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Old 02-24-2024, 12:07 AM   #1
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New 2022 Wolf Pup 17 jg

Just put money down on a new this new, 2022 Cherokee Wolf Pup 17jg. From my research it seems like a descent price. They are adding an additional $200 fee for dealer set up etc. Let me know if this is a good price or not.



It has the following options:

ADVANTAGE PKG
ADVENTURE PACKAGE W/SPARE TIRE
CAMPING PKG
JUICE PACK
NEBRASKA STATE SEAL
SAFETY PKG
WOLF PUP LIMITED PKG
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Old 02-24-2024, 06:25 AM   #2
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I think it sucks.


I would not pay a dime more than $16.5K for that trailer all in and out the door, taxes, prep, whatever. And it also would be a 2024 for that price, not a 2022 that may have been sitting on the lot for going on 3 years. If your paying the number shown in the pic you put up you're leaving $ on the table.The MSRP they list must have been pulled out of the sales managers posterior. $35 K for a single axle stick and tin trailer? Dealer cost/invoice on that is @ $14K, or less. It's special that they want to tack on $200.00 prep fee, when they post up a banner on their website that says NO Hidden Fees and specifically says "Dealer Prep" ROFLMAO. That would be my first clue which would be pushing me to tell ole AC to pound it before I walked out the door.

RV sales have went down the sewer in the current economy.
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Old 02-24-2024, 07:28 AM   #3
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I has taken delivery of one of these in 2021. I brought it back and demanded my money back 3 days later because it had dangerous flaws in the design that could not be corrected. Don’t know what they ever did with it or if FR ever changed the design.

When you had the cooktop lit which was mounted in the counter above the furnace, if the furnace came on , the furnace blower would suck the cooktop flame down into the cabinets because there was no return air path for the furnace. The c-o detector would sound in about 30 seconds.

The dealers answer to this was don’t use the cooktop when the furnace is on. To which I called bull.

I ended up buying a bigger unit and with threats of legal action the dealer gave me a full credit towards the purchase of that unit.

If Forest River has corrected that problem this could be a nice little unit.
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Old 02-24-2024, 09:11 AM   #4
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When you had the cooktop lit which was mounted in the counter above the furnace, if the furnace came on , the furnace blower would suck the cooktop flame down into the cabinets because there was no return air path for the furnace. The c-o detector would sound in about 30 seconds.

That is the stuff nightmares are made of. An interesting design issue I would not have considered when looking for a TT. Learning something new everyday from this Forum.
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Old 02-24-2024, 09:34 AM   #5
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The furnace intake and exhaust are on the exterior of the trailer. There's no way it should have pulled flames from the stove down, unless the exterior intake was blocked. As shown in this pic, the top is the intake for the furnace.
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Old 02-24-2024, 09:39 AM   #6
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The furnace intake and exhaust are on the exterior of the trailer. There's no way it should have pulled flames from the stove down, unless the exterior intake was blocked. As shown in this pic, the top is the intake for the furnace.
An RV furnace pulls air from the outside to burn in its combustion chamber... but it draws in air from the inside to heat and blow back into the inside. The statement "there was no return air path for the furnace" refers to the air drawn from the inside to heat.
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Old 02-24-2024, 09:50 AM   #7
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I think it sucks.


I would not pay a dime more than $16.5K for that trailer all in and out the door, taxes, prep, whatever. And it also would be a 2024 for that price, not a 2022 that may have been sitting on the lot for going on 3 years. If your paying the number shown in the pic you put up you're leaving $ on the table.The MSRP they list must have been pulled out of the sales managers posterior. $35 K for a single axle stick and tin trailer? Dealer cost/invoice on that is @ $14K, or less. It's special that they want to tack on $200.00 prep fee, when they post up a banner on their website that says NO Hidden Fees and specifically says "Dealer Prep" ROFLMAO. That would be my first clue which would be pushing me to tell ole AC to pound it before I walked out the door.

