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Old 09-07-2020, 08:37 PM   #21
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With population loss, how will they ever raise enough taxes to pay unwise commitments like the correctional officer salaries and pensions? Get ready for a death spiral.
That is a problem in most states. BTW, population is still rising, just not as fast as it was.
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Old 09-07-2020, 08:49 PM   #22
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That is a problem in most states. BTW, population is still rising, just not as fast as it was.
Face it, procreation causes population.
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Old 09-07-2020, 09:16 PM   #23
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Got airlifted by Army chinook while in Honduras with AF RED HORSE. They are quite a ride. If anyone gets to the Aviation Museum at Ft Rucker, they have a Chinook outside with wings; yes, WiNGS. Didn’t work out but still interesting to see.

Kudos to those CA Army National Guard aviators 👍👍👍👍👍
Really?! Interesting. I'll have to dig that up. I'm always more fascinated by things that did not work, over things that did.
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Old 09-07-2020, 09:27 PM   #24
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this fire started on 9/4 grew so fast that at one point these campers were advised they would have to shelter in the lake as they were pretty much cut off from the start of the fire
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Old 09-07-2020, 09:53 PM   #25
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Thankfully the growth is slowing. Too expensive here already. Of course that does allow people to emigrate with a huge amount of money stockpiled when they retire and move to a place with a lot lower housing costs.
Growth is by welfare and other collectors, while taxpayers For the most part are leaving. The largest tax increase in state history is going on the ballot, heavily disguised however.
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Old 09-07-2020, 10:17 PM   #26
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I used to live a few miles down the hill from where this fire is. The area it is in is extremely rugged, very difficult to fight a fire in. This fire started up, if my memory doesn’t fail me, and flashed to 26,000 acres in 24 hours. That speed is equivalent to the Camp fire that took out the whole town of Paradise 2 years ago. They barely were able to get word to all those camping around there. They were even using helicopters with loud speakers to try to get folks to where they could get them out. A number of folks were able to make it out on the road, but when the fire took a jump, there was no way of using the road any longer.
My hat is off to those brave souls who take their aircraft into the face of these fires. I have seen them in action many times and the things they do with those aircraft is not only amazing, but will scare you to death. Every time I see one of them in the air, I pray for them. I also pray for the people on the ground and all of those who are supporting them. You often hear about the fire fighters who have died in the fires, and I have had a couple of my friends in that group, you don’t often hear about the support people who die or are seriously injured and there are a number of them. God bless them all and God bless the National Guard for their efforts, they to are often unsung heroes. Our hearts go out to all of those who are affected by all the fires that are affecting the Western states as well as those affected by other calamities.
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Old 09-09-2020, 02:44 AM   #27
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The Creek Fire started Friday night, the beginning of busy Labor Day Wknd. It spread rapidly on Saturday. How many of these people set out to the Mtns. after the fire had already broken out? There were also hikers/ backpackers who got burned fleeing from the flames. Fortunately the group rescued were at the boat launch. Many had boats to escape the fire. Very scary! I was camping in Yosemite Valley about five years ago when a huge fire erupted nearby. There is no cell service there and trying to figure out where it was coming from and if the road was still open.
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Old 09-09-2020, 07:57 AM   #28
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I'm not familiar with that area, but I don't think I would be camping or hiking within 200 miles of a forest fire. They travel at what, 10 mph on average? Faster over tundra? Even at 200 miles that is not even 24 hours before you could be in it.
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Old 09-10-2020, 07:14 PM   #29
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California is truly paradise lost!
Here in Sacramento the other day the smoke was so thick and black it looked like a thunderstorm was approaching. There is literally white and black ash everywhere… Don’t even think about taking a deep breath.
I am very glad I store my trailer indoors.
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Old 09-10-2020, 08:39 PM   #30
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California is truly paradise lost!
Here in Sacramento the other day the smoke was so thick and black it looked like a thunderstorm was approaching. There is literally white and black ash everywhere… Don’t even think about taking a deep breath.
I am very glad I store my trailer indoors.
Paradise was lost two years ago. DW lived there for years. She went back last year and saw...the footings of her former home. And that's all there was.
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Old 09-11-2020, 12:41 AM   #31
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We are camp hosts in Washington’s Mount St. Helens Volcano area at the top of the mountain. I thank goodness our company, American Land & Leisure moved quickly to get us out of the danger zone. Likewise we have over 40 miles of narrow, twisting road to evacuate on. The road north was already blocked so we could only had one road out.

They moved us when we were at stage 2, be ready, as opposed to stage 1, evacuate. A fire that was 8,000 acres night before last is now over 20,000 acres and headed toward our campground.
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Old 09-11-2020, 06:28 AM   #32
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They moved us when we were at stage 2, be ready, as opposed to stage 1, evacuate. A fire that was 8,000 acres night before last is now over 20,000 acres and headed toward our campground.
Good on them! It does not pay off to wait till the last minute.
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Old 09-11-2020, 06:34 AM   #33
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I wish there were more people like you!

Toured California in the 80's in a popup when the kids were little. Don't plan on ever going back.
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Old 09-11-2020, 07:02 AM   #34
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Kudos to the National Guard.

