Add Ext vent '17 270S microwave

[270S]

I would like to add an exterior vent to 2017 270S microwave vs using exhaust that is not even close. Wondering if anyone has successfully done this in this model Georgetown and specifically was there studs in the way of the exterior venting? Anyone who has successfully done this and could share info would be greatly appreciated.....I have seen some of the posts for other models.

[wvphil]

When I did my 378 I was concerned about studs and wiring also. If you are unable to find someone who has previously done a 270s Id suggest trying this. Once you remove your microwave and mark with your template cut from inside through the 1/4” wallboard. You should have styrofoam sandwiched between the inside wallboard and outside fiberglass wall. Use exacta knife ie hobby knife to cut the foam and if no obstacles you can proceed through the fiberglass. (i drilled my 4 corners from inside with small bit then went to outside and cut the fiberglass from outside after masking with tape to avoid scratches and ensure straight cut) If you have obstruction that cant be resolved such as a metal stud you can replace the foam and replace the inside piece u cut out and use metal tape to tape the inside piece back to wall. Then reinstall microwave and only you will know it has ever been cut. This was my intention when I installed my vent as I was unable to find anyone who had previously done a 378. I did my cutting with a multi tool ( harpor freight $30 special) with excellent results. World of difference getting food smell out along with venting the heat from convection out of coach rather than into coach. Once you do it you’ll be glad you did.

[270S]

Thanks, I an OEM in the marine industry and capable. I was going to do what you mentioned - I was hoping this forum might provide an answer but with the typical 100 to 1 (or more) ratio of views vs replies, I never hold my breath - lol.

Aside from the unprofessionalism throughout he industry in all areas, the most significant thing that I notice is that lessons learned are never remembered or carried forward. I briefly had a TT before this RV and it had a wonderful exterior kitchen, range hood & MW that vented overboard, ... but those were no where to be seen on the RVs I looked at.

[270S]

Being in Florida, there is a short window from apx Oct - Mar that we get cold enough to actually see the location of the metal studs on the walls Light condensation forms on the fiberglass outlining where the studs are. There is a lack of condensation there. The area behind the MW has 100% condensation so there is probably no stud in the wall there.

This vent at Amazo (Others stores too)- https://www.amazon.com/JR-Products-5.../dp/B007HFX6KM appears to be what was installed in my TT. I assume it will fit the MW or be adaptable to fit it. This one has a 1.5" flange that goes through the wall vs the 50025 model that has only a 5/8" flange. I can always shorten, but lengthening is near impossible. With Amazon, I could always swap it out.

[wvphil]

Before doing the mod I found a part number in the microwave owners manual listing a metal adapter that fastened to the microwave at the vent opening where the plate is currently installed on the microwave to keep the exhaust from venting without a vent. I cant remember what the manufacture charged me for this adapter but it was not much. Once this is installed only need to seal between the metal adapter and the black plastic vent. I used the metal aluminum tape instead of regular duct tape since the convection does heat to 450 degrees. Was not sure how hot the air exhausting would be while using convection oven so thought the metal tape would be better. Could probably get by without this adapter and seal with tape to back of microwave but It was worth the few extra bucks to me. This may be something you want to consider. .

[270S]

Great Minds think alike. wvphil thanks for the info - I was just wondering about that.

I removed the MW and turned the fan motor 180 and then noticed the tabs. The manual said a damper goes there. I found it through Google. I was wondering if it was actually needed though because in a residence it would seal preventing incoming air from exterior vent, but in the RV, the external vent has a seal that you have to open each time (most probably leave it open, but I'm OCD and will O&C as needed). I'll probably get one anyway.

I deleted a post (screw question) after I discovered that the 2 screws above were under the cabinet floor bottom. That is I had to remove the top panel piece of the cabinet bottom. It was held in with staples. The 2 x 4 is between 2 1/8" panel pieces. I may move those screws above for future use if needed. Not really visible - have mat on cabinet bottom.

[270S]

Pics of TT outside Kitchen - prevented lots of heat & mess. Additionally, there is a also a gas barbeque that hangs to the right of the external kitchen slide out. You can see the standard vent just forward (right) of the door. Add an egine up front and it becomes basically a 270S.

[270S]

Pics of Condensation showing outlines of insulation and "studs" in wall. In the "winter" it gets more obvious and goes down to floor level. Also pics of MW area and inside bottom panel of cabinet. Found another area FR never used a vacuum to clean up after installation - I do not think they know what one is or own one - NO LOL. Fan was rotated 180 degrees to send it out via rear vs recirc to inside RV. Missing (never supplied) damper. Explains why exterior vent is so much larger than rear opening on MW. Wall support plus overhead cabinet with 2 holes for top screws and masterful (NOT) oversized cutout for power cord - such lazy SOAs. Top panel piece of bottom of cabinet removed to access the 2 hidden screws. I'll screw it down vs staple it in - another example of lazy, cheap, lousy design specs, ignorance of maintenance, ....

