Microwave dead as a doornail

[cavie]

To fast-track this, see if you can locate a plug-in surge protector in the park and plug it into your pedestal. You must start there to begin finding the cause. To keep it simple I'll ask one question at a time.

[NMWildcat]

Sounds like it is way past time to call a mobile tech and have the park look at the pedestal.

[Kaadk]

Originally Posted by cavie

To fast-track this, see if you can locate a plug-in surge protector in the park and plug it into your pedestal. You must start there to begin finding the cause. To keep it simple I'll ask one question at a time.

In post #20 he mentions checking the surge protector. But he also refers to a couple of LED lights, so I'm guessing it's just a surge protector and not a full EMS. His plan to swap to the 30A until the park owner can fix the 50A is probably sound, but with a problem already on the 50A, I'd be a little suspect of the 30A side and would recommend he tests the 30A before just plugging in.

He may also need to involve either an electrician or a dealer to check the coach over and determine what all died and may need repairs. So far, it sounds like:

1) Stereo
2) Backup camera
3) Water Heater element
4) Microwave
5) Converter
6) At least one of the AC units

[Mikegjax]

Originally Posted by flynfool

When it rains it pours. First it was the Furrion DV1200 stereo, then the backup camera, and now the Furrion microwave has died. I saw the thread about the Amana microwave having an internal fuse so I pulled the Furrion off the wall (at great effort I might add), took off the skins, located the fuse, and confirmed it was OK. What now? I suspect I'll have to take it to a Furrion "repair center", which is probably a busy place. Any help? Oh, BTW, woke up this morning to no hot water. Checked the breaker, the first step in all of these electrical disasters, and it was OK. Luckily it has a propane mode so I'll use the gas mode for hot water until I can diagnose THAT problem. Any help resurrecting the microwave would be appreciated.

Make sure your shore power is on would be the first step in any 110 volt issue.

[Mr. Dan]

Originally Posted by Mikegjax

Make sure your shore power is on would be the first step in any 110 volt issue.

From the info in several previous posts, it looks like the troubleshooting is way beyond this test.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by flynfool

Thanks, WMTIRE. I think I may have an open neutral situation and I lost a lot of sleep last night thinking about it. Left the wife in the MH and am at daughter's house for a visit but before I left I checked surge protector and it only had 2 of 3 green lights, indicating a problem with one leg of the 240V. As you guessed, the water heater died (have propane backup) and the rear A/C also seems dead (no fan). Last night the wife called to say the satellite antenna had stopped working, also on the same side of the RV. TV still works and front A/C seems OK. I told her to get park guy over to look at surge protector lights and hopefully do something to get all 3 in the green. I'm worried about the fridge, which could be next. Question: what to do if it is the open neutral? Change spaces? Change parks? We're paid up for a month but I'll move anyway to save rest of MH electrical. Man do I need help!!

Quick electrical 101. Even though your motorhome is a 50 amp type, which connects to a split phase 120/240 volt outlet, the motorhomes electrical distribution panel keeps each leg separate, so that everything in the MH ONLY get;s 120 volts from either Line/Leg 1 or Line/Leg 2. The neutral line carries the current imbalance between the L1 and L2

As explained in the link I provided above, you can sometimes have a faulty neutral, and under load, is not keeping the 120 volts per line. You could be undervoltage on one line, and way overvoltage on the other, which is what is possibly frying some electrical things.

Your have some things that only run on 12 volt DC (think of battery power like in a car), but when you are connected to 120 volt AC power, your RV has a device called a converter, which takes 120 volt AC and converts it to 12 volt DC...... in order to power up all the 12 volt DC items instead of your battery. If the converter doesn't work, or if you are not connected to shore power, then your battery provides power to these same 12 volt DC things. The converter also is what recharges your batteries when connected to 120 volt AC shore power.

It sounds to me like your converter is also fried, or not working, since you say your batteries are showing discharge.

Now if you do have an open neutral, it could be in the parks power pedestal (my guess it is), or could be a problem with a shore power cord, or other.

Let me think on this for a sec. I don't want to suggest something, and possibly do more damage. I would definitely get the parks personnel on this, to check out their power pedestal. You may want them to open it up, and see. The previous link about the open neutral would be a good guide for them to check on their end.

