RV Wholesalers Lakeview OH and other notes

[WolfWhistle]

This is a follow up report. I searched this forum and asked if anyone had experience buying from them. There were some negatives but mostly positives. I appreciate all who have helped me here at this great forum. Here is my take and hope it will help someone.

I looked for several months for a toy hauler that would suit my needs and decided that the XLR 29HFS Hyperlite was the one. I stopped at a couple FL dealers and kicked the tires, looked at the options and at almost every TH built and finally decided. I didn't like their prices! Then I set about trying to find the best deal. I found RVW; and am still 90% sure buying from them saved me several thousand dollars over any FL dealer. What surprised me is the claimed MSRP on these things. It seems to me, a dealer can make it what they want it to be. One dealer has it at $41K another might be $38K and another $51K. I paid $28,254 out-the-door with FL taxes paid... and will pay a little interest since I will keep the financing for 13 months. If you finance with them... you MUST keep a balance for at least 12 months. You pay it all off early and they WILL take back the discount for financing.

Looking at their website I found one that had some of the options that I wanted, and decided other options were not important and decided to contact them and put money down on this very one. They require $1000 from a major credit card to hold the unit; this is not refundable; and my electronic signature on the sales order. I talked to a lady who is no longer with them, who was very nice, and then a young man, who was also nice and also no longer with them. Keep in mind these are sales people and once sold, they pretty much are done with you, but not this young man.

I talked to another woman who really was selling their extended warranty plan and arranging the financing (to get an additional $1500 discount I had to finance), I first said yes to the warranty then had a change of mind and told her no. I signed documents on-line and NEVER heard the final outcome of whether I was 'approved' or not, or what the interest would be. She never called back after multiple messages left in her "Voicemail Jail".

The unit was finally built; picked up by RVW; and sitting in Lakeview OH about 4 weeks after the original promised date. Which, for me wasn't an issue. It had been freezing in OH during this time... and it turned out to be a 2015. The walk-through went fairly well and revealed no surprises and everything work as built and as designed as far as I could see at that point. They added some fresh water, so I could test that part and everything checked out good. Even the tire pressure was right and the wheels torqued. Note below.

So, how about the paper work? When I said down with the guy to sign the papers, I find out they want another $1870. I had called 2 days earlier and specifically asked if they needed any more money and they said, NO, the $1000 already paid was all they needed. So, a bit frustrated, I gave the the money to him in cash. After a couple of trips back to reprint what I was to sign, the purchase agreement didn't credit me for the money I JUST paid him, so off he goes again. It turns out that the purchase agreement also is flawed in that the selling price and the Florida taxes collected didn't add up. They showed the $1500 discount for financing as a trade-in, the title work isn't taxed, but document fee is... which posed a slight problem when I finally titled in in Florida. So, that worked out only because the title clerk here in Florida was willing to use the price shown on the title. RVW collected 6% Florida sales tax and I had to pay the extra local tax, which I knew had to be done.

They charge $45 for title work (@#$%^#@!!!!) and $250 for document processing (nothing more than additional profit, of course). This wasn't a surprise, I knew this before agreeing to buy it.

So, what about the way they do the title? It is completely unnecessary and wrong for them to title this unit to me, a Florida resident in Ohio. It cost me $90 to change to a FL title, completely unnecessarily. All an out-of-state dealer has to do, is to put together all the paper work, along with a check for FL sales tax and mail to my nearest FL tag agency. Then I go there and complete the title work.

I knew they were going to title it in OH, but if I had really known how this worked, I probably wouldn't have bought from them. There are other discounters out there, but not what I want to talk about at this time. They did put a OH temp/paper tag on. By the time I got the OH title from RVW (@#$%^&*!), the temp tag had expired, but I got a nice thank you from the owner of RVW for buying from them.

If you finance, you of course, have to prove this specific unit is insured and have your insurer show the lien holders name and address. They use Bank of the West. At first they couldn't find where our insurance agent had faxed it to them, but finally it appeared.

To the question would I recommend them to my friends, I would say reluctantly yes But, with this caveat: if you are sure the lower price is really lower and there isn't a dealer that can nearly match the price that is physically closer to you, I recommend them. If they were only a couple of thousand dollars lower, I would buy local or closer; for more than that drive to OH, but be careful.

Don't buy LP from them... they are 50% higher than stores down the road.

There is a huge issue among XLR 29HFS owners that has recently raised its ugly head. The dealer(s) website shows the GVWR and cargo capacities to be 1300 lbs higher than what my yellow sticker shows and what until only recently the FR website also showed. The claim was that the 29HFS could carry 4017# of cargo... now its 2700#. The brochure that I am looking at, and that I picked up at RVW also shows this higher number. The dealer info is still wrong as off today. I feel stupid and that I got screwed. I didn't check the sticker... it was the last thing on my mind.

