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Old 10-04-2022, 04:40 PM   #1
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Anyone own a late model Lincoln Aviator?

Short story is, we are considering replacing my wife's 2012 BMW X5 with something.

We like having the nicer interiors etc so leaning again towards the luxury side of things if we can find a good deal. Also, while I am not fooled that literally nothing is made in America anymore, I would at least prefer to support an American company, but open to other ideas as well. We like the BMW, but parts are just crazy expensive, if you can work on them yourself at all.

We once owned a Land Rover LR3 and loved it when it was doing good and hated it when it wasn't. And it wasn't quite a lot, but I have heard reliability is getting better with them.

Lexus (I know, not American, but uber reliable).

Just looking for people with personal experience.

Thanks!
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Old 10-04-2022, 04:46 PM   #2
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Is this for towing?
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Old 10-05-2022, 09:49 AM   #3
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No sir, it is not. Would be nice if it can tow a bit, but our X5 doesn't have that capability.
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Old 10-05-2022, 10:33 AM   #4
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Don't be fooled - the big germans are actually tow beasts, with limits approaching that of some 1-tonners.

I've had a little experience with the Lincolns - they are nice, and miles beyond where they were not but a decade ago. Caddy has really upped their game, too.

What are the criteria for the replacement car? Basically mid-to-large lux (or near lux) SUV, in line with the X5, with reliability? Are you looking new or used? Any other thoughts?
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Old 10-05-2022, 11:21 AM   #5
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I can imagine that some of the German rigs can tow well. I just couldn't justify the $1000 kit to add a hitch to ours. And being diesel, the torque is there. But again, I have an F350 diesel for towing.

Yeah, a close replacement in terms of size and options to our X5. My wife wants to maintain the HUD (Heads up display) along with heated and cooled front seats (at a minimum) and steering wheel. She's not a techy person, but I think she might like Apple Car play, which is probably a given on vehicles in this range

Fuel mileage is a mild concern, but I don't want electric or even hybrid options. X5 usually is in the low 20's, but can get into the upper 20's on slower road trips. And I LOVE the power. I hate that it eats tires. We have the staggered wheel setup and the rear tires are 4ft wide it seems and I don't ever track the mileage, but I'm not sure we get 20k miles out of a set of expensive tires. However, I have OE 18" wheels for winter use and this winter will be only the second set of winter tires I ever bought for it since winter of 2012.

Yes, reliability! I'm not afraid of normal maintenance when I have to pay for it, so long as I don't have to buy $1000 computer to reset the service reminders. But I think I'd trade some performance to gain some reliability.

I'd love to stick with a diesel, but they are harder to come by and the emissions systems are too unreliable anymore.

I am a blue-oval guy, so that is why I am most interested in the Lincoln. My wife isn't so impressed as she doesn't like the shape. However, she has never been able to really look at one in person, so I hope to change that. Almost goes without saying that I am not a big fan of the bow-tie. Have a friend buy a new Caddy Escalade last year and it was certainly nice the one time I rode in it, but that is too big for our needs.

new or used: Used prices are crazy high, so I have seen where $5k gets a brand new one over the used one on the lot. I want something well within the factory warranty to make sure the bugs are worked out, so certainly very low miles.

I did see a list where the Q7 made the top for best mid-size lux. I like the looks of them, but where are they on reliability and how expensive are parts?

My list to look at so far include:
Lincoln Aviator
Volvo XC90
Audi Q7
Land Rover Discovery (maybe the defender, but I don't think she likes the look and where is reliability?)
Range Rover Sport (reliability?)
Lexus GX & LX
Mercedes GLS
BMW X5 - although low on my list.
Jaguar F-Pace? Doubt this is big enough and maintenance costs have to be high!
Porsche Cayenne?
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Old 10-05-2022, 07:13 PM   #6
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I can imagine that some of the German rigs can tow well. I just couldn't justify the $1000 kit to add a hitch to ours. And being diesel, the torque is there. But again, I have an F350 diesel for towing.

Yeah, a close replacement in terms of size and options to our X5. My wife wants to maintain the HUD (Heads up display) along with heated and cooled front seats (at a minimum) and steering wheel. She's not a techy person, but I think she might like Apple Car play, which is probably a given on vehicles in this range

Fuel mileage is a mild concern, but I don't want electric or even hybrid options. X5 usually is in the low 20's, but can get into the upper 20's on slower road trips. And I LOVE the power. I hate that it eats tires. We have the staggered wheel setup and the rear tires are 4ft wide it seems and I don't ever track the mileage, but I'm not sure we get 20k miles out of a set of expensive tires. However, I have OE 18" wheels for winter use and this winter will be only the second set of winter tires I ever bought for it since winter of 2012.

