Tim's Guide to buying anything.

[mdstudey]

Great advice. My husband is not a big wheeler dealer, but I am my fathers daughter. He (father) can makes a salesman cry. When ever he walked into the Dodge dealership where he lives, the manager would automatically say I will take this one.

I am not as good at it as he is or from the sounds of it as some of you are, but it is so satisfying at a car dealership to pick up the keys of my old car and walk out. The first time I did this my husband said the guy was in a state of shock. My husband was so proud of me. So ladies, be sure to tag team the salesman with your partner. Two may be better than one. Thank you for taking the time to write this. Now I am going to go out and buy a house.

[Crabman]

Some great points here. I will add that not having a trade in the mix makes the negotiating process much easier. They can try a whole slew of shell games with price when you involve a trade in the game. My thought is if you are attempting a trade, do not mention it until a bottom line price is reached on the new unit. Then mention the possibility of a trade to see what they are truly offering you for it. In most cases of course it pays to sell your unit privately but that's not for everyone.

[rmac04401]

When I bought my last brand new car my daughter was around nine and was asking why it was taking so long. I explained the whole process and then told her when daddy says we are leaving don't say anything and walk to to door with me. I said most time we will not even get through the door before he comes after us.

That time came were the salesman and manager said they could not go lower, I got up said thank you for your time and said ok kids lets go. Walked to the door and went to open it and salesman came running saying ok we can do it for the price you want.

[BandJCarm]

I keep thinking of things.

Questions that you do NOT want to answer at all (my answers in parentheses):
-"Will you be trading in anything?" (I dont' have any idea yet)
-"What do you want for your trade?" (IF I trade, more than you'll offer)
-"Is this cash or finance"? (Yes, it is one of those. But I can get financing anywhere)
_"If finance, what payments are you looking for?" (Duh. ZERO)

Get bottom line $$ in WRITING, signed. Then say "Well, I just might trade in X vehicle at that price". Or "I might finance for that amount if you can beat 2%" (they did this my current truck, after advertising 6%).

If I trade, my favorite line is "I am NOT going to give you retail price for your truck, while you give me wholesale price for mine. You pick one, either one".

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by Crabman

Some great points here. I will add that not having a trade in the mix makes the negotiating process much easier. They can try a whole slew of shell games with price when you involve a trade in the game. My thought is if you are attempting a trade, do not mention it until a bottom line price is reached on the new unit. Then mention the possibility of a trade to see what they are truly offering you for it. In most cases of course it pays to sell your unit privately but that's not for everyone.

Agree. I almost never trade. You just get taken to the cleaners that way. But if you have a trade, do this:

At some point the salesman will ask you if you have a trade in. Tell him, yeah, I have a camper, but I will be selling it myself. Do your best to dismiss the idea of a trade-in in the salesman's mind. Conduct all your negotiation and arrive at your deal. THEN, casually ask him, "Just for kicks, what will you give me for my old camper". Now they are locked in to the price for the new one you just agreed to. They cant inflate your trade and then tack it on to the price of the new one to make it seem like you are getting a good trade in.

You will probably actually hear a tiny clap of thunder as his butt-cheeks slam shut. (I love that sound). But fully expect a super-lowball value on your trade. Then, and only then, can you can start the negotiations on your trade. And the best part is, he is STILL locked in to the purchase price on the new one. It's hugely doubtful you will get what you want for your trade, but it never hurts to try.

Tim

[rmac04401]

Another time I asked salesman lowest out the door price, and he was at MSRP. So I said thank you very much and walked out. He called two days latter and said if I wanted to negotiate for the car. I politely told him I was already driving my new car because this other salesman really wanted to sell a car. You could hear his mouth drop on the other side of phone.

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by rmac04401

Another time I asked salesman lowest out the door price, and he was at MSRP. So I said thank you very much and walked out. He called two days latter and said if I wanted to negotiate for the car. I politely told him I was already driving my new car because this other salesman really wanted to sell a car. You could hear his mouth drop on the other side of phone.

Yep.

My father taught me that one. He would ask "What is your absolute bottom dollar BEST price?"......and whatever they said, he'd say "Oh, no thanks, that's too much" and at that point he'd walk away. He always made sure they had HIS business card though.

Then they'd call back, and offer a better price. He'd say "What? No thanks, I don't deal with liars. I asked your BEST price and you apparently lied. Now it's different. How can I know when to trust you?" and he'd hang up.

The manager always, always, always, called him back at some point, and gave him dang near wholesale price.

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

I keep thinking of things.

Questions that you do NOT want to answer at all (my answers in parentheses):
-"Will you be trading in anything?" (I dont' have any idea yet)
-"What do you want for your trade?" (IF I trade, more than you'll offer)
-"Is this cash or finance"? (Yes, it is one of those. But I can get financing anywhere)
_"If finance, what payments are you looking for?" (Duh. ZERO)

Get bottom line $$ in WRITING, signed. Then say "Well, I just might trade in X vehicle at that price". Or "I might finance for that amount if you can beat 2%" (they did this my current truck, after advertising 6%).

