AAA warns...don't use E15 gas

[brianjames]

Originally Posted by grayfox

Cellulosic Fiber from sugar cain is very sucessfull in South America. I understand it will be here in th USA if not now in the very near future. Some articles I have read indicates sugar cane will eventually replace corn in ethanol. ????

Brazil actually produces an abundance of ethanol from sugarcane. Some of which the US actually imports. But it requires a tropical climate, so the US is limited in being able to grow it. Florida and Louisiana produce over 95% of a small amount of sugarcane in the US.

[awwall]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Not true in NC or on the way from Concord, NC to Orlando, FL. We've stopped at numerous gas stations from NC to IN, IL, IA, MO, AR, TN and never saw non-ethanol gas available anywhere altho they say it is available in IA. All were 10%.

X2 OC, I have been from here to South Dakota and back, including through Iowa and haven't seen one station with non-ethanol gas. We have one station here, 25 miles from me, that I drive to get 100% gas for lawnmowers, chainsaws, etc. I for one would buy 100% gas if it were available.

[mackman1994]

I live in Iowa and I don't think I have seen a station that doesn't have both 10% and non-ethanol. I myself won't buy gas with ethanol because I don't drive my daily driver enough to burn a tank in less that a month and that is longer than I like to have ethanol in my tank.

[OldCoot]

I personally don't mind the 10%, at least you don't have to worry about condensation in the tank when it sits for weeks/months without driving it like mine does. Before the blending started and we burned alky in our race car, we'd put a quart or two in the gas tanks in the fall and spring just for absorbing the condensation.

[grayfox]

Is Brazilian Sugarcane The Answer To U.S. Biofuels Needs?

[Brother Les]

I agree with AAA

(I wrote out a long post and it seemed very flaming and I deleted it, my apologies)

imo E should be removed.

[grayfox]

I think it's been an interesting discussion. One that touchs us all in one way or another. Having read many of the posts I think it has stayed civil and sometimes spirited with many differing opinions. Again... interesting.

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by brianjames

Not true. You can buy gas with 0% ethanol at every gas station I've ever been to. It costs more and people actually CHOOSE to buy the E10 that costs less.

Not in Virginia (NC & SC too) you have to hunt to find a station that carries gas with no ethanol I know of very few in my area. 99% here only carry gas with ethanol.

[mwebber78]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Not true in NC or on the way from Concord, NC to Orlando, FL. We've stopped at numerous gas stations from NC to IN, IL, IA, MO, AR, TN and never saw non-ethanol gas available anywhere altho they say it is available in IA. All were 10%.

I agree.

By law in Maine, I can't choose gas with less then 10% ethanol - so no I don't have a choice. Ive used Sea Foam to stabilize and reduce issues with lawn equipment, power sports, and boating motors which don't take kindly to ethanol. From my vantage point, the use of ethanol and it's subsidized market is a political choice and not environmentally driven.

[Joe_GA]

Originally Posted by brianjames

Not true. You can buy gas with 0% ethanol at every gas station I've ever been to. It costs more and people actually CHOOSE to buy the E10 that costs less.

X4, no choice here in SE Georgia. We have one station about 20 miles from me where you can buy "marine" gas. All other stations have nothing but the ethanol blended gas.

[fast murray]

We have one place that blends 83 octane with premium to produce 87 octane with no ethanol and they get pretty good money for it. As far as reducing condensation, it was explained to me that ethanol never stops absorbing condensation. From the Ethanol plant to the traincar to the storage facility to the gas station to your vehicle or gas can. Apparantly it can take on quite a bit of moisture over time. I also heard that the government doesn't subsidise producers anymore but instead pays big oil just to get them to put the stuff in their product. I know nothing of what it takes to produce crude based fuels but does anyone ever consider how much diesel it takes to grow corn as well as natural gas to cook it?

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by fast murray

We have one place that blends 83 octane with premium to produce 87 octane with no ethanol and they get pretty good money for it. As far as reducing condensation, it was explained to me that ethanol never stops absorbing condensation. From the Ethanol plant to the traincar to the storage facility to the gas station to your vehicle or gas can. Apparantly it can take on quite a bit of moisture over time. I also heard that the government doesn't subsidise producers anymore but instead pays big oil just to get them to put the stuff in their product. I know nothing of what it takes to produce crude based fuels but does anyone ever consider how much diesel it takes to grow corn as well as natural gas to cook it?

Need to take a peek at this about how they are hiding the subsidies. Corn Ethanol Subsidies Are Alive and Well | Taxpayers for Common Sense

[Whitewolf]

I have a friend who has an E85 Chrysler. He tried E85 several times and came to the conclusion that even with the the lower cost of the E85, his mileage dropped to the point that it was actually costing him more.

There's not one station in this area that has non-ethanol fuel.