[wvphil]

Looks like your about ready to start cutting. These pictures are great to help others whom may want to add vent and rid inside of coach of food smell while cooking and heat while using convection. Informs them how to discover if any studs in way to prevent adding vent. I agree about the quality but I think this is across most all manufactures unless one has pockets deep enough for a prevost liberty conversion. I hear the ones from Red Bay are a little better also but I guess we get what we pay for. Overall After four and a half years of ownership I do think my 378xl is a good value as compared to other brands I looked at. Post us some pictures when done with your project if you have time.

[270S]

I marked inside for cut (not in posted pic), but will wait til I have ext vent and damper before doing so.

After reading Tiffin & Newmar forums, I don't see much difference - they seem to have the same problems. It is an industry wide mindset.

I think that if you are willing to be the QC inspector for Tiffin and drive 1000-2000 miles to Red Bay, they may make good, but park, take a number, and wait. I'll pass.

I have not looked deep into Provost, but my gut tells me they have some of the same problems - same RV parts hidden under pretty marble.

I have had to do over 60 (yes really 60) warranty issues myself. I avoided RV Dealer service after learning a lesson or two. I would still not have my Rv til sometime in 2028 probably. There are still outstanding issues and I have turned it over to my attorney at this point! That is all they understand. I may have a Friday, End of Year, End of Model, Built from Spare Parts RV, but that is NO EXCUSE! POS that when I get finished will be rejuvenated even better than a supposed Provost is.

If one so desires, you can seem some of it plus upgrades here (Middle to Bottom of web page) http://www.zrd.com/pd/esdttrv.html

[wvphil]

Wow. Looks like you did get one assembled by someone with a bad hangover. Sorry to hear your hassles. I have added safety steer, rear trac bar, chf with longer links and handling now acceptable. Five star tune fixed the screaming 5th to 3rd downshifts, progressive industries surge protector, microwave vent, metal plates to bottom of front slides to prevent gouging, and additional 15k btu ac in front of the stove area and relocated fantastic fan to vent in shower area. With the three ac’s I now stay cool even with the single pane windows. The only real defect I found other than the wiring problems in two slides is no drain ie access to winterize the residential frig. I removed filter and bought a blank cartridge so the icemaker and lines/ control block could be winterized but still not happy having to cycle icemaker for several hours till it spits out pink slush to ensure it is winterized. i learned the hard way first year when the control block froze and cracked 1st winter stored. To avoid having to flush icemaker and lines each year i found a cutoff valve in access compartment in cabinet in toilet area and just permanently turned it off and leave frig winterized. I found buying a bag of ice and keeping in freezer and using bottled water to be less annoying than having to be tortured with winterizing with no way of draining water out of frig. Ive been told they added a drain line after 2013. After reading your list of issues I feel like I need to play Powerball this weekend. I may be able to get that prevost after all. I really like that spare tire carrier. This would be great for a trip to Alaska. Im also envious of your solar system and battery bank. This would also make an Alaskan adventure more comfortable.

[270S]

Ordered vent, should be here Wednesday, install Thursday. Post pics after that. Onto wiring in (via selector switch) my 2nd 800AH house battery bank. This will allow me to charge the 2nd bank while I am driving via the engine alternator, not just shore power or generator. I wasn't going to, but dry camping and long drives in between, why not!

[DrLewie]

When I purchased my 2007 Cardinal 5er I noticed it didn't have an outside ven't. I asked the salesman if it could be added and he told me no. While on our first trip I was looking through the pile of documentation that came with the rig and found the unit had a convertible vent and could easily be changed to outside. I then talked to the service manager and he told me it would be no problem, so I had him do it. FYI, next week I'm trading in the Cardinal for an Arctic Fox, and guess what...it comes with a factory installed outside vent.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by 270S

Being in Florida, there is a short window from apx Oct - Mar that we get cold enough to actually see the location of the metal studs on the walls Light condensation forms on the fiberglass outlining where the studs are. There is a lack of condensation there. The area behind the MW has 100% condensation so there is probably no stud in the wall there.

This vent at Amazo (Others stores too)- https://www.amazon.com/JR-Products-5.../dp/B007HFX6KM appears to be what was installed in my TT. I assume it will fit the MW or be adaptable to fit it. This one has a 1.5" flange that goes through the wall vs the 50025 model that has only a 5/8" flange. I can always shorten, but lengthening is near impossible. With Amazon, I could always swap it out.