Does your wife know how to connect/run the onboard generator...or is it even feasible being where the RV is currently located, for test purposes?

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Kaadk

In post #20 he mentions checking the surge protector. But he also refers to a couple of LED lights, so I'm guessing it's just a surge protector and not a full EMS. His plan to swap to the 30A until the park owner can fix the 50A is probably sound, but with a problem already on the 50A, I'd be a little suspect of the 30A side and would recommend he tests the 30A before just plugging in.

He may also need to involve either an electrician or a dealer to check the coach over and determine what all died and may need repairs. So far, it sounds like:

1) Stereo
2) Backup camera
3) Water Heater element
4) Microwave
5) Converter
6) At least one of the AC units

YEP, he has checked the surge. A light is out. Does he know IF the surge is working properly?. NO. Was the pedestal hit once and now working fine and the surge is damaged? Nobody knows. You start troubleshooting with known good information. Since he is not an electrician his best way to test the pedestal is with a known working surge. IF that shows good, he has Trouble with the cord and/or trailer and he can move on to your list. If it shows bad like his does THEN he will know his surge is good and the problem is in the pedestal. It's called troubleshooting. Start at the source and work your way back. Electric 101.

[andymil]

If half of the stuff is working fine, it sounds more like an open leg.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by andymil

If half of the stuff is working fine, it sounds more like an open leg.

I would think that too, but something damaged the microwave... since according to the OP, the outlet the microwave was plugged into, does have power. This is what is leading me towards an overvoltage situation, possibly during a load, like a microwave would provide.

[andymil]

Ok, maybe I’ve got this backwards but, if the microwave put a big load on one leg, wouldn’t the voltage drop on that leg and go up on the other leg? Maybe the MW was damaged by an under voltage condition??? Just thinking out loud.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Mikegjax

Make sure your shore power is on would be the first step in any 110 volt issue.

I will add: "and working properly"

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by andymil

if the microwave put a big load on one leg, wouldn’t the voltage drop on that leg and go up on the other leg? .

Let me think on this a sec, as I think you are correct.

Maybe the OP can also provide us a pic of his RV's electrical distribution panel, with labeled circuit breakers...so we can see exactly what is on each leg. It may be awhile since the OP is not currently at the RV.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by andymil

Ok, maybe I’ve got this backwards but, if the microwave put a big load on one leg, wouldn’t the voltage drop on that leg and go up on the other leg? Maybe the MW was damaged by an under voltage condition??? Just thinking out loud.

You are correct. That would be how the MW gets too much power PROVIDED a dropped neutral is the issue here.

[flynfool]

While I was visiting the daughter the wife got the park Mgr to install the 30A dogbone and in the process noted that the 50A outlet was not only hot, one of the legs on the outlet was almost melted! I cut short the visit with the kin and rushed home to find that all the troubled areas in the MH seemed to be curing themselves. The A/C was working fine, the water heater suddenly resurrected, and I ran a long extension cord out to the microwave in the back of the car and found it was working! Now I know it wasn't an open neutral, it was half the 240 going on and off, depending on the temp of that leg at the pedestal. That's why the microwave died but when I checked the outlet it was OK; that side had reconnected at the melting plug. The park mgr said we had overloaded the 50A circuit but that was impossible. We couldn't have used the MW...it was dead when we first connected. The A/C was only on fan, and the water heater is always on and shouldn't fry the outlet. No hair dryers running, either. Overloading wasn't it. Also, an open neutral would have resulted in voltage spikes, permanently damaging everything. If there was ever a silver lining, at least no real damage. I plan to remount the MW and tell Furrion to send the new one back. AS for the stereo, I suspect loose crimps on the speaker wires. I now have a wiring diagram to work with and will tackle that mystery later this week. Right now I'm just glad to know the whole MH isn't going to melt down. As for the pedestal power, I'm stuck with the 30A plug until another space opens up; my risk is minimal. Once again, kudos to the Forum readers who put me onto the system diagnosis as each appliance started to fail. Thanks, guys. I hope we have all learned a little more about MH electrical systems. And, an apology to Furrion.