Ram recommends using mid-grade for regular use and premium for towing. I did a test last year when I found a station that had ethanol free premium. We were starting home after a weekend camping. The truck was empty and I filled. The truck pulled better and I got better mileage. Didn't downshift as much on hills. The mileage improved enough that even with higher cost per gallon, the actual cost was less. I tried this on a couple more occasions and got the same results.

Tried this test on a couple of trips while not towing. My mpg went up and the truck ran better. But with the higher cost per gallon it was a wash as far as actual $.

[DDC]

The idea of using sugar cane just seems weird I remember if you wanted to screw up someones engine you could put sugar in the gas tank, I rebuilt an engine that this had been done to years ago, not a pretty sight, but insurance covered the cost then.

[brianjames]

Originally Posted by Whitewolf

I have a friend who has an E85 Chrysler. He tried E85 several times and came to the conclusion that even with the the lower cost of the E85, his mileage dropped to the point that it was actually costing him more.

All depends on the price. I only run E85 when the price difference is at or near the mileage difference. And I feel good that I'm supporting an american industry and not foreign oil.

[fast murray]

Not really on topic anymore but maybe one of these days we could start burning our own oil and park the oil tankers. They were wanting to build a refinery in SD a couple of years ago but the people in that county lobbied hard to block it. I don't know where they're at with they're pipeline from ND to the gulf but I read where they're burning off excess oil right at the wells because they can't move it fast enough.

[acadianbob]

What bothers me is not having any choice but to use ethanol blend. In Minnesota, there is no choice. The previous governor here was pushing for an E15 bill. I guess I would have had to import my fuel from another state as my Audi's warranty is void if we use anything more than E10.

[Iwannacamp]

Some stations are adding non-methanol/ethanol pumps and tanks. One of the EZ-mart stores here spent a lot of money doing this just months ago...tells me there is a large demand. I glanced the other day and there was about .25 per gal difference.

Side note: a lot of gasoline producers inject propane to improve octane. I was told by a Mobil station owner. Hence the stinky gas

[garbonz]

Originally Posted by brianjames

Depends on the price. When E85 is 20% less than the standard E10, it is a wash. And if your vehicle is made to run on it why not use it and support an american jobs rather than foreign oil?

Please don't start the debate about ethanol reducing the supply or raising the price of feed or food: Ethanol subsidies have expired, corn prices are the lowest they have been in 3 years, and they are still able to produce ethanol for a profit (there is demand).

And please don't start the debate about it taking more energy to produce than you receive. It simply isn't true. Modern farming practices have increased yields with less energy inputs every year. Fertilizer use has declined ~50% per bushel in the past 30-years. Ethanol plant efficiencies have also increased - most producing 120%+ of their design capacities. And ethanol plants also produce valuable co-products for feed and alternate energy sources.

I have a 2007 Jeep and a 2011 GMC that are both Flex Fuel and can run on anything up to E85 and I haven't had any issues using it. I use it when the price difference is at least 15% (which has been about 50% of the time, in Iowa).

I believe that 20% is a maximum drop in fuel efficiency when using E85. I've found it to be ~15% less in both of my vehicles. The drop is less when towing compared to towing with standard E10.

It is also a proven fact that ethanol burns cleaner than gas. Even when you factor in the loss of efficiency, ethanol reduces greenhouse gas emissions by over 30% compared to gasoline. Ethanol is non-toxic, water soluble and quickly biodegradable. Say that for oil.

All that said, I wouldn't use it in any engine that it wasn't made for. Especially engines that are not regularly used - like lawn and garden equipment because it can gum up carburetors when it sits for longer periods of time. If used regularly E10 and maybe even E15 are fine.

As you can tell, telling someone on this forum to NOT say something doesn't usually have the desired effect...

. Subsidies as a whole have not ended.
. Ethanol is a big business (agribusiness and Archer-Daniels) subsidy in a very big way. It took a substantial lobby to get it going and keep it up as it makes NO economic sense. It is not about farming it's about big chemical plants.
. No more or less polluting than oil manufacturing, lots of biased stats out there inculing some posted here.
. Only lowers emission on old pre emission controlled cars, current cars adjust the air fuel ratio to compensate.
. Horrible for all small engines.
. Great to add a little bit to the intake of a diesel engine, but not much interest out there.
. The new trend for energy in the future is horizontal drilling and fracking, neither which is new, but combined they let one surface drilling site cover an entire square mile or more of subsurface deposits. It is no more dangerous than conventional drilling, which does depend on strict government controls to safeguard the water aquifers, as it always has. It will be 50 years before we exhaust all the new supplies accessible with this technology.

Just my opinion, of course, based on nearly 40 years of experience with all of these area's of endevour. Your experience may vary.

Get a diesel and avoid the problem altogether...

[garbonz]

Originally Posted by brianjames

All depends on the price. I only run E85 when the price difference is at or near the mileage difference. And I feel good that I'm supporting an american industry and not foreign oil.

AHHH. Not when we are borrowing foreign money (read Chinese) to support the subsidies. AND more than 50% of the oil is domestically produced AND increasing with the advancements in horizontal drilling and fracking...