Forest River makes the claim that they can change the specifications without notice, but it is still a dirty trick. I am not sure I would have accepted this unit, if I had been smarter... AND LOOKED. I was also looking at a Carbon, which can haul around 4000# of toys and stuff and was what all the information I had showed the 29HFS could do. So, I got a unit that won't do what I was sold, and RVW could have sold me a more expensive unit.

The only thing that has fallen apart is the microwave mount. This is due to poor workmanship. I will try to be brief, since this has nothing to do with RVW, but the microwave was not installed properly; as it was not sitting in the cabinet, but held up by only the screws in the surround. It wouldn't have taken many more bumps and the thing would have fallen out of the cabinet; certainly destroying it and doing serious damage to the cook top and floor. The metal surround and/or the size of the cabinet was wrong, depending on how you look at it; so I sat it down on the floor of the cabinet, screwed the bottom screws in and screwed the top screws in with washers that I picked up at a store. I haven't done anything about this yet, but will fix it myself. Not big deal, but shows you doing it right is secondary to getting the units out of plant as quickly as possibly. The unit held up pretty well for around 3000 miles on some of the worst roads the northern winter can produce.

I love the recliner sofa my SO hates the kitchen and lack of a place to eat. I like the toy garage and ramp, but would love it if FR made the very back of floor angle down, like some do in the larger THs. I have to routinely crank the tongue jack all the way up to keep the bike from scrapping, but its a small price to pay and I can use the exercise. I have a folding tongue jack foot coming in from Amazon to help me jack it up.

Note from above.....Wheel lugs. Take them serious about torquing wheel lugs on a new unit at certain miles. I stopped at 100, 200, 300 and 400 and each time they needed it. I took some tools with me. Do not over-tighten!

[Radio]

I bought from them in July 2008. Delivery went well.

They advise you to get everything they say to you "in writing" which to me is email, and bring that to the closing. Each time they would promise something I had them write me an email outlining the promise.

There were several points of disagreement at closing, one of which was the finance guy promised a free 2nd battery installed if I financed with their bank. When he started to back pedal on the arrangement, I produced a printed email from him outlining the details. He honestly could not remember making that promise. Problem solved and I got the free battery. All points of disagreement were solved by me producing a printed email. And all this was done in a friendly non-confrontational manner.

The issue with them is you talk to so many people, who in turn may not talk to each other, and all of them are trying to make you happy and close the deal. RVW will stand behind any promise their people make as long as you get it in writing.

[WolfWhistle]

I was on the road when asking if they needed more money and probably... no, should have emailed confirming weight capacities... my oversight. Who would have suspected that one 29HFS GVWR would be considerably lower than another 29HFS... RVW didn't do this... it would have been nice if they had kept abreast of FR changes and informed their buyer, me. Doing it over, if they couldn't sell it to me without issuing an Ohio title first, I should have refused to buy. I knew this going in, but should have better informed. I have to remind myself that I saved at least $3K... maybe $6K. So, the 90 dollar extra charge just gives me something to complain about :-) I would buy from them again, but hopefully would be more careful and be a little smarter. We learn from each other and hopefully don't have to learn everything the hard way.

[ddurnell]

WolfWhistle, thank you for taking the time to share your experience with our company. If you ever need anything at all please do not hesitate to contact me. I am very excited for you to experience how well we can take care of you in Florida all the way from Ohio. I also wanted to explain the title. Ohio law requires us to title ALL units we sell into Ohio. They do however not make you pay Ohio sales tax. Sorry for the inconvenience as well as the extra costs you incurred. If you need anything at all please let me know- ddurnell@rvwholesalers.com David Durnell

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by ddurnell

WolfWhistle, thank you for taking the time to share your experience with our company. If you ever need anything at all please do not hesitate to contact me. I am very excited for you to experience how well we can take care of you in Florida all the way from Ohio. I also wanted to explain the title. Ohio law requires us to title ALL units we sell into Ohio. They do however not make you pay Ohio sales tax. Sorry for the inconvenience as well as the extra costs you incurred. If you need anything at all please let me know- ddurnell@rvwholesalers.com David Durnell

Mr Durnell, thanks for the reply and comments. I am not sure that the Florida DMV supervisors I spoke to are right, and since I can't find the source document stating that this is a law in Ohio, can you provide me a copy of that statute specifically as it applies to an out of state resident buy from you, an Ohio dealer? Also what, if anything, is being done about the substantial reduced GVWR on the model I bought and the fact that brochures and on-line information is still wrong? Thanks, Wolf

[ddurnell]

Wolf, unfortunately there is nothing I can do about changes at Forest River. All we can do is point out the issue and ask them to correct it and get things together. I wish I could control it and hope you understand that I cannot. Simply put, to maintain a dealership in Ohio we have to do all titles in Ohio. I will ask the local BMV to get me something my staff can forward to you. Thank you again and let me know what else I can do for you- David

[Aussiecat]

We're scheduled to pick up our unit on July 21st, and we're Praying for no unexpected surprises. We're driving from Ft Myers Florida. We're excited and slightly nervous.


