Brand new GT5: Norcold slide-mounted fridge vented incorrectly?

[NXR]

In preparation for the arrival of our first Class A I downloaded and read many of the manuals for the various system components. I paid close attention to the refrigerator manuals due to fires in older units and due to reports of reduced performance in slide-mounted units. I also watched each of the videos from Ford's RV Refrigeration (search YouTube for the full set), some of which discuss improper refrigerator ventilation.

While doing our motorhome PDI a week ago, a 34H5 with a Norcold 1210T refrigerator in a slide, I removed the upper external panel (the refrigerator exhaust). It appears to me that the refrigerator may be improperly vented which can invalidate the warranty and possibly create a hazard. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

While the non-slide-mounted refrigerators exhaust the heat and combustion gases from the boiler system vertically through a roof vent, slide-mounted refrigerators need the exhaust heat and gases to make a 90-degree turn and vent out the side. Norcold addresses this in their installation manuals found at https://norcold.com/product-manuals/. Search for the word baffle. Various excerpts from the 1210 installation manual follow. The bold-face is found in the manual:

Ventilation Requirements

WARNING: The completed installation must:

- Make sure the living space is completely isolated from the combustion system of the refrigerator.

- Make sure there is complete and unrestricted ventilation of the flue exhaust which, in gas mode, can produce carbon monoxide. The breathing of carbon monoxide fumes can cause dizziness, nausea, or in extreme cases, death.

- Make sure the refrigerator is completely isolated from its heat generating components through the correct use of baffles and panel construction.

Certi[]
Any other installation method voids both the certification and the factory warranty of the refrigerator.


Install the Baffles for an Upper Side-Wall Exhaust Vent

CAUTION: Make sure that all horizontal baffles are the full width of the inside enclosure and are in the correct location. If the baffles are not the full width of the enclosure or incorrectly located, poor cooling performance can result.

- Install a wood, aluminum or galvanized steel top baffle [13] between the top of the refrigerator and the top of the upper exhaust vent.
- Make sure that the top baffle is less than 1/4 inch [15] from the top of the refrigerator and the baffle overlaps the refrigerator by 1 inch or less.
- Make sure that the baffle is against the wall of the vehicle at the top of the upper exhaust vent and less than 1/4 inch above the opening for the upper exhaust vent.

- Install an aluminum or galvanized steel bent-sheet condenser baffle [26].


If you've read this far, you probably already guessed where this is going. The top angled baffle was not installed and the condenser baffle may not be metal.

The drawing (see below) shows the baffle as an angled panel that, as you would imagine, simply directs the exhaust gases out the side vent panel. Otherwise the rising heat and combustion gases will hit the top of the slide and are free to go over the top of the refrigerator, possibly leaking into the interior, and eventually making their way out the exhaust vent after the area gets hot enough.

If the refrigerator catches fire the lack of the top angled baffle could allow the smoke and heat to enter the interior faster because the smoke and heat would not be directed out the exhaust vent. On the plus side, having an interior smoke detector near the refrigerator could give you an earlier warning.

On the picture below where you see the condenser fins in the lower left, that gap at the top is where the angled baffle should be. I stuck a tape measure in there and it seemed to go all the way to the front of the refrigerator but I did not write down the distance. I think the brown strip is the very front of the refrigerator, illuminated by the flash. The black/gray area should be the top of the slide, partially in shadow. It's not a huge vertical opening as I recall but I did not measure it. There also is a small vertical gap between the top of the exhaust opening and the top of the slide for heat to accumulate, noticeably more than 1/4 inch. (The Preview shows this picture rotated counter-clockwise 90 degrees)

The picture with the wood-grained panel is a wider angle of the exhaust vent. That wood-grained panel apparently is the "aluminum or galvanized steel bent-sheet condenser baffle [26]" that assures the rising air flow from the two Norcold muffin fans actually reaches the condenser and does not leak out the bottom of the exhaust vent first. I'm pretty sure that it's not made out of metal because it's got that wood grain on it. I think it's a veneer panel, possibly plastic.

We raised this as a PDI issue with the dealer so we'll see where this goes with Forest River. Hopefully it's just a mistake on a limited number of units or just ours (or nothing at all).

