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Old 02-01-2020, 04:21 PM   #1
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Can someone manage my expectations or is this dealer offer a load of crap?

We're looking at a Coachman Apex Nano 194BHS with the Off grid package. It retails for ~$25,471 from what I can tell. $24,375 w/o the Off Grid option.

Local dealer had this break down:
  • $23,897 retail (odd, I haven't seen that price before)
  • $1,200 prep fee (my ass?)
  • $399 doc fee (again, my ass)
  • $895 WDH
  • $350 Electronic brake control

Grand total: $26,741

I already have a P3 brake controller installed so they took that line item off ($350 though? Geesh). I showed them this listing for $16,877 and I pretty much got the result I was expecting. Sales guy went to talk to his manager and ended up talking to their regional Apex rep on the phone (or so they told me) and about 15 min later came back and said that that price was impossible and Apex would be giving a call to get that dealer scolded. Going on to say freight charges are less and don't know whatever else fees they might be hiding. I get that, fine, it's a starting point though. Using the 20-30% off MSRP rule I've heard talk so much around here that meant ball park should be anywhere from $17,830-$20,377.

He came back again after another talk with his manager with a $25,980 OTD price. I said I wanted to keep it closer to $20k. Guy goes on a small rant about dealer's hurting each other and the internet and how it used to be back in the day, blah blah blah. He said $24,000 and what would it take to get us in it. Ultimately we said we'd think about it, thanked him for his time and then left. In the end he wasn't really that pushy but you could tell he was tad salty.

Here's the thing, I've seen many 193 (the 194's slightly smaller sister) and 194 listings range anywhere from $17-22k. I guess I was under the assumption the dealer had a lot more wiggle room. Definitely gonna buy and install the WDH myself unless the dealer can drastically cut the price or throw it in for free. At this point I'm looking around to neighboring states around NE Oklahoma to see if I can find a thirstier dealer. Guess I could always make a road trip straight to Indiana. My ultimate question is what should I expect from MSRP vs OTD after all the fee bs is thrown in. Is freight baked into MSRP?

Local Dealer's 4 Square offer:




TLDR Local dealer's initial OTD price was HIGHER than MSRP after fees and a WDH and didn't come down much at all!
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Old 02-01-2020, 04:40 PM   #2
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Just the cost of the WDH and brake controller would have me headed out the door and NEVER come back.
You need to check some prices at dealers closer to Indiana.
IMHO, everything about these prices screams Ripoff!
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Old 02-01-2020, 04:43 PM   #3
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I can’t answer your question specific to the RV you’re interested in. I can say that when I shopped for a class C motorhome, the rule of thumb I adopted was that you take the MSRP and take 30% off, then that’s close to the real price. Then the dealer I used in Illinois charged no fees whatsoever. It was one price to the dealer, then you paid the state for sales tax, title, and license plate.

So for example, a $100,000 motorhome would go out the door for $70,000, prepped and full of gasoline and propane, and you would pay TTL to the state.

I don’t have any idea if that 30% discount rule applies to travel trailers. If not, then ignore me.

Based on the quote you have, just from the silliness of the fees added, I’d suggest going to a few more dealers and getting their bottom line prices.
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Old 02-01-2020, 04:45 PM   #4
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We were in the neighborhood of 40% less of MSRP on our Hemisphere 2 years ago. Dont know for sure the average below MSRP price that most units sell for, but think it is around 30%.
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Old 02-01-2020, 05:01 PM   #5
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Let's see, "NE Oklahoma" (call it Tulsa) to Clarksville, IN is 650 miles. Call it a 12 hour drive. So 12 hours in order to save ~$8700, that's $725 an hour . . .
Granted, you still need to drive it home, but you can call that your shakedown trip - 6 hours to Mark Twain National Forest, spend the night, and 6 hours home. Or, if you have the luxury of more time, wind your way home over a couple or three days, either way, it's a win/win!!
Just don't count on that local dealer to be super excited about fixing any warranty issues (not because I subscribe to the "Local dealer won't do service if you didn't buy from them" theory, but rather because they seem to be arseholes!).
I bought my coach from a dealer halfway across the country and it worked out great.
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Old 02-01-2020, 05:01 PM   #6
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Is that a 2020 model?

Have you seen the original MSRP sticker or is this one that the dealer made up?

Are you ordering one or buying one that's already on the lot?

If it's one on the lot and has the original MSRP sticker, then your expectation of 25-30% off that price is reasonable.

