Shore power Question.

[bubbles]

Originally Posted by NXR

I'm not sure about that because from what I've read in some Suburban manuals that "always on" electric element would burn the electric heater element out if there was no water in it. This manual says there can be two electric switches, one inside and one on the unit itself. That makes more sense to me to avoid a fire hazard. https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/...ban%20V1.3.pdf

From Page 4:

Electric Switches
Main 110V Power Switch
The main 110V switch is operated just like a light switch and most will illuminate when power flows through the switch. If the light switch normally does light up, but is not lighting up now, there may be a loose connection on the back of the switch, or the 110V circuit breaker may have tripped. Note that some newer models may use a rocker switch for electric operation.

Secondary 110V Power Switch
Again, it’s critically important that you check that the water heater is full of water before turning on the 110V heat. If there’s no water, the heating element will burn out very quickly and will have to be replaced. Of course, even if your trailer is in warranty, burning out the electric element is considered user error, which is not covered by the warranty against manufacturing defects.


The picture on Page 5 shows that upside down switch as the secondary electric switch.

If mine is actually wired with that being the only power switch, which I won't know for a month or so, I'm filing an NHTSA complaint. Just because a manufacturer can wire it that way does not mean they should, especially when the manufacturer provides a safer alternative.

Ray

Don't get yourself all worked up. First off the only thing that will burn (open) is the heating element which is enclosed in a water heating tank. This happens all the time by those that forget to set the only switch (outside) to off and applying shore power without water in the tank. Secondly, the NHTSA is only interested in safety issues and this is not one of them. Educate yourself on the way the water heater works and you will see there is no issue. By the way "burn out" does not mean flame in this case (ever had a light bulb burn out?)

[NXR]

Originally Posted by bubbles

Don't get yourself all worked up. First off the only thing that will burn (open) is the heating element which is enclosed in a water heating tank. This happens all the time by those that forget to set the only switch (outside) to off and applying shore power without water in the tank. Secondly, the NHTSA is only interested in safety issues and this is not one of them. Educate yourself on the way the water heater works and you will see there is no issue. By the way "burn out" does not mean flame in this case (ever had a light bulb burn out?)

Our experiences may vary.

I worked on a fire department for 15+ years and responded to several electric heating fires in "fully contained" metal boxes. On some of them the electrical heating element sagged and contacted the metal enclosure also creating an electrical shock issue. I also worked for 35+ years on electrical and electronic equipment.

For the heating element to burn out it needs to pull excessive current and/or generate excessive heat. The latter can be imparted to the surrounding structure (just look at Norcold refrigerator fires) depending on how fast it opens the circuit. I have no idea how fast they burn out. If it's excessive current the protective breaker or fuse should open circuit but that apparently does not happen.

That's supposed to be a 1,440 watt element so at least 12 amps on a 12V circuit or 10 amps on a 14V circuit. It's the same amount of heat as generated by home floor electric supplemental heaters and those do not burn out when not water-cooled but start a lot of fires anyway. Those are usually rated as 1,500 watts.

Unless someone works for the NHTSA they really have no idea what they consider a "safety issue" so I will submit it and let them make the decision. This is a "defective by design" implementation to me if that's how it really works. Your opinion also may vary.

Ray

[bubbles]

Well, OK. Don't think there's a sagging issue here though. And it happens in milliseconds.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by bubbles

Well, OK. Don't think there's a sagging issue here though. And it happens in milliseconds.

The voice of experience? [emoji4]

Hypothetically, what does a replacement cost?

Ray

[CedarCreekWoody]

How does this differ from an electric element in a hot water heater in your home? Most of those can only be turned off at a breaker.

[Iwannacamp]

Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody

How does this differ from an electric element in a hot water heater in your home? Most of those can only be turned off at a breaker.

Nearly all residential WHs are 240vac. Some have 2 4500 watt elements and others 1. There really is no reason for a switch at the WH... I suppose you could easily install a disconnect (at minimal costs) there as it would take a heavy duty switch or a relay and control system, but it wouldn’t be very reliable..

[CedarCreekWoody]

I agree. That is why I don't understand NXRs concern.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody

I agree. That is why I don't understand NXRs concern.

Suburban recommends you drain your water heater when not using it. It also needs to be drained for winterization, which applies to me but perhaps not to you. I've never drained my home water heater except when replacing it.

It's all about mistake-proofing. If the vendor says you can install two switches and they even provide a panel with two switches then not having the second switch is an incident waiting to happen, particularly when there is an inside switch that could mislead people into thinking it turns the water heater completely on or off.

We all know that dealer training of the end user is highly variable as is the end user's background and comprehension. I have an aviation background and am a strong adherent of checklists but checklists are not a substitute for poor design choices.

And yes, I have watched too many videos of RV fires although I've never had to fight one myself.

Ray

[TominVegas]

Check out WMTIRE's post in the forum re the Suburban water heater. It depends on the model of the water heater you have. Mine came with the SWDE model:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ng-185971.html