RV sales have went down the sewer in the current economy.
Thanks for your opinion and input. Not trying to defend the dealer but according to your numbers they pay $14K and you wouldn't pay more than $16.5K including tax and all fees. So you're saying the dealer should sell this at cost or at the most make $500. Remember, tax, license, transfer fees, etc are going to be over $1600. It would be impossible for them to keep the lights on at $500 per unit. This isn't 1975. The $200 "hidden fee" wasn't hidden. It's on their website and the salesman told us about it right up front. J.D. power has the retail MSRP listed at over $38,000 so for the dealer to list it as $35,000. Which one is correct? I don't know. https://www.jdpower.com/rvs/2022/for...6618007/values
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Old 02-24-2024, 10:30 AM   #8
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The price someone pays for something is their business. I would not judge them for it, as it represents the value it brings to them. As for the air draw issue, it's very possible to see how the draft created by the furnace could cause an imbalance in the enclosure that houses the stove and furnace units. Any negative pressure caused at the surface of the stove could certainly draw the flame downward.


I have personal experience with this in a newly built house heated by an oil burning furnace. The house was so tight from the house wrap and high performance windows that when the furnace burner shut off residual oil fumes would be drawn back down the chimney and into the basement. You could smell the oil fumes in the basement. The furnace installer made numerous adjustments and changes including different oil spray nozzles and the problem was still there. A chimney expert suggested cracking open a basement window by about 1/2 inch. Sure enough, the problem went away. Installed a dedicated outside air vent to the furnace and all was well.
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Old 02-24-2024, 10:34 AM   #9
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I think it an odd coincidence that in your other thread you were all set to purchase that 'new' trailer that has been sitting on the dealer's lot for about 3 years and it suddenly sells to someone else as soon as you call and commit....but wait, he can get your another 'new' 2022 with no problem, you just need to fork over $750 for shipping.

More importantly, that furnace concern seems legit and would certainly be a deal-breaker for me, if true.

I know what it's like to get excited about a purchase like this and to try justify it and ignore 'warning signs' - only looking at the great deal you think you are getting. Just my .02, but I'd take a few days to think on it further.

Good luck!
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Old 02-24-2024, 03:28 PM   #10
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You are correct. I'll be taking a closer look at it when it comes in. It should be very simple to install a return grill (and duct if necessary) in the cabinet enclosure.
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Old 02-24-2024, 04:16 PM   #11
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An RV furnace pulls air from the outside to burn in its combustion chamber... but it draws in air from the inside to heat and blow back into the inside. The statement "there was no return air path for the furnace" refers to the air drawn from the inside to heat.
To be clear. The combustion air for the furnace is drawn from outside the camper and the exhaust from the furnace is discharged from the same fixture as someone earlier pointed out.

The problem with this camper was that the air from the furnace that is blowing into the living space had no way to get back to the furnace to be recirculated to the living space.

This created a negative pressure inside the cabinets where the furnace and the cooktop were housed.

This negative pressure caused the flames from the cooktop to be drawn down into the cabinets causing excessive C-o from the cooktop and a negative pressure on the furnace itself.

This caused a back flow from the furnace exhaust as well pumping C-o into the living space.

Itís well established that the return air for any heating appliances needs to be in the order of 2 to one to the output air to eliminate any negative pressure.

This is a deadly flaw in the design. I am mystified that this design flaw still exists and hasnít been addressed.

I got out from under my situation and got what I wanted. I figured this would be addressed with forest river by the dealer but I guess not.

If anyone at Forest River is paying attention you need to address and recall these units. Itís all fun and games until the ambulances and the lawyers show up.
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Old 02-24-2024, 04:21 PM   #12
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You are correct. I'll be taking a closer look at it when it comes in. It should be very simple to install a return grill (and duct if necessary) in the cabinet enclosure.
Why should you have to be concerned with this. You shouldnít have to modify anything.
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Old 02-24-2024, 04:39 PM   #13
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Almost forgot. If you open the mini fridge door the problem goes away. But that again. Doesn’t address the problem.
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Old 02-24-2024, 05:20 PM   #14
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Thanks for your opinion and input. Not trying to defend the dealer but according to your numbers they pay $14K and you wouldn't pay more than $16.5K including tax and all fees. So you're saying the dealer should sell this at cost or at the most make $500. Remember, tax, license, transfer fees, etc are going to be over $1600. It would be impossible for them to keep the lights on at $500 per unit. This isn't 1975. The $200 "hidden fee" wasn't hidden. It's on their website and the salesman told us about it right up front. J.D. power has the retail MSRP listed at over $38,000 so for the dealer to list it as $35,000. Which one is correct? I don't know. https://www.jdpower.com/rvs/2022/for...6618007/values

