Coach battery: Charging or not, charged or not ???

Pedrodasdas · 07-13-2013, 12:05 PM

First; thank you everyone for previous post on the subject. I have printed everything and will go thru a complete inspection of the system in a few days.

What I have learned is that the coach batteries should charge when the vehicle is running.

Here is the story now.

We went dry camping for a week-end. To make sure I had enough power left in the coach batteries (I have 2), I pressed the control panel battery check once in a while and, everytime, the four lights went on telling me the battries had plenty of charge left.

On departure, sunday afternoon, retracting of the awning was really slow. When was the time to get the slide-out in, pffff, just move one inch and that was it. I checked the control panel and, again, the 4 red lights were shinning bright and clear.

My first idea was to start the vehicle and to retract the slide-out Starts well, no problem but no extra power even if I waited 15 minutes to let the alternator charge the coach batteries. No Niet Nothing, not even another inch.

My second idea was to run the generator but the batteries were so low that it had no enough power to start it.

I finally solve the problem by autoboosting myself, using the Sprinter battery and booster cable.

The question is: What those 4 red lights are exactly telling me ????? Can it be they all not connected to the right place ?

cfsoistman · 07-13-2013, 12:16 PM

Great question! We've had our coach for almost 7 years and not once have I ever touched that button and seen anything but 4 lighted red dots. We added an Inverter with an inside control panel which shows battery voltage and amps being used etc. Even when the control monitor showed the batteries below 11 volts the little red lights still all lit up.

JLeising · 07-13-2013, 03:57 PM

I have been communicating with Brania on a similar issue. I think it is the "where is the converter" thread here in the Solera forum.
While the coach battery will charge from the vehicle alternator while you drive, I understand the coach battery is charged at a LOW priority vs the chassis battery (from the vehicle alternator). Not at all surprised that 15 minutes engine running had essentially no effect on the coach batteries. Brania reported, as I remember, no effect after a 600 mile drive - that drive should have charged the coach batteries.

Dry camping for a weekend would significantly discharge my batteries - probably down to "two lights" on the convenience panel. In fact, just sitting with no load and battery disconnect switch turned "off" for a few days will drop it to "three lights". I believe four lights indicates "charging" or "just off charge and not stabilized yet".

Of note, I have on occasion mis-read my convenience center. I believe the labels for the buttons are below the buttons. As a result, when I am pressing the button, the label I tend to read is the (incorrect) one above the button, as my finger is covering the "correct" label.

Sounds to me like a voltmeter would be a good investment for you - you could hook one up to a 12 volt "cigarette lighter" plug (available from any auto parts store) and check your chassis battery voltage without having to open up the step. You could use the meter to confirm your convenience panel lights, and see if your various charging circuits are working. Measured voltage should go up when charging.

Good Luck -

Jim

2012WhiteSolera · 07-13-2013, 09:05 PM

I purchased a cigarette lighter volt meter after doing reseach on battery technology for about $12 bucks, and it gives you more information than the 4 light panel indicator. I also found this site informative. htt://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm Sounds like you batteries might be on their last leg. Good luck.

Pedrodasdas · 07-17-2013, 07:08 PM

I have two deep cycle 12 volts and considering to change for 4 X 6 volts !

**Herk7769** · 07-17-2013, 07:31 PM

Great question.

Here is the answer. The lights represent the DC Voltage of the CAMPER; not necessarily the coach/camper battery. If you remove the battery and run the engine or plug the camper in you will get 4 lights.

4 lights - "C" - CHARGING = a camper voltage above 12.7 - 12.85 volts means there is "Charging" Voltage available to the camper.

If you unplug the camper or shut down the engine:

As the camper's voltage decays below 12.7 volts, the top light will "go out" and you will have 3 lights - "G - GOOD" lit until the voltage decays to 12.1 - 12.15 volts when the 3rd light will go out,

When the 3rd light "GOOD" goes out at 12.1 volts, you can see you have lost 50% of your coach battery's capacity (and it should be recharged to avoid permanent loss of total amp hour capacity). With the 3rd light out, only two lights remain "F - FAIR"

As the battery continues to be discharged, at 11.6 - 11.65 volts (permanent damage to the plates is occurring), the "F - FAIR" light will go out. EVEN THOUGH the last light is working, your battery is essentially dead (20% capacity remaining).

The last light "L - LOW" will stay on until the battery voltage hits 6 volts (from a 12 volt battery!). While it "MAY" recharge at this low voltage, the number of times it can be recharged from this very low state has been significantly reduced. Battery life will be a fraction of the life possible.

