Need help with Math please

[Mn_Mark]

Ready to give one of these two dealers a deposit:

1) 2012 2304s $13500 out the door, local dealer

2) 2015 2304s $17500 out the door, new w/warranty, 5hrs drive away

option 1 appears very clean, low use, comes with a WD hitch (no ladder).
option 2 has the extra exterior doors and a ladder.

I can't figure out which is the better deal? I do know I never planned on spending much over 13k, any idea what either one would be worth in a year of two from now?

Thanks!

[oxcamper]

#1 will be most likely close to the 13.5. #2 will be close to the same amount in 6 months on a trade in.

The main question is which one can you afford.

warranty is 2 yrs for FR products, do you need or want the extra door? Our Hemi came without the ladder. Since I go on the roof maybe 2x / year, an aluminum extension ladder (already in the garage) works fine and saved me a couple of $$.

WD hitch can be up to $800 if the 2015 doesn't come with it.
See if the dealer will deliver the 2015 at no cost -- to make the sale.

[B and B]

Mark,
The 2012 no matter how clean is old. The 2015 gives you warranty and second year warranty for 150 bucks.

2012 worth 8 -10 k plus more issues
2015 worth 15 -15 k still has warranty

[rana]

13.5 is quite high for a 2012.. no matter how clean it is. I would keep looking, try to get them down to more like 10.5-11k, or blow the budget and go for the 2015.

[Herk7769]

Just my opinion here but it all depends on the used unit.

My 2010 is still in great condition with many upgrades. If I had to sell it I would expect a premium price. Due diligence will show value in a used camper and many new units "off the lot" can have issues as we sometimes see here.

HOWEVER, a new camper has that "new car smell" and you just can't put a price tag on that. (That new car smell may be formaldehyde though )

[Mn_Mark]

I just received a price drop on a used 2013 2304s ten hours drive away, down to $13300 otd.

I think the only logical way to do this is go by NADA values (low retail, no options)
2014 2304s = $17000
2013 2304s = $15350
2012 2304s = $14000
2011 2304s = $13000 (extrapolated since 2012 was first year for 2304s)

Using this method, in one years time, the new 2015 should be worth $17000, the 2013 worth $14000 and the 2012 worth $13000. I am going to tack on $500 to the one 5 hours away and $1000 to the one 10 hours away, for the trouble of picking them up.

One big unknown is the real condition of the 2013 10 hours away. Too bad, because it looks like the best value. Especially when factoring in money lost to interest. Still a really tough choice! I hope I choose the "good one" in the end.

[rana]

You kind of have to take NADA prices with a grain of salt. Ie., I just looked up my 2012 rig and NADA shows it listing at $4000 more (low retail) than I actually paid for it in 2012... and $5500 more in average retail.

Back in 2012 I looked at the same model at a number of dealers and their prices only varied by $1200... so it wasn't like I just found an earth shattering deal.

Short story.. don't expect a rig you pay $17500 for today to be worth $17000 a year from now.

[johng4706]

From what you have said, both trailers are 5 and 10 hour drives away. I assume you are relying on photos, etc. While the 2012 unit is cheaper what isn't being shown and no warranty. If you can afford the 2015 unit would be the way to go. New trailer, no concealed damages and a warranty. Work on the dealer, try for a better price and a good W/D hitch. Mention that by going to him involves a 1, 000 mile trip each way.

[chaslorr]

Last year we nearly bought a new 2109S. After dragging our heels a little because of the cost we found the identical unit only 1 year old that had been used 3 times for sale privately. After close inspection we jumped on it and saved over $4,000 dollars plus the tax on that amount. It also came with the WD hitch. We have been very happy so far.

[mark0224]

Look it up on Kelly blue book or on NADA . You can usually talk them out of more on the used this time of year tack on 2000$ for an after market warranty because used you want one not knowing what the previous owner did with it.

[VT Skier]

We looked for two yrs initially we wanted used at about 1-2 yrs old so we went on Craigslist looking between VT,NY,NH and MA we looked at more than I can remember and one of the first questions I had was did anyone smoke in the unit? On more than one occasion after seeing pics and being assured that it was in super great condition and no one had smoked in it we drove up to 4 hrs to go see it and most times you would walk in and think what is that smell or it reeked like stale smoke. That's when we decided new was for us we narrowed it down to one that we totally liked then went online shopping, we found one 2 hrs away and one 5 hrs away the furthest had a good price right online the other had the "our price is to low to show on the Internet" thing so I called them and they wouldn't give me a price over the phone so I told the salesman I'll email you the online price that you need to start at. Meanwhile the other dealer had come down another $1,500 dollars and sent me a quote I forwarded that to the closer dealer long story short we saved over 36 percent over boths MSRP prices went with the closer guy. And every time they tried to sell us something my wife would say is it a better price than on Amazon....Lastly when I asked the salesman about the second yr warranty for $150.00 he said it doesn't exist so I forwarded him my email from Rhonda at FR haven't heard back on that ...LOL

[The_Rhino]

IMO some folks on Craigslist want what they owe, not what their TT is actually worth, so you have to play hardball & shop-around...