Yes, reliability! I'm not afraid of normal maintenance when I have to pay for it, so long as I don't have to buy $1000 computer to reset the service reminders. But I think I'd trade some performance to gain some reliability.

I'd love to stick with a diesel, but they are harder to come by and the emissions systems are too unreliable anymore.

I am a blue-oval guy, so that is why I am most interested in the Lincoln. My wife isn't so impressed as she doesn't like the shape. However, she has never been able to really look at one in person, so I hope to change that. Almost goes without saying that I am not a big fan of the bow-tie. Have a friend buy a new Caddy Escalade last year and it was certainly nice the one time I rode in it, but that is too big for our needs.

new or used: Used prices are crazy high, so I have seen where $5k gets a brand new one over the used one on the lot. I want something well within the factory warranty to make sure the bugs are worked out, so certainly very low miles.

I did see a list where the Q7 made the top for best mid-size lux. I like the looks of them, but where are they on reliability and how expensive are parts?

My list to look at so far include:
Lincoln Aviator
Volvo XC90
Audi Q7
Land Rover Discovery (maybe the defender, but I don't think she likes the look and where is reliability?)
Range Rover Sport (reliability?)
Lexus GX & LX
Mercedes GLS
BMW X5 - although low on my list.
Jaguar F-Pace? Doubt this is big enough and maintenance costs have to be high!
Porsche Cayenne?
Wife has a Discovery and no issues the last 4 yrs. I'm looking at a Defender with tow package which would give me about another 1K; not that I really need it. Think the Rover Sport looks better than Disco but I'm liking the Defender but not every color or trim looks good.

Swung by the dealer today and they had someone there with a Defender and close to what I wanted in a nice Carpathian Grey. This is the trim I'm on the hunt for. Not much stock for months.


Saw this on the road last week.


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Old 10-05-2022, 07:40 PM   #7
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I've had 3 BMW x5's, one gas and two diesels. I loved the diesels, but found that it's a fools game. You get all that torque and the wonderful fuel mileage but in both units, there was substantial cost.



The first one required a DPF at 168k miles with an estimated cost of almost $5k.I traded it for another one and got, if memory serves something like $7k for it.The second got to75k miles at which time it needed all injectors. Only because I was a repeat customer was I able to get some "good will" and avoid spending $2k.


I looked at a lot of different units and almost bought a Q7. I would have no reservations with them as I have owned 3 Audi's, one of the original V8 Quattros, a 2002 A8 that we received excellent service from, and presently a 2015 S8 that I think is the finest sedan available, to me, far superior than a Benz.


Anyway, I now have a 2017 Cayenne which happens to be a Turbo. If you enjoyed the way the X7 drove, I suggest you make it a point to drive a Cayenne. Mine is a 958 body style which has all of the buttons in the center console and heads up displays are not available. You'd have to get a newer one with the haptic keys on a piano black console (that doesn't appeal to me) to get the heads up display.


The last X5 I had did have heads up as does the S8, but frankly, the driving experience of the Cayenne trumps the X5 all day long and I was willing to give up the HUD easily. Go drive a Cayenne. They can tow 7700 lbs!



There's a 2016 GTS for sale on PCA (Porsche Club of America) classifieds for $65k w/27k miles. https://mart.pca.org/ads/58350
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Old 10-10-2022, 11:09 PM   #8
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Well, we are narrowing down our list. Inventory is dismal at best!

Audi Q7 - this is where we are likely headed. Found a nice Premium Plus that has the colors we want and only short a few features like cooled front seats and heated 2nd row seats.

Lincoln Aviator - We simply can't find one to look at, much less drive. None! Frustrating since I've had my eyes on this ride for a few years now.

We just knocked the F-pace off the list today. It is a sweet ride and comes with 5yr/60k miles of maintenance and warranty. I fear it is just smaller than we want and no 3rd row option. Significant difference in the engine options too; 200hp vs 400. But a real joy to drive and I think it looks great! If we were to throw practicality out the window, this is probably where we would have landed.

Land Rover/Range Rover - just can't find anything that matches our criteria.