Depth of discharge is the number one reason for battery replacement.
This final graph plots recharge cycles versus depth of discharge. The number of expected recharge cycles (battery life) is based on no lower than 50% capacity discharge before recharge.

DebbieMH · 07-18-2013, 05:56 AM

Herk7769 -
Wow! Thank you. You probably saved me a boat load of expense for batteries. I was under the misguided idea that you should discharge your batteries completely every so often. Probably got that from old cell phone technology (but I don't remember exactly where I got that) - I've discharged my brain batteries too often! Again, Thanks so much for the info!

**Herk7769** · 07-18-2013, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebbieMH

Herk7769 -
Wow! Thank you. You probably saved me a boat load of expense for batteries. I was under the misguided idea that you should discharge your batteries completely every so often. Probably got that from old cell phone technology (but I don't remember exactly where I got that) - I've discharged my brain batteries too often! Again, Thanks so much for the info!

Rechargeable NiCad technology will develop a "memory" if connected to the charger all the time. That will reduce the capacity of the battery when used without the charger.

The reverse is true of Lead Acid technology. Deeply discharging a Lead Acid "Deep Discharge" battery will shorten the number of possible times this can be done considerably.

With a "Starting" battery, a deeply discharged battery' maximum cycles can be reduced to ONE because they are designed to be recharged immediately and completely after EACH use (to start the engine). If they are killed, they may never take a charge, or if they do they will fail you on a cold winter morning.

Pedrodasdas · 07-21-2013, 06:13 PM

Thank you herk7769, this is the most complete answer anyone could ask for.

So, in resume, if my board was showing 4 lights with my engine not running and not connected to 110 volts AND no more power in my coach batteries, it means something is wrong in my panel, right ?

**Herk7769** · 07-21-2013, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedrodasdas

Thank you herk7769, this is the most complete answer anyone could ask for.

So, in resume, if my board was showing 4 lights with my engine not running and not connected to 110 volts AND no more power in my coach batteries, it means something is wrong in my panel, right ?

Well, no.

(nothing is ever simple is it)

4 lights means that the system voltage is above 12.7 volts.

A freshly charged battery can hold that voltage for quite some time with no or low load. Let sit for 24 hours with nothing drawing power and you will have 3 lights as the surface charge slowly equalizes with the lower charge deeper inside the thick lead plates.

You can "accelerate" the loss of surface charge by stressing the battery (run a slide in or out). Once the surface charge is drawn off, the true state of the battery's charge will be revealed.

**Herk7769** · 07-21-2013, 06:37 PM

Oops, I see you said that there was NO battery power either.

If you have no battery power and no 110 power being supplied; you will have NO lights lit because there would be no source of 12 volt power to power the panel LEDs.

If you had a dead battery and no 120 volt AC source to power the converter, it would depend on how dead is dead. As long as your 12 volt battery is putting out at least 6 volts (pretty darn dead) there will be ONE light.

If there are 4 lights lit (in the above situation) you have a fried control board.

Here is a wiring diagram and a troubleshooting guide for your system

Pedrodasdas · 07-21-2013, 08:19 PM

Exactly, but after I tried to enter the slide out (with no success). The 4 lights were still shining bright and clear !

Think I will follow the advice to buy a igarette lighter 12volts tester.

Pedrodasdas · 07-21-2013, 08:23 PM

I don' know if you got all the diagrams for the Solera but if you do, I'm trying to locate the fuse for the power step, I put another post earlier with no answer.
It the wire that provide current when the ignition is turn on.

**Herk7769** · 07-21-2013, 08:49 PM

Ah, motorhome. So, there is another dimension to consider.

There is a battery control center in the motorhome that does not exist in travle trailers and 5th wheels. There is an over ride that will connect the truck's starting battery to the camper. There is a relay that controls whether the truck battery is connected to the coach batteries or not. It is ONLY supposed to close when the truck engine is running to charge the house batteries. If it has failed closed, the truck battery will power the camper with the engine off.

This is a bad situation since you can kill your starting battery.

This is the generic information for the Georgetown Battery Control center and isolation relay. While it does not apply directly to your camper, the circuitry may very well be similar enough to find and fix your problem.

I have a Solera diagram from 2010 that might be helpful (attached).

Pedrodasdas · 08-10-2013, 08:58 AM

Things are getting worse instead of improving.