Since the angled baffle needs to be the full width of the refrigerator and secured somehow there's no way it can be retrofitted without removing the refrigerator. Replacing the wood-grained condenser baffle, if it is not made out of metal, will also require that the refrigerator be removed since the baffle has to be full width of the enclosure

Your thoughts are appreciated but please stay on topic. I'm already aware that a residential refrigerator does not have these problems nor do replacement cooling units. The RV has not been accepted by us yet and the dealer is fantastic to work with. They have filed a warranty claim for the missing angled baffle but not the other one, the wood-grained one. I just realized this morning that it is also a problem.

Ray

NOTE: The installation manual for non-slide-mounted refrigerators also requires baffles to channel the heat out the roof-mounted exhaust vent so it does not go over the top of the refrigerator and into the coach. If you have a non-slide-mounted refrigerator feel free to review the manual for how yours should be baffled.

[Mr. October]

Interesting. We are at our first FROG event and one of the Cedar Creek owners was discussing this last night. I only half paid attention because our refrigerator isn’t int the slide but he had to have an auxiliary fan mounted in the exhaust to achieve proper cooling.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by Mr. October

Interesting. We are at our first FROG event and one of the Cedar Creek owners was discussing this last night. I only half paid attention because our refrigerator isn’t int the slide but he had to have an auxiliary fan mounted in the exhaust to achieve proper cooling.

There are multiple complications.

1. The heat generated by the boiler has to rise and escape but it has to go past the condenser or at least through the same exhaust vent.

2. The condenser needs to be kept "cool" for the fridge to function. The thermal switch for the two muffin fans, the one you see on the end of the condenser, is set to 130 degrees. I can envision the fans being on continuously in the hot sun.

3. The non-slide installations have a natural advantage because heat rises. But they're supposed to be vertically baffled in a similar way. You might want to check the installation manual and then see if yours is.

4. The improperly vented ones could have their warranty invalidated by Norcold.

5. If a fire occurs, seconds count and a fridge fire usually occurs in the path to the only escape door in a Class A. The missing baffles could cut your escape time because of the path over the top of the fridge.

The ARP Fridge Defend people do sell small fans for slide fridges, one for the bottom (inlet) and one for the top (exhaust). Their thermal switch clamps to the pipe on the condenser end, not a fin. They claim this gives them a more accurate view of the liquid temperature, which makes some sense. I'd have to hit it with a temperature gun to see if there is a difference in reality.

Ray

[NXR]

Follow-up posts. I put these on another thread so I'll just put that link here:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...nt-191752.html

Bottom line: We're three days into a week-long trip and the repairs the dealer did seem to have greatly improved the fridge operation. In short:

They installed a piece of aluminum-covered insulation board on top of the fridge that fills in the space at the top of the fridge from the front of the fridge to the back of the fridge and the full width.

This eliminated the large amount of heat coming into the coach from the rear of the fridge, across the top of the fridge and into the completely open space above the fridge doors.

For aesthetics, they also installed a black piece of plastic (flat) above the fridge doors to cover that aluminum board. If you don't understand, take a step stool and look down at the top of the fridge doors. It's completely open all the way to the outside.This is where we were seeing temps above 100 degrees coming into the coach as well as carbon monoxide.

They applied foil tape all along the back of the fridge to seal off heat leakage and CO (carbon monoxide) leakage into the coach. Previously we were seeing CO levels of 70 PPM when in propane and when a crosswind blew into the exhaust vent because the top of the fridge is completely open from the outside to the inside. That's got to help with cold weather sealing as well.

The temps on this trip have been in the 80's with the afternoon sun directly on the fridge slide. The fridge has held steady at 37-38 and the freezer has held steady at 5-6 (excluding door openings, of course). The fridge temp setting has been 4 or 5. Previously a 9 would not keep the temps where they were supposed to be.

We still do not have the angled baffle at the top but (fingers crossed) so far so good. I think the removal of the dead air space above the fridge has been the big difference. I may try to build an angled baffle out of cooking aluminum foil just to see if it does anything if we start having issues again when we go south.

Ray

[NXR]

To confirm, after a couple more trips including today when it's 90 out and the afternoon sun has been directly on the slide with the fridge, the temps have been great! The freezer is sitting at 1 degree and the fridge is sitting at 38 with a fridge temp setting of 4. We never need to vary the temp setting anymore. This is using electric and not propane.

No supplemental fans were added. Just filling in that space above the fridge itself and plastering foil tape all over the back did the trick.

Ray