf but it made little difference. I often tow a Cherokee and it makes no difference to handling. I’ve also carried a motorcycle: no difference.

I suspect several things. First, it is all about the wheel alignment. If done right you should have no problems.

Second I’ve driven a pickup with all forms of RVs for 50 years. The 30x3 is a puppy dog compared to some of them in certain situations (mostly wind).

Also I avoid Interstates as much as possible which is most of the time. And I traverse many mountain passes to go anywhere. So hands on driving is a must.