HD/Lowes sell stud finders.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by 270S

I marked inside for cut (not in posted pic), but will wait til I have ext vent and damper before doing so.

After reading Tiffin & Newmar forums, I don't see much difference - they seem to have the same problems. It is an industry wide mindset.

I think that if you are willing to be the QC inspector for Tiffin and drive 1000-2000 miles to Red Bay, they may make good, but park, take a number, and wait. I'll pass.

I have not looked deep into Provost, but my gut tells me they have some of the same problems - same RV parts hidden under pretty marble.

I have had to do over 60 (yes really 60) warranty issues myself. I avoided RV Dealer service after learning a lesson or two. I would still not have my Rv til sometime in 2028 probably. There are still outstanding issues and I have turned it over to my attorney at this point! That is all they understand. I may have a Friday, End of Year, End of Model, Built from Spare Parts RV, but that is NO EXCUSE! POS that when I get finished will be rejuvenated even better than a supposed Provost is.

If one so desires, you can seem some of it plus upgrades here (Middle to Bottom of web page) Observations and Feedback regarding the RV and Travel Trailer Industry

Throw the damper away. You will not like the noise.

[270S]

Originally Posted by cavie

Throw the damper away. You will not like the noise.

As I have said many times on this Forum, I am an OEM and we do things 100% correctly or we do NOT do it. I suspect that whoever did yours did not install the damper correctly, It has to be tight in the slip in tabs and often overlooked, the top piece needs to be unscrewed and clamped over the damper to prevent it being loose leading to vibration. The damper flap will not vibrate when the fan is running as it will be forced against the stops and stay there from the air flow.

Regarding the installation, the inside area needs to be marked out exactly to within a 1/16" to have perfect alignment. I did nearly a dozen measurements. This is not a measure once / twice scenario, if you get it wrong, it will be a multi-thousand dollar mistake with fiberglass repair required. So, after careful exact measurements, I initially used a dremel on the inside to cut the outline with a "wheel-blade", then I drilled 2 bottom holes with the smallest drill to mark the bottom corners, then went up a few inches because the top corners were not drill accessible, then used a square to measure up to the top corners and marked everything on the outside with a sharpie and used the dremel wheel blade to outline the cut area enabling an easier path for the dremel router function to follow. Multiple depth passes and I was through matching the inside outline exactly removing the apx 4 x 10 x 2 block of external fiberglass, insulation, and interior plywood.

Placed vent in cutout and marked all 10 screw holes with an extremely sharp awl and drilled first small holes and increased size up to proper pilot hole for #8 screws. This is extremely important in order to not crack the fiberglass! I then applied 1" Putty tape I purchased at ACE (US Hardware RV Putty Tape 1 pk(R-011B) - R V Accessories - Ace Hardware) hardware to the back side of the vent and gently pushed it in&on to the outside of the RV. I then screwed in the screws starting at the bottom and stopped as soon as the screws met and resistance to turning - very important again. On the inside, due to nature of the vent design, ... I applied caulking to completely seal the area along the perimeter so that there were no air gaps. I reinstalled the MW and reattached the cabinet base with screws vs staples. I then attached the vent ext cover and caulked the top & sides.

BTW, I can not take credit that the dark vent fit completely inside the dark painted area - pure coincidence & luck. It blends in well, imho.

FYI, I removed all of the excess wood above the MW cabinet (lower bottom part). It just made for a cleaner installation. No one would see it, but I would know it was done properly now. That is how I run my business, that is what I would want done for me.

Everything is done, allowed 3 hours for the caulking to "dry" and tested on low and high. NO damper noise, just the sound of the fan and everything is ready for my next outing. Enjoy the pics. 'hope this assists someone else. A full day job and $65 would be a 5-25 cent cost to FR for the tape and caulking, the cutout would be part of the sidewall manufacturing (no additional cost), and the damper they threw always was included with the MW at N/C. FR suxx. This is not an upgrade or option, it is a requirement!

[cavie]

Originally Posted by 270S

As I have said many times on this Forum, I am an OEM and we do things 100% correctly or we do NOT do it. I suspect that whoever did yours did not install the damper correctly, It has to be tight in the slip in tabs and often overlooked, the top piece needs to be unscrewed and clamped over the damper to prevent it being loose leading to vibration. The damper flap will not vibrate when the fan is running as it will be forced against the stops and stay there from the air flow.

