Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-23-2020, 01:20 PM   #21
NXR
Senior Member
 
NXR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Family room couch
Posts: 3,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by formerFR View Post
I always read these with a grain of salt, as I'm not sure how someone would 'hear' something from 'a lot' of people about their RVs... how would you know that?? It makes me wonder how 'talk' gets started, and then people 'worry' for no real reason. Maybe a single RV had a 'blown fuse', maybe not even anything to do with the 'campground', yet it suddenly becomes a 'campground' issue??
You should talk to your RV neighbors more often.

"Is your water off?" is a common one we experience and people just come outside and start asking each other.

At a KOA last year we had repeated brownouts in our section and people were coming out asking if our lights were dim or going bright and dim. We had the issue on one side of the 50-amp service one day and on the other leg the next day and it usually happened around dinner time.

Having built, repaired and designed DC power supplies in my lifetime, "highly regulated" may be accurate but only within the design parameters of the system. If the converter is designed to run between 105 and 130 VAC, for example, then it is highly possible that a drop of the input voltage outside that range will result in a drop in the output voltage of the converter. Even if it is within design parameters that does not mean the voltage is nailed solid. There always is a variance tolerance even during normal operation.

This link is for our converter but you'll notice it claims a fixed output voltage of 13.6 VDC. Until you delve into the manual you don't find out that the output voltage is designed to vary to avoid boiling the batteries long-term. https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/po...vertercharger/

When our converter goes into "storage mode" and the voltage drops from 14.1 VDC to 13.1 VDC our interior LED lights are noticeably dimmer.

To a layperson "fuse" and "breaker" are synonymous.

Ray
__________________
2020 Georgetown GT5 34H5
NXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 01:37 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJKris View Post
I also like looking at display on EMS and seeing how may volts are being supplied, and more so, how many amps I am drawing, because it gets pretty easy to draw a lot of amps with A/C on, or electric heating. Particularly important at home, since I only have 20 amp service to hook up to.

Agreed. Good point Kris.
__________________
2018 Rockwood Signature Ultra Lite 8311WS
2014 Coachmen Apex 215RBK

2018 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT Duramax
Chazman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 01:39 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
Very hard to believe that a voltage surge on the 120VAC would have blown fuses in the 12VDC side of things.
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 01:51 PM   #24
NXR
Senior Member
 
NXR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Family room couch
Posts: 3,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by babock View Post
Very hard to believe that a voltage surge on the 120VAC would have blown fuses in the 12VDC side of things.
Right, but an open neutral on one of the campground transformers would have doubled everyone's voltage and that sure could, because the converters could be operating outside of their design limits.

"Surge" to me means "fast rise time, millisecond duration, and fast fall time pulse" but to almost anyone else it means a sudden change in the power regardless of the duration.

A friend had this happen at his home last summer. Fortunately he was home and is an electrician. He also lives in a rural section of his state and has a whole-house standby generator. He saw the sudden increase in light brilliance, ran to the garage, and tripped the main breaker. He then measured the voltage and saw it was an open neutral.

He fired up his natural gas generator and turned the main breaker on and all was normal and nothing was damaged. His over-voltage duration probably was less than fifteen seconds.

The electric company came out and he explained what happened. They were skeptical but listened because he talked their language. The electric company found that the neutral line running under his driveway had a break in it. They repaired it by running a new feed from the transformer entirely. They paid for it all, fortunately.

Ray
__________________
2020 Georgetown GT5 34H5
NXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 01:54 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
Right, but an open neutral on one of the campground transformers would have doubled everyone's voltage and that sure could.
That would double the voltage relative to ground but not sure the converter would be seeing that voltage.
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 02:11 PM   #26
NXR
Senior Member
 
NXR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Family room couch
Posts: 3,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by babock View Post
That would double the voltage relative to ground but not sure the converter would be seeing that voltage.
A house or 50-amp RV circuit breaker box has one side wired to leg #1 of the incoming power, the other side wired to leg #2 of the incoming power, with the neutral being a common connection for all outlets and circuits. The current flow is normally "From one circuit breaker through the appliance or whatever and back to the neutral".

When the neutral goes away the current flow is now "From a circuit breaker on leg #1 through the appliance or whatever, through the neutral bus bar, and back out all of the circuit breakers on leg #2". And vice versa. That's how the voltage doubles.

The ground connection is far from a perfect conductor and the ground and neutral in an RV electrical system are not connected together. The ground connection is for safety purposes only to reduce the intensity of a shock from defective appliances.

If there is only one leg in use, such as a 30-amp RV circuit, you're in much better shape with an open neutral because the power flow will cease.

Make sense?

