So our last 2 trips we've had issues with the batteries. The batteries check out good but both go dead overnight with just the heaters running. Before going to bed we have the generator running so they should be fully charged.
Also a question for anyone that has the answer.... Can the tv run on batteries with a inverter? I swear when we 1st looked at this RV the guy had the TV on with the generator off & not plugged up. After I bought it we had a power surge that fried the convertor, tv & microwave. I replaced the convertor & other items but not sure where the inverter is located. We own a 2011 378
Voltage of the batteries determines HOW dead they are...
if the voltage drops below 12V ( normal is 12.6 volts) then batteries are considered to be dead and need re-charged within a day or two, otherwise you lose battery capacity.
If the voltage drops to 11 or 10 volts or lower, then you have already lost battery capacity. You will NEVER get out of the battery what it had when new.
Have you ever popped the caps off the top of the batteries to check water level? ANything below the split ring at the bottom of the 3 or 6 holes in the top is TOO LOW. Refill ONLY with distilled water.
__________________ "nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle." Thomas Jefferson to John Norvell pg. 2, June 11, 1807 2014 Shamrock 183
2014 RAM 1500 Bighorn Crew Cab, HEMI, 3.21 gears, 8 Spd, 4X4 TST TPMS
So our last 2 trips we've had issues with the batteries. The batteries check out good but both go dead overnight with just the heaters running. Before going to bed we have the generator running so they should be fully charged.
Also a question for anyone that has the answer.... Can the tv run on batteries with a inverter? I swear when we 1st looked at this RV the guy had the TV on with the generator off & not plugged up. After I bought it we had a power surge that fried the convertor, tv & microwave. I replaced the convertor & other items but not sure where the inverter is located. We own a 2011 378
We have a 2013 378.
On ours, the inverter only runs the residential refrigerator and nothing more. It is located above the LP tank behind a plastic panel. Depending on the size of your batteries you probably will only get an overnight run if both heaters running. Of course this all depends on the size and age of your batteries. (I added large Trojan batteries).
Now, if you don't have a residential refrigerator then I would still look for the inverter. Maybe the gfci on the inverter tripped or the main breaker for the inverter tripped.
Good luck and let us know what you find out.
I think that if there is an inverter it was installed by a previous owner. Haven't read of a 2011 378 delivered with an inverter. Although...
Ya I've looked & can't find anything but just wanted to check with the group to make sure. Still gotta figure out why my batteries won't last the night. Sucks waking up with no heat!!! Thanks
Frankly, there is so much BAD INFORMATION regarding batteries, it's absurd.
A 12 volt battery is actually a 13.02 volt battery. It has six 2.17 volt cells in series when new, as they age, it will drop to apx 2.13 volts per cell (12.78 Vdc). Measuring voltage tells you mostly NOTHING about its condition - good or bad unless it is brand new or Dead Dead. As just mentioned, new batteries will read in excess of 13 volts on a voltmeter when charge power is removed and it is in a steady state after a few hours. A dead battery after or during charging that is incapable of reading 12.8 volts is Dead. The ONLY WAY TO TEST A BATTERY IS WHILE IT IS UNDER LOAD. The electronic testers are 100% useless. The only reliable accurate tester is basically a heater with a voltmeter. For small batteries, they are apx $30 and a tester for larger batteries (over 100Ah) is apx $50. I recommend the larger one for the price difference so that you never have/need 2.
Regarding testing & Voltage. Voltage is the unit measured, but it must be under load and return almost to the original starting voltage within 10-15 seconds or it tests dead. The best analogy I can offer is if you have a cracked 2 x 4 piece of lumber spanning a distance and it is still "straight", you could probably put a small weight on it and be OK, but put a load of books in the middle and it will bend or snap.