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[ddurnell]

Aussiecat, thank you for the business, I look forward to meeting you on July 21st. Please look me up when you get here! Safe travels to Ohio! David

[mjones12]

Originally Posted by Radio

I bought from them in July 2008. Delivery went well.

They advise you to get everything they say to you "in writing" which to me is email, and bring that to the closing. Each time they would promise something I had them write me an email outlining the promise.

There were several points of disagreement at closing, one of which was the finance guy promised a free 2nd battery installed if I financed with their bank. When he started to back pedal on the arrangement, I produced a printed email from him outlining the details. He honestly could not remember making that promise. Problem solved and I got the free battery. All points of disagreement were solved by me producing a printed email. And all this was done in a friendly non-confrontational manner.

The issue with them is you talk to so many people, who in turn may not talk to each other, and all of them are trying to make you happy and close the deal. RVW will stand behind any promise their people make as long as you get it in writing.

Great advice about the emails.

[WolfWhistle]

FYI. Ohio BMV is the higher authority, but it is the various county clerks office is the agency that processes the forms brought to them. I have searched their Title 4505, titling and 5739.02 and it seems even the tax is collected improperly, but if I paid the tax and got credit, who cares. I asked 2 counties why this practice is like it is, and for something in writing supporting what they do. In both instances, I was told to get a lawyer... or get a lawyer or contact BMV (WT.... Heck). I sent BMV state registrar an email. Lets see what happens. I don't expect to get the money back to perfect the title from and Ohio to FL title ($90 unnecessarily), but if this is wrong, they need to stop doing it, if they are right and there is a law on the book... then so be it, but show it to me, how hard is that?. Florida DMV supervisors are not Ohio law experts, but they have never seen this done before. In fact, I have bought vehicles from two states and it didn't work this way. A non-resident buying in FL is not issued a FL tag unless they are moving there, or are going to use it in FL for some exended period of time; but if taking the vehicle out of the state... No FL title.

[ddurnell]

WolfWhistle, I am also trying to get a copy of the law, if it exists, but I do know that we have been told repeatedly that we HAVE to do all titles in Ohio. The customer is then able to take that title and switch to their home state. Also, there are 7 states that we are required to collect sales tax for on an RV. They are: Arizona, California, Florida, Massachusetts, Michigan and South Carolina. We cannot do a title for anyone with an address in one of those states without paying 6% tax that is forwarded to the customer's home state. I am trying very hard to get something that proves this for the both of us. It would save us a lot of time and money if we did not have to do all of these titles. I will post anything I can find as soon as we get it. Thanks again for your business- David

[WolfWhistle]

David,
I have been on Ohio websites looking of the answer to the Ohio titling question and have seen those states you mentioned and how taxes are collected for them and all the others. What I saw conflicts with Title 5839.029 of the Ohio code... specifically (B),(1), (a) and (b). I paid the tax through you, paid no more tax than I should have and got credit for what I paid, so the tax isn't an issue. Like I mentioned and am probably beating figuratively to death... Title 4505 is the vehicle title code and I can find no place, nada, that addresses my situation. It strongly implies that it is talking about Ohio residents or vehicles that are owned by non-residents but will be used in Ohio. It is like when the law was written they didn't consider someone buy in Ohio but removing it and titling / registering it in another state. It is funny how much wording can be found about HOV or APV, or special vehicles as they relate to non-residents, BUT, non-commercial cars, trucks, and RVs are not mentioned. I do hold out hope that the registrar will answer me. Until then, if you hear something out, please let me know. Thanks for checking. I need to call you, as well.

[West Cactus]

Originally Posted by ddurnell

WolfWhistle, I am also trying to get a copy of the law, if it exists, but I do know that we have been told repeatedly that we HAVE to do all titles in Ohio. The customer is then able to take that title and switch to their home state. Also, there are 7 states that we are required to collect sales tax for on an RV. They are: Arizona, California, Florida, Massachusetts, Michigan and South Carolina. We cannot do a title for anyone with an address in one of those states without paying 6% tax that is forwarded to the customer's home state. I am trying very hard to get something that proves this for the both of us. It would save us a lot of time and money if we did not have to do all of these titles. I will post anything I can find as soon as we get it. Thanks again for your business- David

Hi David,
I was recommended to you from someone that has sent numerous people there! I put the downpayment yesterday with Rose and hope to have a new Forester by the end of the month. I will be driving it to Arizona. I know you take the sales tax but will there be any more expense on my part either at closing or in AZ? I want to have everything ready. Does it come with a full tank?

