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Old 09-11-2020, 09:09 AM   #41
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There are no fires when you camp. You are not notified when and where they start and what direction they will go. As I said, clueless.

The night before OR was hit by unnatural winds in direction and force. The conflagrations popped up over night. We were camping in a place where we went to get away from fires (smoke).

And I didnít mention the 101 was lined with downed trees the crews had just cut through and pushed aside.
Oregon probably has something similar, but a www.fire.ca.gov contains info about current fires in California. Of course, as has been mentioned regarding the Creek Fire and the campers, they had no notice because the fire started and arrived at the campground within 24 hours.

Nothing could be done about that. However, it is still a reasonable idea, not a ďcluelessĒ one, not to camp within a certain distance of a known wildfire.

Have a nice day. eye95 out.
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Old 09-11-2020, 09:20 AM   #42
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Thankfully the growth is slowing. Too expensive here already. Of course that does allow people to emigrate with a huge amount of money stockpiled when they retire and move to a place with a lot lower housing costs.
Although I'm not retired yet we moved to NC because of a job opportunity....And yes the housing costs are alot lower..In fact pretty much everything is BUT I will say one thing yeah CA has it fair share of issues that would make me think about returning when I'm ready to retire the weather sure isn't one of them even with the fires and earthquake, etc.
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Old 09-11-2020, 09:40 AM   #43
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Oregon probably has something similar, but a www.fire.ca.gov contains info about current fires in California. Of course, as has been mentioned regarding the Creek Fire and the campers, they had no notice because the fire started and arrived at the campground within 24 hours.

Nothing could be done about that. However, it is still a reasonable idea, not a “clueless” one, not to camp within a certain distance of a known wildfire.

Have a nice day. eye95 out.
It is a clueless idea because there is not a wildfire when you camp. You don’t get the situation.

When we got to where we could get cell service again we found the smoke fire map online. It shows where they are but not where they are going. We at least got some assurance our escape path didn’t have any nearby (yet).
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Old 09-11-2020, 10:16 AM   #44
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Excuse me for butting in

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It is a clueless idea because there is not a wildfire when you camp. You donít get the situation.

When we got to where we could get cell service again we found the smoke fire map online. It shows where they are but not where they are going. We at least got some assurance our escape path didnít have any nearby (yet).
Excuse me for butting in, but you gentlemen are each using different definitions of clueless which is causing unnecessary disagreement.
  • Clueless: (current jargon usage) dim-witted, not understanding
  • Clueless: no knowledge of the subject, no information on the subject
These two are pretty close, but each of you are on opposite sides of the distinction.
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Old 09-11-2020, 11:15 AM   #45
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Excuse me for butting in, but you gentlemen are each using different definitions of clueless which is causing unnecessary disagreement.
  • Clueless: (current jargon usage) dim-witted, not understanding
  • Clueless: no knowledge of the subject, no information on the subject
These two are pretty close, but each of you are on opposite sides of the distinction.
Yes. I am using the second meaning: ignorant.

Some confuse its meaning also. It means no knowledge; in this case of what the authors are opining on. You can’t not camp near fires that haven’t started yet!

My knowledge on this subject comes from years of living with wildfires in Idaho. But escaping from the OR holocaust two days ago was the scariest ever.
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Old 09-11-2020, 11:16 AM   #46
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I will take fire and earthquakes over tornadoes and hurricanes any day. The difference in damage cost is not even close.
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Although I'm not retired yet we moved to NC because of a job opportunity....And yes the housing costs are alot lower..In fact pretty much everything is BUT I will say one thing yeah CA has it fair share of issues that would make me think about returning when I'm ready to retire the weather sure isn't one of them even with the fires and earthquake, etc.
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Old 09-11-2020, 11:59 AM   #47
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Yes. I am using the second meaning: ignorant.

Some confuse its meaning also. It means no knowledge; in this case of what the authors are opining on. You canít not camp near fires that havenít started yet!

My knowledge on this subject comes from years of living with wildfires in Idaho. But escaping from the OR holocaust two days ago was the scariest ever.
Just in case it wasn't clear, one of the two uses is pejorative and the other is not. Your counterpart was assuming you meant the pejorative form and may not have realized there was another form.

This forum is populated by individuals of diverse backgrounds and educational experiences. It may be best to avoid words with ambiguous meaning.
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Old 09-11-2020, 01:23 PM   #48
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The Creek fire as it is called is near Shaver Lake east of Fresno, it is a prime example of the lack of forest management for several years. Environmental restrictions, now an environmental disaster.
The fuel is 80-90% dead pine trees and heavy under brush of manzanita. What could have been useful timber is now pollution and losses of all types.
So True! Then add the fact that homeowners that live in urban interface regions, fight any kind of wildland fire prevention methods, such as control burns.
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Old 09-11-2020, 02:01 PM   #49
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Well, my DW and I can finally say "Thank God for Covid-19"!

I retired this past August first. We had reservations booked at Fishing Bridge Camp Ground in Yellowstone for tomorrow, September 12, and, from there heading to Napa, then Yosemite which I believe is not far from where the fires are happening.

So, are travel plans would have put us driving through Denver during the snow storm the other day, and put us in the vicinity of these horrific fires happening now in California.