Same thing with a battery or battery bank. Depending on its size (AH), it may appear OK (12.5 volts or higher), but in fact it is dead. If you have a small battery bank 100-200Ah and run lights, .. they may work, but try and run refrigerator or inverter and nothing. If the battery bank is dead but large (eg 1000Ah), you may run a 10 -20 amp load "OK" for a while, but the moment you increase the load, everything will stop functioning.
BTW, most can't believe it, but I run my RV and boat 100% off the batteries (including overnight air conditioning), and only start the generator to charge the batteries. When tailgating, most RV companions start their gen before the leave home and its running until they get back home (No plug in available). They consume 50 - 150 gallons diesel while I have used as little as 1/2 gallon. Daytime hot temperatures do require generator use because of the non-stop requirements for the air conditioning and lousy insulation of RVs.
Frankly, there is so much BAD INFORMATION regarding batteries, it's absurd.
A 12 volt battery is actually a 13.02 volt battery. It has six 2.17 volt cells in series when new, as they age, it will drop to apx 2.13 volts per cell (12.78 Vdc). Measuring voltage tells you mostly NOTHING about its condition - good or bad unless it is brand new or Dead Dead. As just mentioned, new batteries will read in excess of 13 volts on a voltmeter when charge power is removed and it is in a steady state after a few hours. A dead battery after or during charging that is incapable of reading 12.8 volts is Dead. The ONLY WAY TO TEST A BATTERY IS WHILE IT IS UNDER LOAD. The electronic testers are 100% useless. The only reliable accurate tester is basically a heater with a voltmeter. For small batteries, they are apx $30 and a tester for larger batteries (over 100Ah) is apx $50. I recommend the larger one for the price difference so that you never have/need 2.
Regarding testing & Voltage. Voltage is the unit measured, but it must be under load and return almost to the original starting voltage within 10-15 seconds or it tests dead. The best analogy I can offer is if you have a cracked 2 x 4 piece of lumber spanning a distance and it is still "straight", you could probably put a small weight on it and be OK, but put a load of books in the middle and it will bend or snap.
Same thing with a battery or battery bank. Depending on its size (AH), it may appear OK (12.5 volts or higher), but in fact it is dead. If you have a small battery bank 100-200Ah and run lights, .. they may work, but try and run refrigerator or inverter and nothing. If the battery bank is dead but large (eg 1000Ah), you may run a 10 -20 amp load "OK" for a while, but the moment you increase the load, everything will stop functioning.
BTW, most can't believe it, but I run my RV and boat 100% off the batteries (including overnight air conditioning), and only start the generator to charge the batteries. When tailgating, most RV companions start their gen before the leave home and its running until they get back home (No plug in available). They consume 50 - 150 gallons diesel while I have used as little as 1/2 gallon. Daytime hot temperatures do require generator use because of the non-stop requirements for the air conditioning and lousy insulation of RVs.
Pls explain how 4 6v batteries with a combined 20hr rating of at most 440a/h can run an air conditioner all night. Very conservatively an RV 13k AC will draw 13 AC amps continuously after start up. That translates to 130 DC amps...totally flattening your battery bank and damaging it in 4 hours.
So let's say you have a 5k portable unit...still 9amps AC and 90 DC so you got another hour before ruined batteries.
OH...and you start your post about misinformation with a bit of your own. Batteries are NOT 13.2 V when new. 100% charge may vary slightly when new but ANYTHING over 12.8 is called SURFACE CHARGE and is what is left on non fully mixed electrolyte after charging and will disappear from any battery at any stage of its' life after 24 hours in a disconnected state as the charge equalizes throughout the entire battery. Note that in the Trojan Chart for 100% charge...of both Wet and AGM cells...there is nothing over 12.8V. The surface charge can be wiped out with any kind of real load in a couple of minutes if you don't want to wait 24 hours.
Frankly, there is so much BAD INFORMATION regarding batteries, it's absurd.