Thanks!
Marc

[doodler]

If you finance, you of course, have to prove this specific unit is insured and have your insurer show the lien holders name and address. They use Bank of the West. At first they couldn't find where our insurance agent had faxed it to them, but finally it appeared[/QUOTE]

When I bought fro RVW I was pre-approved with Bank of the West. Most of the time when you are pre-approved you can still get a lower interest rate. So I had them check, and Bank of America had a lower interest rate, and that is who we used to finance. And yes I did have them send the lower interest rate to me in writing.

[ddurnell]

West Cactus, thank you so much for your business! If you are flying in please look me up when you arrive, I would love to meet you and personally thank you for your business. If you ever need anything at all please don't hesitate to contact me. ddurnell@rvwholesalers.com thanks again- David Durnell

[ddurnell]

doodler, thank you for your business and comments. It is always good to get everything in writing and we encourage our customers to always do so. After all we are all human and mistakes do happen. Thank you again and if you ever need anything please don't hesitate to contact me. David Durnell

[WolfWhistle]

They (or we) are getting tax law and title law mixed up. The Ohio registrar (BMV) also doesn't get it, they sent me tax information (code 5839) when I told them specifically the tax isn't the issue. I was thinking maybe I wrote to them in Greek, but I checked and no it was English :-) There is a tax agreement between OH and several states. Although the tax law (5839 of the code) seems to conflict with the agreement, the point is moot. We pay the same tax. RVW collects the tax, and when you go to get your tags in FL, you get credit for what they collected... end of story. HOWEVER, no one can show me a law on the books that says it has to be titled in OH... to an OUT OF STATE buyer who does not intend to use in OH and is going to title it in his or her own state. We are not different countries in Europe, for example, this is the UNITED States of America, last time I checked. 4505 of the code deals with titling and I have read it and can't find any reference to the dealer providing a title to an out of state buyer... only for snowmobiles and HOV is it clearly addressed that the buyer takes the vehicle out of the state without getting an OH title. Why would privately used vehicles be different? It should be the same for vehicles of which a travel trailer is considered the same. I am 99% sure this practice is wrong, but what can we do. If I was doing it over again, I would tell RVW to show me the law or I would take my business elsewhere. If the law says it gets an OH title, so be it. That might change things and probably would... rather quickly. It is only about $90 to pay for the title transfer, but it also causes delay. You can not title in in FL until you get the OH title in the mail and that is also wrong. So, if you buy from RVW expect to get a useless OH title and have to wait for it... and waste money needlessly changing it to a FL title. The more I think about it the less sense it makes.

[ohio xlite]

I work at a ford dealership here in ohio and all vehicles in this state must be titled when sold even if owner is out of state. The bmv has nothing to do with titles in this state you would need to contact the clerk of courts for the county that you are dealing in witch I believe is Logan county in lakeview. Our bmv only does registrations title offices are at the county government buildings. On a related note this makes attractive to buyers in other states because they just need to transfer title not get thus avoiding paying sales tax in some states nj being one.


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[WolfWhistle]

ohio xlite, thanks for the useful information. When you say, BMV has nothing to do with it... I suppose you mean, a dealer doesn't contact BMV directly. But, they have everything to do with it... administratively... from Ohio Law - 4505.02: "The registrar of motor vehicles shall issue rules as the registrar determines necessary to ensure uniform and orderly operation of this chapter and to ensure that the identification of each applicant for a certificate of title is reasonably accurate. The clerks of the courts of common pleas shall conform thereto." So, although the county clerks perform all that is necessary to apply for title, the Registrar, as supported by state law, has authority to allow or disallow titling. The law is the 'source document' and it seems to me and in my case, nothing in the law exempts the titling to an out-of-state buyer, thus by default, titles are applied for and issued. However, the Registrar failed to answer my question, rather explained how taxes are to be collected, which I already knew, and had pointed out to them that I knew. The county Clerk of Courts for Lakeview didn't know why they issued me an Ohio title and could not refer to the law that governs them. IMO, it is like the framers of the law didn't consider an out-of-state buyer taking the vehicle out of Ohio to be titled - this may be the case. I still say, it is ridiculous to have to title a vehicle in a state that it will not be used in, and that it is immediately removed from; to only be retitled in another state in which the owner is resident of. As screwed up as Florida government is, someone there considered this possibility and Florida law doesn't require that a Florida title be issued. I'll get off my soapbox now. Ya'll have a nice day.

[Aussiecat]

Thank you for your diligence however it appears we're at the mercy of bureaucrats. We will be going through the same process in a couple of weeks. Common sense doesn't seem to matter.


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