Volvo XC90 - Seats just didn't feel right. Too tight on the hips and we aren't big people. And only found the one to drive locally.

We didn't pursue the X5 as I am ready for something different. She would have been happy with another.

We also didn't want look too closely at the Cayenne. I'm sure they are amazing, but I fear maintenance costs/ parts costs.

We also drove a Subaru Ascent Touring (top package). A descent car for sure, but lacks any real power. And just not on the same playing field as the others.
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Old 10-11-2022, 06:18 AM   #9
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I had a navigator, with a 5.4 liter V8 engine, it was a tow hauling beast,...
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:20 AM   #10
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Well, we are narrowing down our list. Inventory is dismal at best!

Audi Q7 - this is where we are likely headed. Found a nice Premium Plus that has the colors we want and only short a few features like cooled front seats and heated 2nd row seats.

(snip)

We also didn't want look too closely at the Cayenne. I'm sure they are amazing, but I fear maintenance costs/ parts costs.

We also drove a Subaru Ascent Touring (top package). A descent car for sure, but lacks any real power. And just not on the same playing field as the others.
Not sure if you're looking new or used, but...

I actually tow with my '17 Q7 (an absolutely loaded up Prestige). Comfy, easy to live with, BRILLIANT chassis (and engineering/build quality0, lives large but drives small, not all that fast, but a decent cruiser ... and that typically thoughtful audi interior. New models have the glass cockpit interior for controls and the like, I prefer the pre-facelift (2015-2020) 4M with more dedicated physical controls. Cooled fronts are a nice treat, but only okay (the leather MUCH wears faster and a lot of stuff can get trapped in the holes) but the heated rears makes for much happier passenger compartment. I've rocked the 3rd row only a couple of times, they mostly stay flat. '17 3.0 is supercharged, post-facelift (2020+) is turbo. Real world is that the engines drive similarly, but the turbo is a nice change (plus if you keep your foot out of it, you can get decent mpgs a touch easier than with the Scharged).

Porsche shares the same platform, though the interior belongs to them, as does the parts/labor costs and some of the engines (audi does the V6 for both). Not bad to shop here, plus you can get into that Turbo level easier/earlier, but you're right: there is a price premium for that Crest. If you want the platform, the Q7 is the entry point.

Also in the family is a loaded Subie Outback - your feedback is close to our experience: decentish, but no driving experience (numb steering, numb ride, CVT lols), plus plasticky and a little less quality than, say, a comparable Honda. Unless you're in love with the brand, I'd migrate away from them.

Savage Geese did a real looksee at the Q7, worth a watch:



Just my .02, hope this helps. Good luck!
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Old 10-12-2022, 01:01 PM   #11
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Rhumblefish - I value your feedback; thank you! We almost came home with the new '22 Q7 last night, but much to our frustration and evening wasted, the dealer wouldn't work with us on taxes as we are non-residents of the state we live in and our sales tax is significantly less. So we are trying to get answers and proof that we can do it the way we propose...

Anyway, we aren't locked into new or used, but want low miles - like less than 20k and in great condition. We found a '21 Prestige in the exact same color combo as the 22 above, and it is right at the 20k miles, but has some pretty good wear (scratched rear bumper and marker lense broke among other small cosmetic issues) as well as an SOS malfunction - which has me worried based on my research. His price has significant "market adjustment" on it, so he would have to drop about $6k for us to be enticed.

The video was full of great info. Thanks!
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Old 10-13-2022, 12:16 PM   #12
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With inventory low and discovering that WA does not allow military personnel to "opt out" of state taxes, we decided to move forward with the Q7.

New 2022 Q7 55 Premium Plus. Sorry, the only pic I have currently as we were at the dealer until way too late!


I was shocked to learn the costs of the first 4 services required (one every 10k or 1yr). The first two oil changes, while expensive for just that, aren't horrible, but the 3rd was near $800 and the 4th, was something around $1700!! That appears to be a full tune-up. We opted for a package that covers the first four services.

We also got them to throw in front window tint, weathertech floor liners, and a couple Audi ballcaps. We bought a clearplate (clearbra) package that covers the front bumper, a couple feet up the hood, front fenders, front of mirrors, door cups, and door edges. Wanted to do entire hood, but it was an extra $1000!! I may add A-pillars to that at some point??
We also opted for the extended warranty to 10yrs, 100k miles. And we bought the windshield protection. So it should be a pretty worry-free experience for quite some time! We are excited to put some seat time in it!!
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Old 10-13-2022, 01:03 PM   #13
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Lincoln Aviator is a $35,000 Ford Explorer dressed up like an "exotic dancer." Like most quasi SUVs it's essentially a station wagon. If you're looking for an $80,000 Explorer this is what you want. No more capable, of course but more yacht club cred.

