Residential fridge/ Solar/ dry camping

[kskgpy]

I have a 2016 GT 329DS with a residential fridge. Because we will be doing a lot of dry camping, I’m looking to get solar to keep the batteries charged so I can keep the fridge running and some other electric items to run off the power we receive from solar through the batteries.
I’ve called several different places to get estimates for installation/ materials. After explaining my situation to the them, I can’t help but get that overwhelming feeling of “I’m going to screw this guy and charge him through the roof.” I’ve received quotes as high as $4000 (6 panels, 2 charge controllers etc. Go Power products). To as low as $1400 ( 2 panels and a more simpler set up). Which I’m told isn’t even close to being enough to do what I want it to do.
I already have a 1k watt inverter solely for the fridge.
Does anyone here have any insight to my predicament? What is a fair price? What is necessary?
Bottom line - solar is necessary for my rig. How much do I need? Am I honestly looking at spending $4000 for a system that will sufficiently supply me the power I need to run my stuff while dry camping?

[clr]

In my opinion you bought the wrong refrigerator for your unit for dry camping. Do not get my comment wrong here, I love a residential type refrigerator but I do very little dry camping. If you plan on doing much dry camping you need a propane type refrigerator.
What you did not state was how many batteries each of the solar plans have included with them. Having a solar arrangement that is large enough to support a residential type refrigerator will be very large. You have to be able to make it a couple of days when the sun does not shine I would say.
One size 27 or 29 deep cycle battery would only last about a day. Of course this depends upon many factors but for reliable operation you may be looking at 6+ GC type batteries and possibly more.

[Fishrsafe]

Here’s what I did to accomplish the goal for boondocking offgrid capability’s. I have since added a 230 watt Zamp suitcase solar panel to supplement our roof mounted 480 watts. Your $4000 quote is not out of line depending on the equipment being used. 4 Battleborn lithium batteries are $4000 without anything else, serious off grid systems can easily go north of $10K in a hurry.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ne-174319.html

Let me know if you have any questions.

Pete

[ependydad]

Step 1, you need to perform an energy consumption audit to determine how much battery and solar power you need. Without that, you're at the mercy for guessing how much battery/solar you need.

Start here and then define your requirements better. Then you can start to determine what you really need:
https://www.technomadia.com/2014/12/...umption-audit/

[kskgpy]

Originally Posted by clr

In my opinion you bought the wrong refrigerator for your unit for dry camping. Do not get my comment wrong here, I love a residential type refrigerator but I do very little dry camping. If you plan on doing much dry camping you need a propane type refrigerator.
What you did not state was how many batteries each of the solar plans have included with them. Having a solar arrangement that is large enough to support a residential type refrigerator will be very large. You have to be able to make it a couple of days when the sun does not shine I would say.
One size 27 or 29 deep cycle battery would only last about a day. Of course this depends upon many factors but for reliable operation you may be looking at 6+ GC type batteries and possibly more.

I appreciate your reply. The fridge came with the purchase of the rig. Of all the research I did on RV’s, the fridge issue is one I didn’t dive in too deep. Lesson learned. However, we plan to keep this rig for a very long time. So investing in a solar system is required. My fear is these salesmen taking advantage of me and my unfortunate situation, trying to sell me more than what is actually necessary. I have four 12v batteries (lead acid). Probably the originals.

One guy told me there are places that will install the solar and it will work, but not the way it should and I wouldn’t even know it. What the hell does that mean? I know it’s very complicated thing to explain.
What I’m gathering is is I’m going to have to bite the bullet (spend money) for a large system to get what I need. And that these guys aren’t BS’ing me?
Now, the question is, what product do I go with. Now that I have confirmed I will be spending a lot of money for a large system period, do all solar work the same and is this guy trying to sell me the most expensive product on the market. (Go power). Are there other products less expensive that perform just the same?? Thanks for all your help. This forum is awesome BTW!!