[cavie]

Very good to hear. You now know to troubleshoot and stop guessing. let us know if your surge is working properly when you move. What do you mean by"having the MW company send back the new one"?? I thought they sent YOU a new one?


There is no way you overloaded the pedestal. You have 50 amps on each leg. That's the equivalent of 100 amps. You motorhome can't use that much even if everything in it was on at the same time. A melted plug is a sign of a loose connection. What does the male plug on your cord look like? You may need a new one. You may still need to borrow a surge to check it out.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by wmtire

Electric problems can have so many causes, and it's always a process to determine, which includes getting as many details as possible from the OP.

As stated for those reading this, when troubleshooting, it's best to provide as many details as possible, and include all you can. This greatly helps in the solution.

Originally Posted by flynfool

While I was visiting the daughter the wife got the park Mgr to install the 30A dogbone and in the process noted that the 50A outlet was not only hot, one of the legs on the outlet was almost melted! I cut short the visit with the kin and rushed home to find that all the troubled areas in the MH seemed to be curing themselves. The A/C was working fine, the water heater suddenly resurrected, and I ran a long extension cord out to the microwave in the back of the car and found it was working! Now I know it wasn't an open neutral, it was half the 240 going on and off, depending on the temp of that leg at the pedestal. That's why the microwave died but when I checked the outlet it was OK; that side had reconnected at the melting plug. The park mgr said we had overloaded the 50A circuit but that was impossible. We couldn't have used the MW...it was dead when we first connected. The A/C was only on fan, and the water heater is always on and shouldn't fry the outlet. No hair dryers running, either. Overloading wasn't it. Also, an open neutral would have resulted in voltage spikes, permanently damaging everything. If there was ever a silver lining, at least no real damage. I plan to remount the MW and tell Furrion to send the new one back. AS for the stereo, I suspect loose crimps on the speaker wires. I now have a wiring diagram to work with and will tackle that mystery later this week. Right now I'm just glad to know the whole MH isn't going to melt down. As for the pedestal power, I'm stuck with the 30A plug until another space opens up; my risk is minimal. Once again, kudos to the Forum readers who put me onto the system diagnosis as each appliance started to fail. Thanks, guys. I hope we have all learned a little more about MH electrical systems. And, an apology to Furrion.

Glad to hear it's all going now. Just do remember that using a 30 amp adapter, you will be very limited on what you can use at the same time. You went from TWO 50 amp legs (100 amps total), to only ONE 30 amp leg (30 amps total)

Although you probably didn't ever overload the 50 amp pedestals outlet, you very easily can overload the 30 amp one.

These links may help:

Basic RV Electricity - RV Information (RV Maintenance)

https://www.rvtechmag.com/electrical/chapter3.php

P.S> I received your thanks, and appreciate it. Again, glad to hear it's solved now.

[flynfool]

Furrion sent a new MW but it is on the way. I plan to contact them to see if they can turn it around before it gets here. The old one works fine now. And, yes, I have a surge protector now that tells me if a leg of the 240 is not working. Since it's cool here, will not be running A/C's and don't expect to have any trouble with "only" 30A of power.

[andymil]

This was most likely caused by a bad 50 amp receptacle in the pedestal. I would think it would be easier for the campground to replace the receptacle than for you to move to a new site. I once pulled into a site and started setting up and the EMS found a problem. I called the CG office and a repairman came around and changed the receptacle while I finished setting up. They do it all the time. Especially near the ocean which is where we were at the time.

Is the plug on the end of your cord okay? It may need to be replaced, or at least cleaned up with some emery paper.

[W5CI]

I had a short last summer in my 50 amp plug that caused lots of electrical damage, it was from a loose connection in the 50 amp male plug on end of power cord. it killed the converter, microwave,TV,Coffee pot, and elect heating element in the Ref. Yes I had a PI EMS on end of cord but the problem was down stream from that. I Replaced all of the damaged items and all is well. Insurance paid for parts,I supplied the labor.

[flynfool]

The plug definitely needs a little TLC after it's experience! MGR is going to replace 50A plug as soon as rain stops. Nobody wants to go near it in the rain!