I agree. You should not propagate more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 270S;2313863A
12 volt battery is actually a 13.02 volt battery. It has six 2.17 volt cells in series when new, as they age, it will drop to apx 2.13 volts per cell (12.78 Vdc). Measuring voltage tells you mostly NOTHING about its condition - good or bad unless it is brand new or Dead Dead.
The numbers you state are very temperature-dependent. It is pretty rare when someone measures the batteries at exactly 25C (~68F). Stating them as an absolute is misleading.
The picture below illustrates this rather strong relationship. It also illustrates how misleading that Sears Diehard commercial of the car starting at 40 below (C or F, doesn't matter) in knee-deep snow was. The real test would have been starting in the summer desert.
__________________
Larry
"Everybody's RV is not like your RV."
"Always take pictures with the button on the right."
"Always bypass the water heater before opening the low-point drains."
Sticks and Bricks: Raleigh, NC
2008 Cherokee 38P: at Ivor, VA permanently
Frankly, there is so much BAD INFORMATION regarding batteries, it's absurd.
A 12 volt battery is actually a 13.02 volt battery. It has six 2.17 volt cells in series when new, as they age, it will drop to apx 2.13 volts per cell (12.78 Vdc).
Talk about BAD INFORMATION... start with this post...
Battery University says this...
Quote:
Lead Acid
The nominal voltage of lead acid is 2 volts per cell, however when measuring the open circuit voltage, the OCV of a charged and rested battery should be 2.1V/cell. Keeping lead acid much below 2.1V/cell will cause the buildup of sulfation.
__________________ "nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle." Thomas Jefferson to John Norvell pg. 2, June 11, 1807 2014 Shamrock 183
2014 RAM 1500 Bighorn Crew Cab, HEMI, 3.21 gears, 8 Spd, 4X4 TST TPMS
Larry...re: die hard...
A battery at 0 degrees will only deliver half the current capacity of one at 80... while I agree that losses from self discharge are FAR greater in the heat than in the cold...it is current capacity that matters when starting like the Die Hard commercial IMO. Operating in high heat WILL reduce the cycle life and make it a die easy! Going over 120 degrees in operating OR charging case temps will damage wet and AGMs. We agree entirely on the rest of it. Of course a lifeline AGM is a very different animal than a 6V wet cell AND pretty different from most mass market AGM's as well.
The general rule for wet is to add or subtract .024V above and below 80 degrees for every 10 degrees of temp change to figure out soc accurately.
Larry...re: die hard...
A battery at 0 degrees will only deliver half the current capacity of one at 80... while I agree that losses from self discharge are FAR greater in the heat than in the cold...it is current capacity that matters when starting like the Die Hard commercial IMO. Operating in high heat WILL reduce the cycle life and make it a die easy! Going over 120 degrees in operating OR charging case temps will damage wet and AGMs. We agree entirely on the rest of it. Of course a lifeline AGM is a very different animal than a 6V wet cell AND pretty different from most mass market AGM's as well.
The general rule for wet is to add or subtract .024V above and below 80 degrees for every 10 degrees of temp change to figure out soc accurately.
RSD...Yup!
Cam, Can you suggest a good article on current capacity vs. temperature for FLA batteries?
Maybe find one that discusses amp-hours and not Cold Cranking Amps. The topic of amp-hours over Cold Cranking Amperes has been beaten to death in these forums.
__________________
Larry
"Everybody's RV is not like your RV."
"Always take pictures with the button on the right."
"Always bypass the water heater before opening the low-point drains."
Sticks and Bricks: Raleigh, NC
2008 Cherokee 38P: at Ivor, VA permanently
The 270S reply, "Frankly, there is so much BAD INFORMATION regarding batteries, it's absurd" hits the subject like the proverbial,"hitting the nail on the head."
I have studied RV'ing for over a decade so that when I retired I will have purchased the best tow vehicle and best trailer that I could afford and suited my need.
Safety,driving and backing, Tow vehicle, tires, suspension, trailer specs, the different weight ratings of tow vehicle and trailer separate and combined, and maximum height are looming concerns and challenges for students of RVing.