[formerFR]

why do you say that solar is somehow 'necessary' for your rig?

why is your generator not completely sufficient for charging your batteries? and, you already own it and don't have to spend a dime.

[richp]

Hi,


It probably would be cheaper to ditch the residential unit and install a typical propane RV refer, thereby allowing a much more flexible camping future with a much less elaborate solar system.


FWIW.


Rich Phillips

[formerFR]

you'd spend way more money to remove the residential fridge and replace it with a similar sized RV fridge than you would to simply add a solar package itself!
Have you ever actually PRICED rv fridges? They are crazy!!

[pdqparalegal1]

]Is there a positivately, absolutely a reason a generator won’t work other than SAVING the planet?
Cheaper and easier.
😳🤠

[High Desert]

Originally Posted by pdqparalegal1

]Is there a positivately, absolutely a reason a generator won’t work other than SAVING the planet?
Cheaper and easier.
😳🤠

This is my question, too. I assume you have a generator on board?? When we dry camp (5 - 7 days), we run the generator for about 1 - 1 1/2 hours morning and night to keep the batteries up for domestic frig to run properly and have not had any issues, to date. We also have 4 batteries and a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter. If you use the generator, the only concern I could see would be when you approach the 1/4 tank fuel level and then, the generator will not run to avoid running the coach dry. It is really frustrating that sales people never go into any detail to explain pros and cons of various options when you look at a unit. We considered doing a Zamp solar array, but the price nearly floored me. Ultimately, we may go that way, but for the time being, I'll run the generator

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by High Desert

This is my question, too. I assume you have a generator on board?? When we dry camp (5 - 7 days), we run the generator for about 1 - 1 1/2 hours morning and night to keep the batteries up for domestic frig to run properly and have not had any issues, to date. We also have 4 batteries and a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter. If you use the generator, the only concern I could see would be when you approach the 1/4 tank fuel level and then, the generator will not run to avoid running the coach dry. It is really frustrating that sales people never go into any detail to explain pros and cons of various options when you look at a unit. We considered doing a Zamp solar array, but the price nearly floored me. Ultimately, we may go that way, but for the time being, I'll run the generator

pdqparalegal has a TT, so no onboard generator, like your Tiffin MH. May have a portable generator though.

[tomkatb]

Our 13 cu ft gas fridge costs $2500. The 21 cu ft is $4500.

We have the 13. Big enough for us.

The problem is most folks are plugged in all the time. Don’t care if the fridge quits on travel days.. 4 batteries might make 24 hours. Not in south Texas.

A residential fridge is more like $1000-$1500. solar will likely be a disappointment. Regardless, the generator will be running.

A 100 amp solar panel is maybe 25 amps a day. A Honda 2200 can provide more than 50 amps per hour with your converter.

[jimmoore13]

I don't know how much of a handy-person you are, but this is a DIY project.

~ Panel Kit $540: https://smile.amazon.com/WindyNation...s%2C180&sr=8-3

~ Wire Gland $13: https://smile.amazon.com/Link-Solar-...ateway&sr=8-18

~ Wire about $60: https://smile.amazon.com/Bryne-Flexi...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Since you have a residential fridge, one assumes you have a decent roof. Use good caulk to seal the screws attaching the panels to the roof. Be careful not to hit wires, etc. by asking the manufacturer where and how wires run in your ceiling/roof.

Wire the panels in series/parallel....two panels in series; the other two panels in series; then connect the two sets in parallel. This will reduce current to suit the #8 AWG wire.

Mount the gland to the SIDE of the RV near the roof...not on the roof. This eliminates concerns over leaks and it helps you route the wire into the back of a cabinet. Seal it well where it mounts to the side. Mount it to line up with the cabinet where you'll mount the charge controller(s), and come thru the wall into the back of your cabinet. Choose a spot as close as possible to your battery bank and where you can run the wire out of sight inside cabinets to reach the battery bay or the A-frame if the batteries are mounted there.

