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Old 02-05-2017, 02:41 PM   #21
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Be willing to bet loading a golf cart on pickup front would run over on axle cap.
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Old 02-05-2017, 03:15 PM   #22
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First not a full golf cart its a mini only 300 pounds also truck is a F350 with snow plow attachment package rated at 650 pounds. From what I have been told on the Super Duty F350 Forum 350 pounds is nothing to worry about as that is what it's built for. I really don't know for sure just have to go by what the package is rated at.
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Old 02-05-2017, 03:27 PM   #23
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More to it than that. Couple of things:. How much does RV, full tank to gas and all occupants add to front end before mini is loaded.
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Old 02-05-2017, 07:51 PM   #24
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You might be careful with a swivel wheel too. Heres what happened to one guy who used itClick image for larger version

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Old 02-06-2017, 11:57 AM   #25
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Don't think that swivel Wheel trailer caused that frame rail failure in my opinion. Looks like the chassis was overloaded by the front axle.
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Old 02-06-2017, 12:30 PM   #26
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Don't think that swivel Wheel trailer caused that frame rail failure in my opinion. Looks like the chassis was overloaded by the front axle.
I have same trailer and that is the only variable thats different and i dont have that issue nor anyone else with that model.
Turbs can probably answer more to this, but i believe according to the info from that thread, that the swivel wheel was 100% the cause of that frame damage.

I personally dont care what op does. Its not going to be my problem and it wont be Forest Rivers either. Just trying to help him make an informed decision.
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:41 PM   #27
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Don't think that swivel Wheel trailer caused that frame rail failure in my opinion. Looks like the chassis was overloaded by the front axle.
Agree to a point. If I remember correctly he also was traveling on back country dirt roads so makes it even more of an issue. But with the extra est. 800lbs. hanging off the back is enough to crumble the frame if it is bottomed out on one axle. I think that's what happen.

For the O.P., if you have only a 6" I-beam frame I would NOT recommend it. I know your mini golf car is half the weight of a full size but I forsee issues like Herk discussed.
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:00 PM   #28
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Knowing nothing about this type use of attached trailer I can see a frame failure is towing vehicle was in a hard turn when one or both casters severely hung up and drug sideways. That could cause wheels and axles to convulse. RVs are top heavy and could kick violently. IMO
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Old 02-06-2017, 09:40 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by jackel440 View Post
Don't think that swivel Wheel trailer caused that frame rail failure in my opinion. Looks like the chassis was overloaded by the front axle.


Can't say for sure if the swivel wheel 100% caused the damage, however it did happen under warranty and forest river denied the claim.

So be careful if it's under warranty you may have a brand new 60k piece of junk that forest river denies warranty because they specifically say no towed devices.

I find it hard to believe it was anything but the swivel wheel that caused this issue, no one else with 36qbok has had this issue to my knowledge!
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Old 02-07-2017, 06:47 AM   #30
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Do all of your own fifth wheels of the same model have that same style equalizer mounted between your leaf Springs? Or do you have the factory cast Steel equalizer?
No one here knows the true conditions of when the damage occured. Was the unit overloaded inside? Was the wieght not balanced correctly? Now he was on supposed back roads?
If that's the case he more than likely was going to fast for the conditions and overloaded the chassis.
The tell tale sign of a weak chassis is the fact that the camper's frame flange had already had an angle iron stiffener welded to the I beam flanges at the location of the equalizer.
The stiffener should have been longer and tied to all 3 mounting points of the springs along the beam flange.
Travel trailers and fifth wheels have the weakest frames.
My opinion is he was either pulling in or backing up and loaded the chassis at the axles. Tires scrub and torsional twist applied to the frame by the axles and Springs rolled the beam flange.
I've seen many other beam flanges rolled on other trailers. And they didn't have a tag along attached to the back.
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:34 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by jackel440 View Post
Do all of your own fifth wheels of the same model have that same style equalizer mounted between your leaf Springs? Or do you have the factory cast Steel equalizer?
No one here knows the true conditions of when the damage occured. Was the unit overloaded inside? Was the wieght not balanced correctly? Now he was on supposed back roads?
If that's the case he more than likely was going to fast for the conditions and overloaded the chassis.
The tell tale sign of a weak chassis is the fact that the camper's frame flange had already had an angle iron stiffener welded to the I beam flanges at the location of the equalizer.
The stiffener should have been longer and tied to all 3 mounting points of the springs along the beam flange.
Travel trailers and fifth wheels have the weakest frames.
My opinion is he was either pulling in or backing up and loaded the chassis at the axles. Tires scrub and torsional twist applied to the frame by the axles and Springs rolled the beam flange.
I've seen many other beam flanges rolled on other trailers. And they didn't have a tag along attached to the back.


That flange is installed by the frame manufacturer.
Both my palominos have had them.
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:23 PM   #32
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Do all of your own fifth wheels of the same model have that same style equalizer mounted between your leaf Springs? Or do you have the factory cast Steel equalizer?
No one here knows the true conditions of when the damage occured. Was the unit overloaded inside? Was the wieght not balanced correctly? Now he was on supposed back roads?
If that's the case he more than likely was going to fast for the conditions and overloaded the chassis.
The tell tale sign of a weak chassis is the fact that the camper's frame flange had already had an angle iron stiffener welded to the I beam flanges at the location of the equalizer.
The stiffener should have been longer and tied to all 3 mounting points of the springs along the beam flange.
Travel trailers and fifth wheels have the weakest frames.
My opinion is he was either pulling in or backing up and loaded the chassis at the axles. Tires scrub and torsional twist applied to the frame by the axles and Springs rolled the beam flange.
I've seen many other beam flanges rolled on other trailers. And they didn't have a tag along attached to the back.
Those are the standard factory equilizers. Moryde Equiflex came standard on sabres with an upgrade also available.
The braces are also standard. And this is a frame that has a 14-15,000 lb gvwr.
This pic is on the drivers side of camper and the buckle is above the front axle spring assy.