As far as forest management goes, from what I've read and have been told by a close friend who's "best" friend lives outside SanFran, it is more of a political issue with heavy input from the enviromentalist groups having great sway, more so than forestery experts, that has caused the bigger and bigger fire events in California. It is basically against the law to cut back underbrush a tree growth even close to your property.
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Old 09-11-2020, 02:21 PM   #50
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I had to hire a licensed forester and pay $400. To clear enough trees to build my home and workshop. Since that time the bark beetle killed 224 trees over 100’ tall. I had a logger come in and remove them and some live ones that were within reaching distance of my buildings.
Then I had a masticator come and grind up thousands of little cedar, pines and oaks.
On top of that my wife and I thin and limb up trees in the spring, summer and fall for our winter controlled burns.
This is management. We had to get several permits and have an inspection for raptors. Primarily owls. But if I let burn then where do the owls go?
The house picture in my registry shows lots of tall pines that are now gone.
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Old 09-11-2020, 04:44 PM   #51
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I have friends missing in those fires (waiting to hear if they have checked in as safe). They were told to shelter in place until they receive word to evacuate and they were waiting...with their animals. Having seen traffic jams especially with long narrow roads and no off roads to escape to all it takes is one tree across a road or breakdown and everyone is sitting ducks if the fire overtakes them - with high winds fires can jump miles. I expect these campers were told to stay by the lake where they could at least dive in the water to avoid the fire. It is hard to know whether to trust the authorities and wait or to go out on your own to save yourself and find out - I have seen bad outcomes with either course of action.
Prior Coast Guard helo pilot. Staying put always has much better odds in a rescue situation, especially if authorities already know where you are. Once you start moving, you put the "search" back in "search and rescue". Rescues are easy compared to searches - and far less heartbreaking to the searchers.

When I was learning the trade, our R&D center did some search success studies. For a person floating in open water in a life jacket under good conditions, the chances of being spotted were 8% - if the plane/helo passed within 1/2 mile of the person. Repeating the same search 3X - the normal procedure - pushed the POD (probability of detection) to 10%. Only once in some 500 searches did I ever find a person in the open ocean. And he was already dead, with his zipper open (the most common way to fall overboard and die is to pee over the side of the boat at night, the second most common is to enjoy some adult beverages in the cockpit before going to bed, and of course some will combine the 2 methods).

In this case, not only is a small lake or known small section of a bigger lake protection from the fire, but the lake provides a clear path for a helicopter hoist. Only the path to/from the lake is risky.

If you take off through the forest, and anything goes wrong, you are a sitting duck. Chances of air assets finding you through the canopy and smoke are nowhere near what they are for a section of lake. Once found, getting a hoist out means threading the cable and hook, and then you, through the trees. If the tree canopy is over the road, or smoke and flames too close, you will be waiting on a ground rescue. If nothing goes wrong, and you succeed in getting out, get on your knees and thank your Maker. And buy a lottery ticket for me!

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Old 09-11-2020, 06:05 PM   #52
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It is a clueless idea because there is not a wildfire when you camp. You donít get the situation.

When we got to where we could get cell service again we found the smoke fire map online. It shows where they are but not where they are going. We at least got some assurance our escape path didnít have any nearby (yet).
I think anybody that would disperse camp during fire season, out of communication with online resources that could provide you with information on current conditions, is clueless.

The weather event that caused all these existing fires to blow up and travel 200,000 acres in one night, and increased the chances for new fires to become dangerous, was predicted for several days ahead of it's occurrence. The weather forecasters new it was coming and put the warnings out. They forecasted where the winds would blow and that told where the fires would go.

If you want to go disperse camp in this situation, then that is clueless in my mind. Clueless meaning ignorant of the pending situation.
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Old 09-11-2020, 06:18 PM   #53
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One might consider it to go camping in a forest of 80-90% dead trees clueless.
This is a situation that has been pending for several years and has been published in numerous forms of media.
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Old 09-11-2020, 06:21 PM   #54
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Paradise was lost two years ago. DW lived there for years. She went back last year and saw...the footings of her former home. And that's all there was.
According to last evenings national news on ABC and NBC, Paradise has been lost again. Both news broadcasts showed aerial videos of homes and businesses burned to the ground. ABC talked to one of the present day evacuees, she said everything is destroyed.
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Old 09-11-2020, 06:32 PM   #55
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Campgrounds need to have multiple exit road choices in the event of wildfire.
I get what you're trying to say, but make that a requirement for a campground and thousands of them would probably go out of business.


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Old 09-11-2020, 06:44 PM   #56
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I get what you're trying to say, but make that a requirement for a campground and thousands of them would probably go out of business.

Mike
Make no mistake. I am the last person to advocate for any governmental mandate.

This situation is something I will consider on any future camping trip: What do I have to do to get a choice of ways out?
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Old 09-11-2020, 06:58 PM   #57
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According to last evenings national news on ABC and NBC, Paradise has been lost again. Both news broadcasts showed aerial videos of homes and businesses burned to the ground. ABC talked to one of the present day evacuees, she said everything is destroyed.
The fire is still 6 miles south of Paradise, the small town of Berry Creek and Feather Falls took the hit from this fire.
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Old 09-11-2020, 07:01 PM   #58
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One might consider it to go camping in a forest of 80-90% dead trees clueless.
This is a situation that has been pending for several years and has been published in numerous forms of media.
And living anywhere in the Sierra Foothills these days is taking a chance on a destructive wildfire coming through. Moc fire is a good example and a great catch by CalFire to stop it where they did.
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Old 09-11-2020, 07:07 PM   #59
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Make no mistake. I am the last person to advocate for any governmental mandate.

This situation is something I will consider on any future camping trip: What do I have to do to get a choice of ways out?
Most Forest Service Campgrounds I know of around me have a choice, usually one way out and one way farther into the forest.
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Old 09-11-2020, 08:45 PM   #60
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And living anywhere in the Sierra Foothills these days is taking a chance on a destructive wildfire coming through. Moc fire is a good example and a great catch by CalFire to stop it where they did.
That Moccasin area has burned 4 times since I have been here. Therefore less fuel and existing breaks that could be cleaned and reused.
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