In 2014 we bought a 3 year-old Tracer 3150 & WDH from a nearby dealer for $8K less OTD than the best sale/wholesale OTD price we could find for a new one w/same upgrades & WDH. The dealer price was about the same as we could find on Craigslist & the dealer agreed to throw-in a WDH, pressure test & re-caulk the unit, & thoroughly test all systems (PDI) before we drove off the lot.

Since the dealer was just 10 minutes from work, I purposefully dropped-by in heavy rains to check for leaks, etc... I spent about 2 hours looking behind every access panel, etc. for hidden defects, water damage, mold, etc. The TT was in pristine condition - except for some loose molding & cabinet doors.

After we agreed to buy the TT, they fixed all of the stuff on my list & did the pessure test & re-caulk before our 2 hour PDI. During the PDI they adjusted all slides, the awning, replaced the battery, CO2 detector, filled the propane tanks, etc. I videotaped the whole 2.5 hour PDI & they even showed me how to operate the slide with an electric drill if a motor failed. They took time to adjust my WDH properly for traveling loaded vs. empty off the lot. Very thorough! Nice folks.

IMO the WDH & extra services are worth at least $1000, so if I were buying FSBO on Craigslist, I would want to take an extra $1000+ off. After all, if those folks had to trade-in their unit, the dealer wouldn't give them near what they are asking....

BTW, we are almost to the day our warranty would have expired had we purchased new... 30+ days of camping & no issues. Online listings are still about what I paid a year ago, so IMO after the first 2-3 years the prices just gradually go down vs. the big up-front hit when you buy new...

[itat]

Although you might get lucky, I would assume that on a used trailer you'll have to put at least $1,000 into it to fix a problem the previous owner or dealer isn't telling you about. Figure that into you decision on which is the better value. It's a hard decision. Take your time. Good luck.

[Mn_Mark]

You guys have some great advice, I think the NADA values were all a bit high in retrospect. The used offerings are just really few and far between right now, if I can hold out a month or two I bet there will be a bunch of 1-2 year old units coming on the market due to people upgrading. I tried to expand my scope outside of the Rockwood 2304s and Flagstaff 23bhs, did a ton of research yesterday, even went to look at at a 2504s (seemed a little flimsy compared to the ultra-lite though). I have to give it Forest River for packing in the options and value in the ultra-lite 2304s, especially the 2015 model with its extra exterior storage doors.

Perhaps the only other units that are comparable, are the Heartland North Trail 22RBK (resale with this brand worries me) and the KZ Connect 220RBK. I saw a local dealer just received a used 2015 KZ 220RBK and has slapped a $18k sticker on it, so I might have a look ($15k otd on that one might be alright). But then I looked the KZ internet forum, and it was pathetic compared to this one

[geotex1]

Mn_Mark, use the new math! It'll get you the new one every time!

My first calculator was a slide rule, and I have been known to still use it! LOL!

The 2304s is a nice camper all the way around. Too bad they discontinued it. You may face the need to go or get off the pot soon if set on it because you just have dealer inventory now. I agree the used marketplace will be flooded this year if you have been studying sales through the show season! Heck, Craigslist is loaded over here and going past several dealers in daily travels their lots are full of used units. One dealer local to me was offering a "foul weather camper" discount incentive on used units - come in during the lousy winter weather and $500 and 5 nights camping at a popular shore campground.

Good luck making your decision!

[00buck]

Having done it twice, I would never again make a long trip to look at a used RV. Pictures don't tell the whole story. Owners and sales people, to be polite, have a way of putting a gloss on the condition of a unit.

As to NADA, it's worse than useless. Most often too high, sometimes too low, but almost never right. Look at RVT, RVTrader, Ebay, etc. and knock 10 to 20 percent off the asking price.

If you know what you are doing, or know somebody who does, a used unit is the way to go. You can save a hefty chunk of change and get a unit where someone else had to deal with the little issues that plague new RVs. That said, I agree with itat. If you buy used, set aside a little money to deal with the unexpected.

Good Luck!

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by geotex1

...My first calculator was a slide rule, and I have been known to still use it! LOL!...

So was mine and I still have the 10" Post Versalog I bought in Sep 1958 when I started college.