I purchased an RV in May of 2019.
I replaced a single 12 volt battery with a bank of six 6 volt lead acid golf cart batteries.
To say the least, it has been an education to learn the aspects of battery charging and maintenance.
It is not cut and dry.
It is not black and white.
There are many variables.
The best analogy that I can think of to describe The art and science of charging a battery is akin to knowing how to deftly steer a single screw motor boat with swift current and prevailing wind into a mooring.
All being said, the moral of my post is that any student of RVing, young or old, has to put the art and science of battery charging in the list of required learning in order to successfully enjoy the lifestyle.
Of course if the RV'er only sets up at RV campgrounds with electricity, dump station and Cable TV, my point is moot.
However, today with off the grid solar powered systems, Dry Camping and Boondocking is more the norm than in the past and if electricity is the life blood of your system, than your battery is the heart.
The 270S reply, "Frankly, there is so much BAD INFORMATION regarding batteries, it's absurd" hits the subject like the proverbial,"hitting the nail on the head."
I have studied RV'ing for over a decade so that when I retired I will have purchased the best tow vehicle and best trailer that I could afford and suited my need.
Safety,driving and backing, Tow vehicle, tires, suspension, trailer specs, the different weight ratings of tow vehicle and trailer separate and combined, and maximum height are looming concerns and challenges for students of RVing.
I purchased an RV in May of 2019.
I replaced a single 12 volt battery with a bank of six 6 volt lead acid golf cart batteries.
To say the least, it has been an education to learn the aspects of battery charging and maintenance.
It is not cut and dry.
It is not black and white.
There are many variables.
The best analogy that I can think of to describe The art and science of charging a battery is akin to knowing how to deftly steering a single screw motor boat with swift current and prevailing wind into a mooring.
All being said, the moral of my post is that any student of RVing, young or old, has to put the art and science of battery charging in the list of required learning in order to successfully enjoy the lifestyle.
Of course if the RV'er only sets up at RV campgrounds with electricity, dump station and Cable TV, my point is moot.
However, today with off the grid solar powered systems, Dry Camping and Boondocking is more the norm than in the past and if electricity is the life blood of your system, than your battery is the heart.
Cam, Can you suggest a good article on current capacity vs. temperature for FLA batteries?
Maybe find one that discusses amp-hours and not Cold Cranking Amps. The topic of amp-hours over Cold Cranking Amperes has been beaten to death in these forums.
I don't know of any articles Larry but the Trojan user guide is pretty comprehensive and focused on deep cycle. https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/Tr...UsersGuide.pdf
Look around section 8 anf there's a graph of temp vs. available capacity. Note that it is at the 5 hour rate rather than the 20 hr. but similar curves may be expected. Above that they also make the statement about 0 degrees = half the capacity as at 80. It was surprising to see 120% of capacity available at 120 degrees but it makes sense...just destroys the battery more quickly while performing that feat! Hope the link helps...lots of other good stuff in that manual.
I don't know of any articles Larry but the Trojan user guide is pretty comprehensive and focused on deep cycle. https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/Tr...UsersGuide.pdf
Look around section 8 anf there's a graph of temp vs. available capacity. Note that it is at the 5 hour rate rather than the 20 hr. but similar curves may be expected. Above that they also make the statement about 0 degrees = half the capacity as at 80. It was surprising to see 120% of capacity available at 120 degrees but it makes sense...just destroys the battery more quickly while performing that feat! Hope the link helps...lots of other good stuff in that manual.
I wonder if something similar is published for Flooded Lead Acid batteries....
__________________
Larry
"Everybody's RV is not like your RV."
"Always take pictures with the button on the right."
"Always bypass the water heater before opening the low-point drains."
Sticks and Bricks: Raleigh, NC
2008 Cherokee 38P: at Ivor, VA permanently
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