If I trade, my favorite line is "I am NOT going to give you retail price for your truck, while you give me wholesale price for mine. You pick one, either one".

I should have mentioned it in the original post, but NEVER discuss monthly payments with anyone other than the finance guy AFTER you arrived at a deal.

Some people will casually mention, "oh, around $350 a month" and pretty soon wind up with $20k more camper than they should have with payments at $390 for 15 years. In the eyes of a salesman, anything under $500 is "around $350"

Only discuss purchase price with the sales staff.

Tim

[moff34]

Wow, that was an awesome write-up with extremely sound advice. I was fortunate to learn negotiating techniques from my Dad who was a master.

I would only add one more thing which has been extremely helpful for me in keeping all the numbers straight so I know exactly what that bottom line is through the course of the negotiations. I use a spreadsheet that I built some years ago where I put in the numbers for the RV/Vehicle/Home I am buying with spaces for all of the various options and fees. The spreadsheet also has the calculations built in to figure the monthly payments, all of which is continually updated as options are added or dropped, interest rate, term, or down payment changes, keeping me completely up to date with both the out-the-door price and the monthly payment. It even figures out the license and registration fees for my state, which the dealer had wrong, and I corrected, on my last trailer purchase. I also found it to be a bit of a benefit in the negotiations when I pull out my laptop and start punching in numbers - seems to intimidate some salespeople when I have the updated numbers quicker than they do.

As Tim said, people find out when you are good at this and ask for help. In the past 4 years I have assisted various relatives in purchasing six new cars, an RV, and a home using my handy little spreadsheet. Fun stuff.

[pdqparalegal1]

My "art of the deal" is; I'm sure that is a great price for someone, but it's way above what I can afford. We need a way better number.

[rwmurphy]

Tim,
I've always used your method to buy any big ticket item. I purchased a 2013 Toy Hauler in the winter of 2013/14 I negotiated a $60,000 camper down to $35,500 over a 3 month period with the owner intervening in the last week I also requested he throw in a 17000 WDH. Fantastic fan. 2 slide awnings and a second battery he caved in when I thanked him for his time and my wife and I were walking to our truck. This was a small dealership. I had my mind made up on a price and I was not changing it. The saleman did tell us he never dealt with someone that long to sell a unit and that business was very slow due to the cold winter and all the snow we had. So, Made one visit to the dealership made a offer when I got home by email negotiated for 3 months by email till the owner called me come come and see him. Done deal when we started to walk. Stick to your guns it can be done maybe not all the time but you can surely find there low end price.

[old guys]

Thanks Tim and also all the great follow up points from others. This was one of the best posts I have read in a long while. It almost makes me wish I was buying another trailer so I could try some of this stuff. I just know I won't be able to find this post again if I ever decide to buy another unit and I don't think we will be able to negotiate a better deal when the kids decide we should be in a seniors home. Old Guys (Brian and Joanne)

[rrfullmer]

Thanks. We are starting to look and this was a good reminder!

[Philos3]

"Sometimes the PDI is a separate charge."

The word PDI means nothing to something to a lot. One way to deal with it is to get a list of what they are going to do, then redo it yourself after they do it, then expand and do stuff they didn't do. Lots of PDI lists around.

Best advice is not get caught up on specifics and arguing about what is included or not, but just negotiate on the out the door costs. Sure, you want a list of the options so you know what you are getting.

Note: if you are buying used from a private party and the price seems high, it probably is because the seller is upside down on a loan and asking you to bail him out of his foolishness.

[Philos3]

Appreciate the concept of how to determine the lowest dealer price.

[ChrisAndGarren]

this is great advice - when we went to buy our motorhome and then our toad last year we already knew what we wanted and my husband and I play "good cop/bad cop" with them. I'm the "YAYAYAYAYAYAYAY" girl for a bit, until they start talking pricing, then I'm the "NOPE" girl.....and whenever they want to talk to my husband directly he shrugs and says "she needs to be happy"

They pretty much hate us at the end......not that I give a rip.


Garren

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Sometimes the PDI is a separate charge.
And that's OK as long as you are comfortable with the out the door price.

Makes no difference if you pay 15k for a unit and the PDI is free or if you pay $14k for the unit and the PDI is $1k. Same price either way.

As for the RVIA sticker...
I've never seen or heard of anyone being able to hold the manufacturers to the so called 'inspection program to monitor compliance' which RVIA represents. Let's be honest... we've all seen some pretty shoddy work come off the line. I don't know who is following through on the inspecting or demanding compliance but it isn't RVIA.