Feed the panels to the charge controller. Feed the charge controller DIRECTLY TO THE BATTERY BANK. No muss, no fuss. You don't need any special connections, and you can be plugged into shore power or generator simultaneously with solar charging. Easy as can be.

Do this times two, and have 800 watts of charging for about $1300. Do it times 1.5...a 400 watt kit and a 200 watt kit (each on its own charge controller...for a few hundred less. If you have two charge controllers, you can connect them in parallel in the cabinet then run welding cable to the batteries, or you can use the #8 AWG from each controller to the battery bank as two sets of parallel wires.

If you get it professionally installed, expect to pay for about half a day for two people, but you can do it alone.

The Windy Nation and Renology systems are very good. You can do better, but you'll pay LOTS more. These are solid systems.

I've been boondocking with solar for years and NEVER need to run my generator to charge the battery. My use is very different in a PUP, and Colorado is sunny, but if you match your solar output to weather conditions and loads and battery capacity, you'll be very happy.

Then if the weather sucks for a few days, you can run your generator to charge up only when there's no sun.

[richp]

Originally Posted by tomkatb

A Honda 2200 can provide more than 50 amps per hour with your converter.

Hi,

Yes, but charging a typical RV battery is not linear, and so you won't be putting that much amperage in very long before the tapering off begins.

Regardless, on further consideration, a generator actually might be the most sensible option if campground noise levels are not a foreseeable issue.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips

[jimmoore13]

P.S. Hopefully your rig is equipped with the "go-to" battery bank: 4 x 6 volt golf cart style deep cycle batteries. That battery bank can deliver between 125 and 150 amp hours safely between charges.

A 600 watt panel array can produce about 30 to 40 amp hours per panel per day in sunny conditions. That's 180 amp hours (AH) or more from 6 panels. In less favorable conditions, the panels can still easily produce 100 AH.

You'd be wise to do a full load assessment. Fridge, furnace, lights, TV, stereo, pump, spark ignition for water heater, parasitic loads, and so on.
This CAN be done and has been done successfully, but you need to do your math.

And by the way, if you need to run the microwave or a coffee maker, fire up the genny for 10 minutes. It can handle those massive loads, and it will give your battery a tiny boost while it's on. PUP or not, we make lattes every morning and evening.

Each appliance/load has a rated draw in amps or watts.
This calculator does the conversion.
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/ele...alculator.html
ALWAYS USE 12 VOLTS FOR THE VOLTAGE, because the batteries are the ultimate supply, and they are 12 volts.

Estimate the "duty cycles" of your loads (e.g. fridge might be 30% load cycle, so it's running only 30% of the time), and so on. For example, my little PUP's furnace draws about 5 amps. I run it when we're sleeping, so let's say 8 hours. A PUP is a glorified tent, and the Rocky Mountains are cold at night, so it often runs half of the time. 5 amps x 8 hours x 50% = 20 amp hours. My little group 24 battery can safely deliver 35 to 40 AH. My other loads combined often bring me up to that usage, but not over. My single 100 watt panel Windy Nation system has NO trouble fully recharging the battery the following day.

Crunch the numbers and you'll know what you need. But if you are in the Pacific Northwest, you'll need help to estimate the performance output of solar in those conditions, then size accordingly. Most home solar installer companies can give you an idea of how solar performs on average in their areas.

A single 100 watt panel will produce 7 amps in full sun. From 11 am to about 2 PM, you'll produce 20 AH in full sun. The other 15 AH or so are easy to produce in the morning and afternoon. I NEVER, EVER run out of power, because my solar produces enough, I manage it carefully, and CO is sunny. Adjust accordingly, and you'll have no problems.

[babock]

You can buy 200W solar panels for $185. Don't buy the kits on Amazon. You are way better off doing the system in pieces.


https://www.continuousresources.com/...panel-5-busbar

Use a kill-a-watt meter and measure how much your fridge uses in 24v hours to determine a starting point for how much solar you need.