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Old 10-13-2022, 03:32 PM   #14
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Q7 is a nice ride (and with this selection, you got the "entry level" to the platforum, considering the Cayenne, Bentayga, and the Urus all share it). How'd you option it?

Extended warranty is worth its weight in gold, so long as they'll cover you. Who issued it/backs it (certainly not Audi)? Watch for front brake squeal (there's a recall for it, free replacement of pads and new/redesigned clips) and LED internal lighting failure (easy to fix under warranty). For the 4M, Audi Connect and access to Google maps has been a little wonky as they age, but Audi has done a good job on workarounds. Let me know if you have any questions on the platform.

re: the Explorer vs the Aviator... badge engineering has changed since Chuck visited the Ford Dealership. Used to be some different paint and a few pieces of trim made for a different car. Nowadays - and depending how they're specc'd - the Aviator can be had with a ~25% power advantage over the Ford (400 vs 494hp), and almost the same % higher tow rating (5,600 vs 6,700lbs).
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Old 10-20-2022, 07:45 PM   #15
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Aviator

Got the wife a 2020 Black Label with only 5K owned by dealers wife in 2021. She loves the car and we have taken several long trips with it. You don’t arrive beat to death from the ride and the service has been really good. I understand that it is “just a souped up explore” but for us and at our ‘em age it’s worth every bit of price. Great ride
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Old 10-21-2022, 07:42 PM   #16
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Got the wife a 2020 Black Label with only 5K owned by dealers wife in 2021. She loves the car and we have taken several long trips with it. You don’t arrive beat to death from the ride and the service has been really good. I understand that it is “just a souped up explore” but for us and at our ‘em age it’s worth every bit of price. Great ride
Yeah, it's not a truck and you survive.
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Old 10-21-2022, 08:39 PM   #17
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Yeah, it's not a truck and you survive.
It’s the wife’s truck, in fact she turned down the MKC and got her first MKX because her wheelbarrow for her Master Gardener programs would not fit in it, LOL.
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Old 10-22-2022, 09:29 AM   #18
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We have a 2013 Lincoln MKT, fully loaded with the 3.5L eco boost twin turbo with 110K miles on it. The finest vehicle I have ever owned. The MKT is a less tall version of cross over style SUV and yes it is like an older station wagons. It gets 22 to 25 mpg and is very quick in acceleration. It was discontinued in 2019 I believe and is replaced by the Aviator, because people wanted the taller SUV type vehicles. Get over it people, more streamlined, more fuel mileage. We take more road trips now because of comfort of this vehicle.
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Old 10-24-2022, 11:31 AM   #19
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Q7 is a nice ride (and with this selection, you got the "entry level" to the platforum, considering the Cayenne, Bentayga, and the Urus all share it). How'd you option it?

Extended warranty is worth its weight in gold, so long as they'll cover you. Who issued it/backs it (certainly not Audi)? Watch for front brake squeal (there's a recall for it, free replacement of pads and new/redesigned clips) and LED internal lighting failure (easy to fix under warranty). For the 4M, Audi Connect and access to Google maps has been a little wonky as they age, but Audi has done a good job on workarounds. Let me know if you have any questions on the platform.
It's a premium plus in gray with black interior. Considered waiting for the Prestige in white/black that was to arrive in Nov, but decided this was plenty nice for a better price being that it is a '22. We had the salesman throw in Weather tech floor liners and front window tint. We added a clear-bra, a rear cargo liner and will add a clear-bra to the headlight lenses.

Gee - I will look at the warranty. I assumed it was Audi backed, but will have to look at our paperwork. I know I bought one for the X5 a few years ago and they went belly-up (probably the plan all along) and took a lot of my money with them. We had one for an old LR3 back in the day and they were good to us. Paid for itself at least one time over.

We just got back for a week-long vacation so really not a lot of seat time. Plus being her car, I won't get a lot of seat time.

Thanks for the info! I'll be sure to hit you up with any questions.
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Old 10-26-2022, 12:54 PM   #20
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The warranty is called "Audi Pure Protection" and carries a $250 deductible.
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