Some dealers are never going to give you a reasonable price. I suspect that it has something to do with their purchase price from the manufacturer. Bigger dealers tend to have lower prices (in my research).

It's also possible that the lower priced unit was a 'used' 2020. Some people buy, take it out for one trip and decide to trade it in for a different style.

A Google search for a unit with similar features should give you a better idea of where to buy. www.rvtrader.com can help too.
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Old 02-01-2020, 05:10 PM   #7
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Yes the 194BHS is a brand new addition to the Apex Nano lineup for 2020. I haven't seen a MSRP sticker, just retail listings on various website sale listings. It'll be an order if I go local as the local dealer had no stock. Yes, I know that kinda hurts me cause they'd rather move old stock. On the other hand they'd have a quick and easy sale though w/o taking up inventory space.


For whatever reason I can't search "194BHS" on rvtrader. Their search engine is broken.
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Old 02-01-2020, 05:44 PM   #8
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Search for 193BHS and compare those dealer results to MSRP. While option differences and how long they've been on the lot will affect price, it should give you an idea of the different dealer markups. Go with the one that looks best to you, including distance, if that matters, and ask them for a quote on a special order.
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Old 02-01-2020, 06:03 PM   #9
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Our dealer was not huge and we ordered our Hemisphere.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hawk View Post
We're looking at a Coachman Apex Nano 194BHS with the Off grid package. It retails for ~$25,471 from what I can tell. $24,375 w/o the Off Grid option.

Local dealer had this break down:
  • $23,897 retail (odd, I haven't seen that price before)
  • $1,200 prep fee (my ass?)
  • $399 doc fee (again, my ass)
  • $895 WDH
  • $350 Electronic brake control

Grand total: $26,741

I already have a P3 brake controller installed so they took that line item off ($350 though? Geesh). I showed them this listing for $16,877 and I pretty much got the result I was expecting. Sales guy went to talk to his manager and ended up talking to their regional Apex rep on the phone (or so they told me) and about 15 min later came back and said that that price was impossible and Apex would be giving a call to get that dealer scolded. Going on to say freight charges are less and don't know whatever else fees they might be hiding. I get that, fine, it's a starting point though. Using the 20-30% off MSRP rule I've heard talk so much around here that meant ball park should be anywhere from $17,830-$20,377.

He came back again after another talk with his manager with a $25,980 OTD price. I said I wanted to keep it closer to $20k. Guy goes on a small rant about dealer's hurting each other and the internet and how it used to be back in the day, blah blah blah. He said $24,000 and what would it take to get us in it. Ultimately we said we'd think about it, thanked him for his time and then left. In the end he wasn't really that pushy but you could tell he was tad salty.

Here's the thing, I've seen many 193 (the 194's slightly smaller sister) and 194 listings range anywhere from $17-22k. I guess I was under the assumption the dealer had a lot more wiggle room. Definitely gonna buy and install the WDH myself unless the dealer can drastically cut the price or throw it in for free. At this point I'm looking around to neighboring states around NE Oklahoma to see if I can find a thirstier dealer. Guess I could always make a road trip straight to Indiana. My ultimate question is what should I expect from MSRP vs OTD after all the fee bs is thrown in. Is freight baked into MSRP?

Local Dealer's 4 Square offer:




TLDR Local dealer's initial OTD price was HIGHER than MSRP after fees and a WDH and didn't come down much at all!
I didn't think they still used 4 squares to screw you.


https://www.consumerreports.org/cons...ow-to-beat-it/
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:56 PM   #11
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I didn't think they still used 4 squares to screw you.


https://www.consumerreports.org/cons...ow-to-beat-it/
Yea, if they are using four squares they are morons that think you are a moron.

Run, the are trying to get you at full retail IMO.
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Old 02-01-2020, 09:22 PM   #12
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My 192RBS had a retail price of $27K and change. I was out the door for $18,199. That price included two filled propane tanks, an Interstate deep cycle battery and an Eaz-Lift 1000 WDH. That dealer is ripping you off. I couldn't believe they actually used the 4 square on you! Just type the make and model you want into your browser and see what pops up. You should be getting 30-40% off of sticker. And whatever you do, stay away from Camper World.
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Old 02-01-2020, 10:07 PM   #13
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I got a chuckle when I read the sob story and all the warnings when I went to the dealer locator @ Coachman.

https://coachmenrv.com/dealer-locator




I'm pretty mechanically inclined. Unless it's a huge mechanical/structural issue costing north of $500 I'll probably just say F it and fix it myself instead of having to deal with the hassle of dragging the trailer to the dealer, fighting the warranty process, and then waiting for however long it'd take for them to get to it. So dealer loyalty isn't a selling point at all for me.


