10k License restrictions

[grayfox]

Originally Posted by frank4711

Towing over 26,000 here in Fl you need CDL.

PA requires the Non Commercial CDL for towing anything over 26,000 lbs GCW.

[SeventyGTX]

The crazy thing is, you can't pull a 30ft 5th wheel if its over 10k, yet can pull a 35ft travel trailer as long as it is under 10k. The fiver is much easier than the TT to pull and a lot less behind you.

[moose074]

Originally Posted by SeventyGTX

You can drive a MH up to 26k with a Class C license, anything over that requres a non-commercial CDL.

Everyone I know says not to worry about it and I probably wouldn't if we weren't moving out of state going through 7 or 8 states. I have read that CHP have busted guys with Nevada plates pulling big toy haulers for not having the J endorsement. The biggest fear is getting in an accident.

So your saying that California HP knows the towing restrictions associated with all 50 states. Then with no probable cause are going to pull over an rv they just guess is over 10k and being driven by a non endorsed driver. Of course going thru 7 or 8 states from Nevada you can probably avoid California all together. Other than that you have already been given great advice that you chose to ignore. So not sure what advice you are looking for

[SeventyGTX]

Originally Posted by moose074

So your saying that California HP knows the towing restrictions associated with all 50 states. Then with no probable cause are going to pull over an rv they just guess is over 10k and being driven by a non endorsed driver. Of course going thru 7 or 8 states from Nevada you can probably avoid California all together. Other than that you have already been given great advice that you chose to ignore. So not sure what advice you are looking for

No, I'm not saying that at all. I have read that CHP has busted guys with NEVADA plates going to Glamis dunes in California from Vegas. They get pulled over for something like speeding, then get nailed. I read this a couple times, it's not like it happens daily. They must know what the Nevada limit is.

I wasn't looking for "advice" and did not chose to ignore any as you say, the thread is just more of a rant on my part. This is a general discussion forum, not a Q&A.

[Cowracer]

Drive it till you get busted.


Seriously... If you are a good, safe driver, you may never be pulled over pulling your rig. If you are nabbed, you got maybe a 2 outta 3 chance that the cop may not know the regulation, or may not even care. But if all the stars align and he brings it up play dumb. A sheepish grin, a profound apology and a promise to get it taken care of right away will usually get you some slack with the cop.

Tim

[SeventyGTX]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

Drive it till you get busted.


Seriously... If you are a good, safe driver, you may never be pulled over pulling your rig. If you are nabbed, you got maybe a 2 outta 3 chance that the cop may not know the regulation, or may not even care. But if all the stars align and he brings it up play dumb. A sheepish grin, a profound apology and a promise to get it taken care of right away will usually get you some slack with the cop.

Tim

Yep, that's exactly what I have been toying with. Just point to the registration that says 8600lbs (unladen). Unfortunately the GVWR sticker is right on the left side of the trailer in easy eyesight of a cop having a bad day.

My license does not specifically say GVWR after the 10,000 lb limit, which as I said before is in very tiny print on the backside. Either way I have a few more months till we move to decide.

[upflying]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

Drive it till you get busted.


Seriously... If you are a good, safe driver, you may never be pulled over pulling your rig. If you are nabbed, you got maybe a 2 outta 3 chance that the cop may not know the regulation, or may not even care. But if all the stars align and he brings it up play dumb. A sheepish grin, a profound apology and a promise to get it taken care of right away will usually get you some slack with the cop.

Tim

A traffic stop would be the least of my worries, a crash is where things get tricky.
Would insurance cover an insurance claim if the OP was driving out of class?

[Retired JSO]

Originally Posted by SeventyGTX

No, I'm not saying that at all. I have read that CHP has busted guys with NEVADA plates going to Glamis dunes in California from Vegas. They get pulled over for something like speeding, then get nailed. I read this a couple times, it's not like it happens daily. They must know what the Nevada limit

I believe you are wrong. Most states have reciprocal agreements that allow home state Driving in every state. So if legal in home state, legal in California.

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by upflying

A traffic stop would be the least of my worries, a crash is where things get tricky.
Would insurance cover an insurance claim if the OP was driving out of class?

Yep.

As long as it was not intentional, they cannot deny. Even in a DUI wreck, unless they can PROVE you intentionally crashed, they will cover it. Of course, they will cancel you so fast as to make your head spin, but they will cover the wreck

Tim

[Qwkynuf]

Originally Posted by Retired JSO

I believe you are wrong. Most states have reciprocal agreements that allow home state Driving in every state. So if legal in home state, legal in California.
Attachment 221164

I think that the point the poster is trying to make is that there are (in theory) CHP cops who *know* the Nevada rules, who are on the lookout for NV plated trailers which *might* be noncompliant with the NV licensing laws, and who look for a reason to pull them over and ticket them for violating NV rules.