I said $14K or less, and its most likely less. Every dealer I see is stuffed to the gills with model year leftovers, interest rates are the highest they've been in now long?


I don't know where you got the JD Power numbers, but I come up with this. Anyhow it seems you already have your mind made up as you appear to want to argue about anything others post so good luck.
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Old 02-24-2024, 07:47 PM   #15
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It isn't really a concern since we never use the furnace anyhow since the Suburban furnaces are fairly loud. In the past we've always used an electric heater and will be doing the same with this one. In fact, I'll probably pull the furnace out and install a drawer in the opening.
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Old 02-24-2024, 07:52 PM   #16
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I don't know where you got the JD Power numbers, but I come up with this. Anyhow it seems you already have your mind made up as you appear to want to argue about anything others post so good luck.
I only argue with people who don't know what they're talking about. You know, like people who make statements like "I don't know where you came up with the J.D. Power numbers" when it's obvious where they came from as I posted the link to their website.
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Old 02-24-2024, 08:12 PM   #17
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Your mind is made up so thatís itÖ.you have successfully justified price as well as the furnace issue so all is good.

Since you donít need to use the furnaceÖ.at least without opening the fridge door, you should be good!
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Old 02-24-2024, 08:38 PM   #18
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I came here asking specifically about the price...on the section of the forum specifically for just that. I get responses with anecdotal stories of the furnace. Responses about high interest rates. Responses about it sitting on a dealer lot for three years. Oh, and one uneducated response regarding price. Not once did I ask about the quality of the unit. It's a Forest River product....it's not high quality and I know there will be issues. But this is not the part of the forum for that question.
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Old 02-24-2024, 08:42 PM   #19
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Strange

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Originally Posted by MGD1961 View Post
To be clear. The combustion air for the furnace is drawn from outside the camper and the exhaust from the furnace is discharged from the same fixture as someone earlier pointed out.

The problem with this camper was that the air from the furnace that is blowing into the living space had no way to get back to the furnace to be recirculated to the living space.

This created a negative pressure inside the cabinets where the furnace and the cooktop were housed.

This negative pressure caused the flames from the cooktop to be drawn down into the cabinets causing excessive C-o from the cooktop and a negative pressure on the furnace itself.

This caused a back flow from the furnace exhaust as well pumping C-o into the living space.

Itís well established that the return air for any heating appliances needs to be in the order of 2 to one to the output air to eliminate any negative pressure.

This is a deadly flaw in the design. I am mystified that this design flaw still exists and hasnít been addressed.

I got out from under my situation and got what I wanted. I figured this would be addressed with forest river by the dealer but I guess not.

If anyone at Forest River is paying attention you need to address and recall these units. Itís all fun and games until the ambulances and the lawyers show up.
This is very strange! There is generally no ducting for return air on the Suburban furnace. They just box in the cabinet the furnace is sitting in and put a grille on the face of the cabinet. The impeller fan that circulates interior air just draws from the cabinet interior.

Were you able to see the furnace? I imagine that the furnace cabinet was designed with a gap (no door or drawer) and somehow the gap was closed off. Do you have any pictures showing that area?
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Old 02-24-2024, 08:54 PM   #20
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The suburban furnace will draw from its cabinet enclosure. The combustion air source from the exterior is also open to this cabinet. All the ones I've worked on in the past had openings in the floor or through the cabinets to allow for return air. If the cabinet is sealed it's plausible that the airflow could be pulled from the range above it, but would be easily rectified.
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