But, I gotta ask. How much warning did these campers have that there was a wildfire in the area? I know that wildfires can start rapidly, move fast, and turn on a dime. However, if there is a wildfire within a hundred miles of the place where I am camping, I am going to use my fully-stocked PED (personal evacuation device, i.e. camper) and get the heck outta there.

There musta been one heckuva set of circumstances to trap these relatively mobile folks.
I have friends missing in those fires (waiting to hear if they have checked in as safe). They were told to shelter in place until they receive word to evacuate and they were waiting...with their animals. Having seen traffic jams especially with long narrow roads and no off roads to escape to all it takes is one tree across a road or breakdown and everyone is sitting ducks if the fire overtakes them - with high winds fires can jump miles. I expect these campers were told to stay by the lake where they could at least dive in the water to avoid the fire. It is hard to know whether to trust the authorities and wait or to go out on your own to save yourself and find out - I have seen bad outcomes with either course of action.
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Old 09-11-2020, 07:30 AM   #35
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I have friends missing in those fires (waiting to hear if they have checked in as safe). They were told to shelter in place until they receive word to evacuate and they were waiting...with their animals. Having seen traffic jams especially with long narrow roads and no off roads to escape to all it takes is one tree across a road or breakdown and everyone is sitting ducks if the fire overtakes them - with high winds fires can jump miles. I expect these campers were told to stay by the lake where they could at least dive in the water to avoid the fire. It is hard to know whether to trust the authorities and wait or to go out on your own to save yourself and find out - I have seen bad outcomes with either course of action.
If you read a slightly later post of mine, you’ll see where I did some research on the start and the progression of the Camp Fire—and determined that it was an extraordinary set of circumstances that trapped those campers.

I still will never camp within 100 miles of an existing wildfire and will evacuate if one develops within 100 miles.

These campers did not have that option. The fire started nearby and rapidly moved directly toward the campers. However, they did choose to camp in an area with a single exit road that travels several miles before there is a choice of roads. That is another lesson learned for me.

Sleeping areas in homes are required by code to have multiple exit choices in the event of a fire. Campgrounds need to have multiple exit road choices in the event of wildfire.
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Old 09-11-2020, 08:25 AM   #36
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The Creek fire as it is called is near Shaver Lake east of Fresno, it is a prime example of the lack of forest management for several years. Environmental restrictions, now an environmental disaster.
The fuel is 80-90% dead pine trees and heavy under brush of manzanita. What could have been useful timber is now pollution and losses of all types.
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Old 09-11-2020, 08:46 AM   #37
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I'm not familiar with that area, but I don't think I would be camping or hiking within 200 miles of a forest fire. They travel at what, 10 mph on average? Faster over tundra? Even at 200 miles that is not even 24 hours before you could be in it.
Having just escaped from the conflagration in OR I must tell this poster and others with similar claims: you are clueless. You are surrounded by smoke and other vehicles and have no way of knowing where the fires are compared to you. You are as likely to be driving into a fire as away from one. Emergency workers and vehicles zoom by both ways...too busy to give you info. Info on the radio non existent. Cell service not available.

We drove 20 miles in traffic to encounter a road closed (OR 101), had to get our RV with toad turned around in road to enter traffic stream that took four hours to backtrack that 20 miles...remaining uncertain our escape route might take us into a larger fire.

Scary!
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Old 09-11-2020, 08:53 AM   #38
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Having just escaped from the conflagration in OR I must tell this poster and others with similar claims: you are clueless. You are surrounded by smoke and other vehicles and have no way of knowing where the fires are compared to you. You are as likely to be driving into a fire as away from one. Emergency workers and vehicles zoom by both ways...too busy to give you info. Info on the radio non existent. Cell service not available.

We drove 20 miles in traffic to encounter a road closed (OR 101), had to get our RV with toad turned around in road to enter traffic stream that took four hours to backtrack that 20 miles...remaining uncertain our escape route might take us into a larger fire.

Scary!
Wouldn’t what you cite be even more reason not to camp anywhere near a current wildfire? (Which is what I get the poster you named as “clueless” was saying.)
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Old 09-11-2020, 08:56 AM   #39
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The Creek fire as it is called is near Shaver Lake east of Fresno, it is a prime example of the lack of forest management for several years. Environmental restrictions, now an environmental disaster.
The fuel is 80-90% dead pine trees and heavy under brush of manzanita. What could have been useful timber is now pollution and losses of all types.
That problem certainly has cured itself and won't be back for a few years.. Mother Nature has a way of taking care of things on her own.


Sadly I don't believe these historic fires will change anything in the way forests are managed. The true experts are no longer in charge.
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Old 09-11-2020, 09:00 AM   #40
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Wouldn’t what you cite be even more reason not to camp anywhere near a current wildfire? (Which is what I get the poster you named as “clueless” was saying.)
There are no fires when you camp. You are not notified when and where they start and what direction they will go. As I said, clueless.

The night before OR was hit by unnatural winds in direction and force. The conflagrations popped up over night. We were camping in a place where we went to get away from fires (smoke).

And I didn’t mention the 101 was lined with downed trees the crews had just cut through and pushed aside.
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