After working in the collision industry, and straightening frames on a daily basis, this damage is consistent with a rear collision or a rear overload condition.
In a front or rear impact wreck where the frame is damaged to the point that it travels to a suspension area, the suspension always drives the frames upward.
But since this guy wasn't in a wreck, and i never heard anything about him traveling offroad. (Who would take a 42' 5th wheel with another 8-10' behind it offroad? That doesn't even make sense.) That only leaves one thing that could cause the issue.....Rear overload.....???swivel wheel???, yep that would cause the overload.

Jackel-- don't know why you want to argue this so much???
No camper and a newby.....stick around, you'll see all kinds of self inflicted damage that people do to their campers.
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:41 AM   #33
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But since this guy wasn't in a wreck, and i never heard anything about him traveling offroad. (Who would take a 42' 5th wheel with another 8-10' behind it offroad? That doesn't even make sense.)
Well since you called me out and it is so unbelievable to you, go read it yourself.
POST #4 in the link below.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ad.php?t=80074

The potholes and back roads he was on was more of a contributing factor in my opinion. The pounding of the suspension folded the weak steel. It's no secret Lippert uses inferior low budget & inadequate material when building some of the frames. (search for yourself of Wildcat frames shearing at the pinbox) If he stayed on smooth asphalt it would not of ever happened.
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:46 AM   #34
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Well since you called me out and it is so unbelievable to you, go read it yourself.
POST #4 in the link below.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ad.php?t=80074

The potholes and back roads he was on was more of a contributing factor in my opinion. The pounding of the suspension folded the weak steel. It's no secret Lippert uses inferior low budget & inadequate material when building some of the frames. (search for yourself of Wildcat frames shearing at the pinbox) If he stayed on smooth asphalt it would not of ever happened.
"Rough roads with potholes" is hardly off road. Thats pretty much any major interstate.

Here's your post #4 that you referred tooClick image for larger version

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Old 02-19-2017, 11:39 AM   #35
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I cant tell, by looking at the picture of the swivel wheel trailer, exactly how the trailer is connected to the 5th wheel. If the trailer is connected without regard to up / down as well as rotational forces, I can see how towing this much weight could damage the 5th wheels undercarriage. I would also want to locate the swivel wheels under the trailer a little more forward to reduce the tongue weight loaded onto the 5th wheel. I would try to limit the tongue weight to no more than 20%. In the photo configuration shown, with the swivel wheels behind the trailer, the tongue weight is 50% of the total trailer load. The hitch assembly, since the trailer must couple to the 5th wheel using a two point system, must have a rotational component so if the 5th wheel hits uneven road surfaces and lisps to the left or right, the swivel wheel trailer must allow the 5th wheel to rock left / right without putting stress on the connection points of the swivel trailer or I can see how the damage could occur. If the swivel trailer is connected just using two parallel ball mounts, this takes up and down (front to back) motion into consideration but not left to right motion!! The two point connection system must be able to rotate at the center of the connection to the 5th wheel. IMHO
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Old 02-19-2017, 12:22 PM   #36
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I don't believe it has to rotate left-right. The wheels will swivel for that. It does need an up-down to deal with bumps and gullies.
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Old 02-19-2017, 12:49 PM   #37
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I don't believe it has to rotate left-right. The wheels will swivel for that. It does need an up-down to deal with bumps and gullies.
What I meant by left and right is not the horizontal motion but the vertical left and right motion. If you can imagine looking at the rear of the camper and hitting an un level road ( left side of road is higher than the right side) the camper will tilt to the right. If the swivel trailer connection system does not allow for this stress, the frame is going to try to pick up the left side of the swivel trailer as well as it's load thus stressing the frame and running gear of the 5th wheel. I realize that the swivel wheels allow for turning, that's not the motion that I was referring to.
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Old 02-19-2017, 05:13 PM   #38
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What I meant by left and right is not the horizontal motion but the vertical left and right motion. If you can imagine looking at the rear of the camper and hitting an un level road ( left side of road is higher than the right side) the camper will tilt to the right. If the swivel trailer connection system does not allow for this stress, the frame is going to try to pick up the left side of the swivel trailer as well as it's load thus stressing the frame and running gear of the 5th wheel. I realize that the swivel wheels allow for turning, that's not the motion that I was referring to.
Gotcha.

Looks like they have an attachment that doesn't rotate and they have one that does. Guess I'd go for the one that does!

https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/...gebook2016.pdf
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Old 02-19-2017, 05:39 PM   #39
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Gotcha.

Looks like they have an attachment that doesn't rotate and they have one that does. Guess I'd go for the one that does!

https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/...gebook2016.pdf
Absolutely!!!!
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Old 02-19-2017, 06:33 PM   #40
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The designs I've seen use a torsion axle to compensate the left to right grade change.
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