Looked at another way, I used to live in Alabama, which doesn't (didn't then) require a front license plate on my car. I have since moved to Washington, where they do require a front plate. I don't currently have the front plate installed (because excuses, mostly), so I could easily be ticketed here in WA.

But.... if I was driving my WA plated car in AL, without a front plate - I *could* be ticketed there for not having a front plate, because even though *they* don't require one, WA *does* - and since my car is registered in WA it is subject to WA rules. It's extremely unlikely, but it could happen.

[dward51]

That website is wrong. GA is a reciprocal state and has been for decades.

Goes to further illustrate what is on the web is not always fact.

[SeventyGTX]

Well, I have been dickering about trading the Wildcat plus cash for a '17 Jayco 28.5RSTS (9950GVWR) and just made a deal. Just need to transfer some funds and go pick it up. It is actually longer than the Wildcat (31'7") at 32'11", yet less GVWR. Also has a great floor plan and more room which will be nice when we move and have to live in it for a while.

Should be able to pick it up before this weekend. They will even swap the new 16" rims and Goodyear Endurance tires I put on the Wildcat as well as our mattress. We didn't plan on spending the extra $$$ but this rig has a really nice layout.

[TowPro]

Originally Posted by frank4711

Towing over 26,000 here in Fl you need CDL.

this is not true.
there is an exemption for driving an RV for recreational purposes.



in any state a CDL is only required if your driving to make money. Period

[moose074]

Originally Posted by dward51

That website is wrong. GA is a reciprocal state and has been for decades.

Goes to further illustrate what is on the web is not always fact.

I don’t believe the web site is wrong. I think it is being misunderstood. The way I read it is the sharing of drivers information. Example is the license suspended, how many DUI.

It’s like getting married in Texas I still married in Arkansas

[emm-dee]

Looks like there is some confusion here about what reciprocity involves. I checked with an attorney friend who stated the reciprocity that Georgia and the other states mentioned as not participating in “reciprocity” means their records are not an open book accessible by any LEO as they sit in their cruiser. However, a formal request by another state via specific official channels will usually be accommodated.

That reciprocity is in no way related to the honoring of an individual driver’s license. If I have a license issued in Georgia then every state must acknowledge that license and the restrictions imposed by the issuing state. If that procedure is not acknowledged then it would be open season for any and all states to impose rules (for example) that stated anyone driving a dually must pass a specific test...and require that anyone driving a dually in that state must take the test even though their home state doesn’t require that.

There is a legal term for how states must recognize other state licenses but I don’t remember it (it’s Latin based and I have enough trouble keeping up with English). It’s different from the authority of states, or even localities, to impose licensing requirements for contractors or other service providers from outside the working area who are performing services in the area of jurisdiction.

[grayfox]

Originally Posted by TowPro

this is not true.
there is an exemption for driving an RV for recreational purposes.



in any state a CDL is only required if your driving to make money. Period

PA requires a non commercial CDL/class A. for GVWR over 26,000 lbs. and has been required for quite some time.
Drivers test required but no written exam.

[formerFR]

while we can 'discuss' this and these 'states requirements' to no end, it's very rare, if EVER, that anyone towing a trailer or driving a motorhome has EVER been pulled over, weighed, ticketed, or taken to 'jail', just because they didn't have a certain 'state required' additional endorsement on their license.
To add to the argument, it's also very RARE, if ever, that another state will impose any type of 'additional requirement' on those NOT licensed in their state - there's little way they could, in any case.

We all understand that certain states may 'state' that they have certain additional license requirements for certain situations, but the vast majority of state legislatures have crafted these requirements for the COMMERCIAL trucking industry, NOT for the recreational personal towing segment of the population.
Motorhomes are designed to be driven by the 'average' driver, not by specialists.
Trailers are designed to be towed by the 'average' driver, not by specialists.

Sure, there is a lot of confusion even within the Authorities that police these requirements in each state - try going and getting these 'additional endorsements' and you'll quickly find out the lack of knowledge about them even within the license office itself. Most of these requirements are so confusing that it's certainly understandable that most of us don't understand them.

I delivered many a CLass A brand new Motorhome from the transport companies in N Indiana to RV dealers across the country. No CDL required. Never stopped by any authority. No requirement to stop at weigh stations. Nothing.

[moose074]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

Looks like there is some confusion here about what reciprocity involves. I checked with an attorney friend who stated the reciprocity that Georgia and the other states mentioned as not participating in “reciprocity” means their records are not an open book accessible by any LEO as they sit in their cruiser. However, a formal request by another state via specific official channels will usually be accommodated.

That reciprocity is in no way related to the honoring of an individual driver’s license. If I have a license issued in Georgia then every state must acknowledge that license and the restrictions imposed by the issuing state. If that procedure is not acknowledged then it would be open season for any and all states to impose rules (for example) that stated anyone driving a dually must pass a specific test...and require that anyone driving a dually in that state must take the test even though their home state doesn’t require that.