I'm at home now and pluged on 110 volts but the batteries kept on discharging and now everything is really dead.

I know 110 volts is working cause the microwave works fine ! I might use the microwave inside light to lighten my way, ha ha.

Any idea of a step by step check up, what should I check first ?

I'm not very good in machanic but I'm willing to give it a try before I go to the repair shop $$$.

Pedrodasdas · 08-10-2013, 02:49 PM

Finally opened the cargo area and pulled out the converter: Niet, Kaput, no voltage at the exit. Bought another one, waiting for it. Simple but expensive repair. Dealers around (Province of Quebec, Canada) wanted $349 plus 15% tax for one. Finally found a brand new one on EBay for $102 !

Now, still have to find why the coach batteries won't charge on the alternator, related to the converter or not ???

DebbieMH · 08-10-2013, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedrodasdas

Finally opened the cargo area and pulled out the converter: Niet, Kaput, no voltage at the exit. Bought another one, waiting for it. Simple but expensive repair. Dealers around (Province of Quebec, Canada) wanted $349 plus 15% tax for one. Finally found a brand new one on EBay for $102 !

Now, still have to find why the coach batteries won't charge on the alternator, related to the converter or not ???

Sorry, I can't help. All this is way above me! Wish you luck, and hope you get to the bottom of the problem.

cousin01 · 08-10-2013, 07:33 PM

Just converted to two 6 volt batteries. No room in my 2011 for four batteries.

And I had to raise the cover up an inch to accommodate the higher profile of the golf cart batteries.

JLeising · 08-10-2013, 11:11 PM

Pedrodasdas - Here are some steps I would take if I had this problem. Tools needed - a digital voltmeter (Cheap one from auto store, walmart, etc is fine) and an automotive 12 volt battery charger (borrow one from a friend? all "shade tree mechanics" have at least one). Also a screw driver (flat blade) to remove the battery caps. Distilled water and a small funnel or other means of refilling the battery water.

1) Take the top step off to expose the batteries. On my unit - two thumb screws to remove the step.
2) Visually inspect the batteries and wires under the step. Anything obvious? Side or top blown out of a battery? Wire hanging loose not connected to anything? Anything melted or burnt looking? Yes - trouble shoot and repair. No - go to next step.
3) Assuming you have "flooded deep cycle" batteries, they will have removable caps. Use the screw driver to remove the caps and check the water level in the batteries. Are any of the cells dry? Refill any low cells with distilled water to the bottom of the cell water level indicator (minimally above the plates).
4) Measure the battery voltage. See the chart Herk posted above. Determine the status of the batteries from that chart.
5) Assuming the batteries are low, connect the automotive battery charger and let it charge for a couple of hours or more. Check the battery voltage with the charger attached. The voltage should fairly quickly move up to 12+ volts. If after some time the charger either "kicks off" or can't raise the battery voltage to 12+ volts, either the batteries or the RV are drawing too much current - shorted. If that is the case, next step is to disconnect one side of the batteries from the RV (with the battery charger turned off or disconnected to avoid possible sparks). Again, try to charge the batteries. If they will charge with the RV disconnected - problem is on the RV side. If not, potentially shorted batteries.
6) Assuming the batteries take a charge, disconnect the battery charger and try some of your 12 volt items in the RV (e.g., turn on some lights). Do things work normally? No - trouble shoot the RV.
7)Connect the voltmeter to the batteries. DO NOT connect the battery charger. Plug the RV in while observing the voltmeter. Does the voltage increase when the RV is plugged in? Yes - battery charge circuit in converter is working. No - converter is not charging the batteries.
8) Unplug the RV from shore power. Start the vehicle engine while observing the Voltmeter. Does the voltage increase? May take a while, due to the designed preferential charging of the vehicle battery. If the (house) battery voltage never increases, the vehicle charge circuit is not charging the house batteries.
9) If neither the converter nor the vehicle are charging the batteries, check for a problem in the circuit under the cover on the side of the steps - again, cover held on by two thumb screws on my unit. Not that this cover says to disconnect the batteries before opening. Again, visual for obvious problems. Check the fuses in there.

Safety - batteries like those used in RVs generate potentially explosive hydrogen gas when they are charging. Turn off the charger before making connections (to avoid a spark). Be conscious of this when making or breaking any electrical connections to the batteries. MAK NO SPARKS! If a battery has cracked or exploded, sulfuric acid is released. Don't touch it.

Good Luck -

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