I have 700W of solar, a Victron 100/50 solar controller and 2 Battleborn 100A batteries. I could actually run a residential fridge with what I have.

Also remember that in 2019, you get a 30% tax credit for all solar installs and that includes batteries for the system.


BTW, the previous poster says a 100W panel will produce 7A. Don't believe it. A 100W panel producing a 14V charging voltage(The way Victron specs it), will produce 7A but only with an MPPT controller and only if its tilted constantly. Flat mounted panels will produce 70% of that so you are looking at 5A per 100W with an MPPT controller. For example, a 5 hour equivalent sun day(look at what your area has during the year) will only yield around 25AH with one 100W panel. With my 700W and flat mounted, I get around 500W peak.


https://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar...n-hours-us-map

[kskgpy]

Thank you for all of your reply’s.
No I won’t replace the residential fridge for a gas/electric one. Not an option. And I don’t want to to have constantly worry about turning on the generator for hours several times a day solely for the purpose of charging my batteries. I don’t really care about the emissions. I live in Southern California, so the sun shines all year long.

Some of the other options are great, but here’s what I have thus far. Quotes on a solar system. For about $4500 - Go Power products - 6 200watt panels, two 40 amp solar controllers and all the other fidgets and gadgets that go with it. Install labor included.
Or around $5500 if I need new batteries.
In your experiences, does this seem to be a fair price? I’m thinking so after all the research I’ve done. I thank you for your responses. They are very helpful.

[babock]

Originally Posted by kskgpy

Thank you for all of your reply’s.
No I won’t replace the residential fridge for a gas/electric one. Not an option. And I don’t want to to have constantly worry about turning on the generator for hours several times a day solely for the purpose of charging my batteries. I don’t really care about the emissions. I live in Southern California, so the sun shines all year long.

Some of the other options are great, but here’s what I have thus far. Quotes on a solar system. For about $4500 - Go Power products - 6 200watt panels, two 40 amp solar controllers and all the other fidgets and gadgets that go with it. Install labor included.
Or around $5500 if I need new batteries.
In your experiences, does this seem to be a fair price? I’m thinking so after all the research I’ve done. I thank you for your responses. They are very helpful.

It's actually not bad depending on the labor and the actual components they are putting in. If you can do it yourself, you can definitely do it cheaper. I would be going for Victron products myself except for the solar panels.


I also could give a rats ass about going green or emissions. I just don't want to run a generator. Between the time and effort lugging around a generator, fueling it, worrying about generator times and the noise, the price of solar is completely worth it. Mine is pretty much hands off. I check my monitor once a day just as a curiosity. It takes me 15 seconds max. How much time do people take setting up generators, buying fuel...


Since you are in so cal in Simi I can show you what I did. I am 20 minutes away in Northridge. Mine is 700W but I could have easily done more if needed. Send me a PM and you can come over and see my install. I am a retired electrical engineer so I put a lot of thought into mine.


Send me a PM if you would like to see what I have. I also have a spread sheet of everything I have purchased in case I ever get audited for my 30% solar tax credit so you can see how much components cost.

[Tax_Man]

Originally Posted by kskgpy

Thank you for all of your reply’s.
No I won’t replace the residential fridge for a gas/electric one. Not an option. And I don’t want to to have constantly worry about turning on the generator for hours several times a day solely for the purpose of charging my batteries. I don’t really care about the emissions. I live in Southern California, so the sun shines all year long.

Some of the other options are great, but here’s what I have thus far. Quotes on a solar system. For about $4500 - Go Power products - 6 200watt panels, two 40 amp solar controllers and all the other fidgets and gadgets that go with it. Install labor included.
Or around $5500 if I need new batteries.
In your experiences, does this seem to be a fair price? I’m thinking so after all the research I’ve done. I thank you for your responses. They are very helpful.

That is real close to quotes I received for a GO POWER Extreme system from three different places. I'm going to do it when the project fund gets to that point. Will be adding 2 batteries to assist with the power.