There is a legal term for how states must recognize other state licenses but I don’t remember it (it’s Latin based and I have enough trouble keeping up with English). It’s different from the authority of states, or even localities, to impose licensing requirements for contractors or other service providers from outside the working area who are performing services in the area of jurisdiction.

X2 what I was trying to say. I struggle with my written skills, much more difficult with my 15 year old over my shoulder

[TowPro]

Originally Posted by grayfox

PA requires a non commercial CDL/class A. for GVWR over 26,000 lbs. and has been required for quite some time.
Drivers test required but no written exam.

you are right in PA about the class A license, and this is not a CDL.


This is a state issued license that does not allow you to move commercial freight (IE drive to make money) but yes, RV drivers in PA should be required to take this, but its only been last couple years RV's went over 21100 lbs.

the Regulations for Commercial Drivers License is set by the Feds, but it is issued by states of residency.

This fed regulated Commercial Drivers License imposes other requirements on drivers that non CDL does not like requires a physicals. They regulates how long you can drive at one time. they also have one clearing house for information for all state LEO's. A big one is the driver is responsible for the mechanical condition of the rig.

these regulations are also in place when a CDL driver is driving NON commercial vehicles: Your a professional driver and should act like one even in your own private automobile and are held to these regulations all the time


here are some other points of CDL mandates that your normal state class A license does not have.

• Driving without a CDL, or suspended CDL, incurs a civil penalty of up to US$2,500 or, in aggravated cases, criminal penalties of up to US$5,000 in fines and/or up to 90 days in prison.

An employer is also subject to a penalty of up to US$10,000 if they knowingly permit a driver to operate a CMV without a valid CDL.

• Two or more serious traffic violations, including excessive speeding, reckless driving, improper or erratic lane changes, following the vehicle ahead too closely, and traffic offenses in connection with fatal traffic accidents, within a three-year period: a 90-day to five-year suspension.
• One or more violations of a Motor vehicle declared out of service order within a 10-year period: one-year suspension.
• Driving under the influence of a controlled substance or alcohol, or leaving the scene of an accident, or using a CMV to commit a felony: three-year suspension.
• Any of the one-year offenses while operating a CMV for hazardous materials or second offense of any of the one-year or three-year offenses, or using a CMV to commit a felony involving manufacturing, distributing, or dispensing controlled substances: life suspension.

States can reduce certain lifetime disqualifications to a minimum disqualification period of 10 years if the driver completes a driver rehabilitation program approved by the State. Not all states do this: it is available in Idaho[4] and New York State[7] but not California[8] or New Jersey.[6]
If a CDL holder is disqualified from operating a CMV they cannot be issued a "conditional" or "hardship" CDL, but can continue to drive non-commercial vehicles.
Any convictions are reported to the driver's home State and Federal Highway Administration and these convictions are treated the same as convictions for violations that are committed in the home State.
The Commercial Drivers License Program collects and stores all convictions a driver receives and transmits this data to the home State so that any disqualification or suspension can be applied.
The FHWA has established 0.04% as the blood alcohol concentration (BAC) level at or above which a CMV driver is deemed to be driving under the influence of alcohol and subject to lose his/her CDL. Additionally, an operator of a CMV that is found to have 'any detectable amount of BAC above 0.0%' will be put out of service for a minimum of 24 hours. (in PA for non CDL its .08%)
A driver must report any driving conviction within 30 days, except parking, to their employer regardless of the nature of the violation.
Employers must be notified if a driver's license is suspended, revoked, or canceled. The notification must be made by the end of the next business day following receipt of the notice of the suspension, revocation, cancellation, lost privilege or disqualification.
Employers cannot under any circumstances use a driver who has more than one license or whose license is suspended, revoked or canceled, or is disqualified from driving. Violation of this requirement may result in civil or criminal penalties.



PA has its own Class A drivers license.

Classes of Driver's Licenses

Non-commercial Driver's Licenses
(note, its even called NON-Commercial Drivers Licenses)

• CLASS A (minimum age 18): Required to operate any combination of vehicles with a gross weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, where the vehicle(s) being towed is/are in excess of 10,000 pounds. Example: Recreational Vehicle, when the towing vehicle is rated at 11,000 pounds and the vehicle towed is rated at 15,500 pounds (total combination weight of 26,500 pounds).

[TowPro]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

Looks like there is some confusion here about what reciprocity involves. I checked with an attorney friend who stated the reciprocity that Georgia and the other states mentioned as not participating in “reciprocity” means their records are not an open book accessible by any LEO as they sit in their cruiser.

that was one of the great things about the federal mandated and regulated Commercial Drivers License, it does not need a reciprocal agreement as all infractions are registered with this single clearing house that any LEO can call into.


in PA they dragged there feed on this new "real ID" that is a federal mandated guidelines on what a drivers license should contain. I think this new Fed mandated "real ID" included reciprocity because I recall PA saying how its going to cost millions of dollars to open up the Drivers License DB to other states, and they were waiting for the feds to offer money to pay for this, now PA is late with real ID.