Regarding the installation, the inside area needs to be marked out exactly to within a 1/16" to have perfect alignment. I did nearly a dozen measurements. This is not a measure once / twice scenario, if you get it wrong, it will be a multi-thousand dollar mistake with fiberglass repair required. So, after careful exact measurements, I initially used a dremel on the inside to cut the outline with a "wheel-blade", then I drilled 2 bottom holes with the smallest drill to mark the bottom corners, then went up a few inches because the top corners were not drill accessible, then used a square to measure up to the top corners and marked everything on the outside with a sharpie and used the dremel wheel blade to outline the cut area enabling an easier path for the dremel router function to follow. Multiple depth passes and I was through matching the inside outline exactly removing the apx 4 x 10 x 2 block of external fiberglass, insulation, and interior plywood.

Placed vent in cutout and marked all 10 screw holes with an extremely sharp awl and drilled first small holes and increased size up to proper pilot hole for #8 screws. This is extremely important in order to not crack the fiberglass! I then applied 1" Putty tape I purchased at ACE (US Hardware RV Putty Tape 1 pk(R-011B) - R V Accessories - Ace Hardware) hardware to the back side of the vent and gently pushed it in&on to the outside of the RV. I then screwed in the screws starting at the bottom and stopped as soon as the screws met and resistance to turning - very important again. On the inside, due to nature of the vent design, ... I applied caulking to completely seal the area along the perimeter so that there were no air gaps. I reinstalled the MW and reattached the cabinet base with screws vs staples. I then attached the vent ext cover and caulked the top & sides.

Everything is done, allowed 3 hours for the caulking to "dry" and tested on low and high. NO damper noise, just the sound of the fan and everything is ready for my next outing. Enjoy the pics. 'hope this assists someone else. A full day job and $65 would be a 5-25 cent cost to FR for the tape and caulking, the cutout would be part of the sidewall manufacturing (no additional cost), and the damper they threw always was included with the MW at N/C. FR suxx. This is not an upgrade or option, it is a requirement!

That has to be the best write up of how to install I have ever seen. it should come with every microwave. The problem is I don't live in your Utopian world. I live in the real world as at least two other posters do on this forum in regards to this issue. The fan will, in fact, keep the damper open without noise while it is running if installed properly. THE PROBLEM IS, Very often, while the fan is off, the wind blowing outside the trailer/MH will suck the damper open and closed causing it to flutter in the wind. That is the noise I and other posters are referring to. It is very real and does happen. There is no safety issue what so ever in doing this. This is in reference to the flimsy interior flapper. By all means, leave the outside flapper in place (Provided you have one. Mine does) that has the two locking tabs you can engage while traveling. You don't want any bird nest in your vent.

[270S]

Originally Posted by cavie

That has to be the best write up of how to install I have ever seen. it should come with every microwave. The problem is I don't live in your Utopian world. I live in the real world as at least two other posters do on this forum in regards to this issue. The fan will, in fact, keep the damper open without noise while it is running if installed properly. THE PROBLEM IS, Very often, while the fan is off, the wind blowing outside the trailer/MH will suck the damper open and closed causing it to flutter in the wind. That is the noise I and other posters are referring to. It is very real and does happen. There is no safety issue what so ever in doing this. This is in reference to the flimsy interior flapper. By all means, leave the outside flapper in place (Provided you have one. Mine does) that has the two locking tabs you can engage while traveling. You don't want any bird nest in your vent.

Thanks for the nice reply .

There are no points for second place in my world. Granted, most won't .... and I will not force anyone to think like me, that is 100% personal choice and what this country was founded on, but if more did, that would be how we would in fact make America Great Again. It is what I remember the country was like in the 60s and 70s, before the technical revolution. Products from manufacturing to end customer were typically 400% mark up, not thousands (greed) and quality control was actually the manufacturer's responsibility, not the customer.

Now, I understand your flapper noise comment - I didn't when you first mentioned it. Yes I lock and unlock the outside flapper most every use, not just after parked and before leaving. A bit OCD, but that's me (no points for second place) and again, personal choice - no right or wrong.

[wvphil]

Looks fantastic. Thanks for taking the time to post pictures and detailed instructions. Im sure this will be very helpful to others whom may want to do this modification. I agree with you as being a necessity as it made a world of difference in my coach in the summer while using the convection. It’s also nice when cooking on stove to keep the lingering food odors out of coach. I am also puzzled why the vent is not standard on the Georgetown as It appears to be on some other brands. As far as your quality and attention to detail, its nice to hear there are still a few of you left. I’m sure with your work ethic you have been a very successful businessman and have many repeat customers. I hope you’ve got the bugs worked out of your coach and are able to enjoy yours as much as I have mine. Best wishes.

[270S]

For those that want details, here are pics and measurements of how the exterior wall is constructed. Starting from outside, fiberglass is apx 3/32" combines with 5/32" plywood for an exterior layer 1/4" thick, then a 1" foam center, and interior plywood wall is 5/*' thick for a combined thickness of 1 7/8" total. This should complete my thread inputs on this for me.