Unfortunately I only see one dealer in NE Oklahoma.
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Old 02-01-2020, 10:28 PM   #14
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Just got 38% off our new S Class Solitude bought from dealer stock ... 1st Rockwood 35% we ordered it.... 30% should be minimum I think ... best of luck
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Old 02-02-2020, 01:50 AM   #15
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Yea, if they are using four squares they are morons that think you are a moron.

Run, the are trying to get you at full retail IMO.
X2

If you see that 4 square form, you have three choices.

1) LEAVE
2) Be ready to be taken advantage of.
3) Be overly Prepared with an offer in hand for your trade in, Financing already approved at a known rate and a good idea what the trailer or car you are buying sells for OUT THE DOOR so they can't lie to you about any of those three squares and you can use a loan calculator on your phone to figure out the 4th square.

I just bought a truck last weekend with a guy using that cheaters tool and had him so turned around. I told him we were going to work one square at a time. He asked me what I wanted/needed my payments to be. I told him I don't buy vehicles based on payments, I buy off price.I got him to quote me a huge discount (7K off 58.9K) off the MSRP first, wrote it in the square and we both initialed it. I took a picture of it when he "went to talk to the guy who test drove my trade in".

He then low balled my trade and I informed him (and showed him the offer sheet I had from another dealer) I had to buy my trade for 5K more than what he offered me. I asked for my keys back and told him they were not going to screw me out of my trade. He went to talk to "the man behind the curtain" and I told him, don't come back without my keys because you insult my intelligence one more time, I'm out of here. Got him to come up to within 1K of that written offer. We initial again and I took a picture again.

Then the Finance Manager came out and shewed the salesman away. He starts by saying 5.5% was the best they could get me with my 750 credit score. When I told him I already had my credit union approve me for up to 60k at 4.3%, They were not happy campers as I had them right where I wanted them. Making a reasonable profit but not screwing me. No add on's except tax/title and a $200 doc fee. I feel like the little guy won this one.

Best part is I love my new truck and saved 3K I thought I was going to have to put down to get where I wanted to be. Instead, I've been accessory shopping all week. BAKFLIP MX on order, Running boards going to be installed tmrw.
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Old 02-02-2020, 03:26 AM   #16
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I think your expectations are right on. Walk away from that garbage.

Stick to tour guns you will get what you want.

I would not worry about warrenty work threats either if they pull that on you. Dealers suck at it for the most part. Better off getting pre-approved from FR and use a mobile rv repair or independent shop. They do better work faster and dont break more things then you brought it in for usually. This dealer sounds like that type.
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:47 AM   #17
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Tulsa RV website:
Price: $25,101
Save: $7,602
SALE PRICE: $17,499
That's more than 30% off MSRP, or retail as the dealer called it.
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Old 02-02-2020, 07:00 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by CZNEDY View Post
Tulsa RV website:
Price: $25,101
Save: $7,602
SALE PRICE: $17,499
That's more than 30% off MSRP, or retail as the dealer called it.
yep there it is ... you will find all over the country ... Google many results
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Old 02-02-2020, 08:03 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZNEDY View Post
Tulsa RV website:
Price: $25,101
Save: $7,602
SALE PRICE: $17,499
That's more than 30% off MSRP, or retail as the dealer called it.
Well, I guess you COULD buy it in Tulsa, but then you'd miss out on that 12 hour drive to Clarksville, IN and the shakedown trip on the way back!!!
Sorry, I should have checked the internet before offering that nugget of advice!
Sounds like you not only dodged a bullet, you can now justify all those first year mods . . . go forth and camp!!
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Old 02-02-2020, 10:46 AM   #20
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Just as another data point, not that I totally believe this website. Sometimes I use this link just to see https://seedealercost.com/recreation...e/manufacturer


According to this site, a 2019 193 MSRP is ~$17K. I guess they didn't have 194's in 2019, or they didn't have the data for them. If you believe the "invoice cost", which leads one to believe that's the cost the dealer pays for the unit, there's not much markup. The invoice cost is probably true, but Im betting dealers don't pay invoice cost all the time.


$25K is a ripoff for sure. I would just move on. But, hope you have another dealer near by that can do work on it if need be.


Mike
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