But the manufacturers 'supposedly' have to abide by the so called rules to be able to manufacture and sell the units, so they simply pass that cost of being a member on to the buyer.

Thanks to Tim for the post.
It should certainly help many.

For the PDI, I don't think anyone should have to pay for it. It is called a Pre-Delivery Inspection for a reason. To make sure every thing is in usable and operable condition and nothing is damaged. It should be top priority for the dealer to make sure the product he is selling is in top notch condition. If not he should make any minor repairs himself or send it back to the manufacturer for repairs. It should be part of doing business as a dealer or manufacturer.

However, if the dealer is selling something he took in trade then he should charge a fee for the PDI. But you know they already take that into consideration at the time of trade-in. That is why they thoroughly inspect any trade-in before the give a value on the trade-in.

The RVIA sticker should be part of the manufacturer's costs of doing business.

Does either of the dealer or manufacturer add the price of a local or state business license to everything they sell. I don't think so or it would be very expensive to buy even the least expensive item ever made.

Just my 2 pennies worth. Sorry for the rant.

[doc73]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

For the PDI, I don't think anyone should have to pay for it. It is called a Pre-Delivery Inspection for a reason. To make sure every thing is in usable and operable condition and nothing is damaged. It should be top priority for the dealer to make sure the product he is selling is in top notch condition. If not he should make any minor repairs himself or send it back to the manufacturer for repairs. It should be part of doing business as a dealer or manufacturer.

However, if the dealer is selling something he took in trade then he should charge a fee for the PDI. But you know they already take that into consideration at the time of trade-in. That is why they thoroughly inspect any trade-in before the give a value on the trade-in.

The RVIA sticker should be part of the manufacturer's costs of doing business.

Does either of the dealer or manufacturer add the price of a local or state business license to everything they sell. I don't think so or it would be very expensive to buy even the least expensive item ever made.

Just my 2 pennies worth. Sorry for the rant.

That was my PDI point / expectation. I always felt I should not be paying for something they SHOULD DO. Along the same lines.. I did not pay to have the dealership wash my new truck or removed the plastic protective stuff or whatever... It is part of the part of selling something, unless you buy as is.

[SidecarFlip]

Lifetime hitchball lubrication sounds like a worthwhile addition to a purchase.

Right now, my DW is the designated lubricator and she needs replacing. Too much whining.

One thing that I don't believe Tim mentioned (I read the whole first post and did some chuckling to myself) is...

If you finance your purchase (after you have agreed to the best price), finance it for the longest possible term (at the best rate of interest of course( unless like some folks you pay cash, cash is king in negotiations, but if not, stretch the finance term out as far as possible...and then pay it off early. Myself, I make triple payments on my unit. Rule 53s applies to any and all retail installment loans made in this country and Rule 53s basically states that you atr only liable for the interest accrued during the life of the loan, IOW, pay it off early and the interest on the loan is less, the interest paid only applies to the shortened term of the loan.

I like using someone else's money myself, especially when interest is calculated only on the term the funds are used.

I took a 10 year loan on my unit but I'll have it paid off in less than 5 and only pay interest on that term, not the entire loan term.

Second good thing about an extended loan is the lower payment. If for some reason funds are tight in a particular month, a reduced amount is easier to deal with. Eating a huge note every month can really hurt if for some reason funds are tight that month. Unforseen events can impact your ability to pay and we all get in a bind ocasionally, fact of lif,

[doc73]

Originally Posted by SidecarFlip

Lifetime hitchball lubrication sounds like a worthwhile addition to a purchase.

Right now, my DW is the designated lubricator and she needs replacing. Too much whining.

One thing that I don't believe Tim mentioned (I read the whole first post and did some chuckling to myself) is...

If you finance your purchase (after you have agreed to the best price), finance it for the longest possible term (at the best rate of interest of course( unless like some folks you pay cash, cash is king in negotiations, but if not, stretch the finance term out as far as possible...and then pay it off early. Myself, I make triple payments on my unit. Rule 53s applies to any and all retail installment loans made in this country and Rule 53s basically states that you atr only liable for the interest accrued during the life of the loan, IOW, pay it off early and the interest on the loan is less, the interest paid only applies to the shortened term of the loan.

I like using someone else's money myself, especially when interest is calculated only on the term the funds are used.

I took a 10 year loan on my unit but I'll have it paid off in less than 5 and only pay interest on that term, not the entire loan term.

Second good thing about an extended loan is the lower payment. If for some reason funds are tight in a particular month, a reduced amount is easier to deal with. Eating a huge note every month can really hurt if for some reason funds are tight that month. Unforseen events can impact your ability to pay and we all get in a bind ocasionally, fact of lif,

I was wondering that.. I have not tried to get a loan since our 2014 but our credit union only did up to 5 year loans for "autos" as they considered the trailer. We did the 10 year thing through the dealer and are well ahead on when we "need" to make any payments.