Ray
__________________
2020 Georgetown GT5 34H5
NXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 02:25 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
A house or 50-amp RV circuit breaker box has one side wired to leg #1 of the incoming power, the other side wired to leg #2 of the incoming power, with the neutral being a common connection for all outlets and circuits. The current flow is normally "From one circuit breaker through the appliance or whatever and back to the neutral".

When the neutral goes away the current flow is now "From a circuit breaker on leg #1 through the appliance or whatever, through the neutral bus bar, and back out all of the circuit breakers on leg #2". And vice versa. That's how the voltage doubles.

The ground connection is far from a perfect conductor and the ground and neutral in an RV electrical system are not connected together. The ground connection is for safety purposes only to reduce the intensity of a shock from defective appliances.

If there is only one leg in use, such as a 30-amp RV circuit, you're in much better shape with an open neutral because the power flow will cease.

Make sense?

Ray
Yes...it does. Was thinking about my own 30A trailer but yes that could happen with a 50A trailer.



120V from one side would have to flow through an appliance or load to the neutral and then through another load or appliance to the other hot side. My guess is you wouldn't see a doubling but something inbetween depending on what the loads are.
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 02:30 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: WI
Posts: 294
This has been a great conversation about how the individual campers may protect their units.

I am now getting some Campground Owner feedback that could correct many of these potential issues should any others know how to suggest certain actions - FEEDBACK: was that it was caused by "How do you stop lightning from the ground. It's about the only solution " ...
__________________
Sierra Destination Camper - 2017 401 FLX
dcavaiani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 02:58 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
If there is lightning in the area, not much you can do except in plug.
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 03:18 PM   #30
NXR
Senior Member
 
NXR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Family room couch
Posts: 3,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by babock View Post
120V from one side would have to flow through an appliance or load to the neutral and then through another load or appliance to the other hot side. My guess is you wouldn't see a doubling but something in between depending on what the loads are.
Exactly. If both loads are precisely the same you would not see a doubling of voltage.

But the problem is that it becomes a series circuit so if one side is trying to pull 10 amps and the other side is trying to pull 1 amp, the one-amp thingie would see a massive increase in the current being yanked through its guts by the 10-amp thingie.

Since breakers are designed to protect wiring and not the things plugged into them, the breaker for the one-amp thingie would not trip and the thingie would get fried instead.

Yes, an bit of an over-simplification for illustration purposes because it presumes only two loads in total.

Ray
__________________
2020 Georgetown GT5 34H5
NXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 03:23 PM   #31
NXR
Senior Member
 
NXR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Family room couch
Posts: 3,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by babock View Post
If there is lightning in the area, not much you can do except unplug.
We were up by Lake Erie once when a massive lightning storm rolled in fast and at night. The power flickered in the motorhome a few times with nearby lightning strikes so I fired up the generator until the storm passed. That triggered the automatic transfer switch which hopefully would minimize the RV damage.

'Cause there was no way I was going outside to flip the breaker on the pedestal and unplug that cable in all of that rain and lightning. And my DW wouldn't do it either.

Ray
__________________
2020 Georgetown GT5 34H5
NXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 05:30 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
We were up by Lake Erie once when a massive lightning storm rolled in fast and at night. The power flickered in the motorhome a few times with nearby lightning strikes so I fired up the generator until the storm passed. That triggered the automatic transfer switch which hopefully would minimize the RV damage.

'Cause there was no way I was going outside to flip the breaker on the pedestal and unplug that cable in all of that rain and lightning. And my DW wouldn't do it either.

Ray
I sure would have! Way safer than waiting! And I would not rely on the transfer switch providing much isolation. The gap in the transfer switch relay is tiny if you are worrying about a large voltage spike passing across it.
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 05:43 PM   #33
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 60
April Campground Power Surge

Hi Folks!
Fool me twice?? We were struck by lightning 2X, once in AL, and then again in WI. In WI it was a big one, burnt out all our appliances. Fortunately insurance covered it, but I still had to pay $500 deductible. A good surge protector is the answer, PLUS get a voltage meter that plugs into your outlet. We have found that some campgrounds and even State Parks have unreliable and varying voltage and when it gets too low, especially during high use week-ends-down around 113 or 112, it could damage your high-draw appliances. Some RV and State Parks have blamed it on the regional power commission, needing to upgrade their grid (?).
ross0547 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 06:27 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by ross0547 View Post
Hi Folks!
Fool me twice?? We were struck by lightning 2X, once in AL, and then again in WI. In WI it was a big one, burnt out all our appliances. Fortunately insurance covered it, but I still had to pay $500 deductible. A good surge protector is the answer, PLUS get a voltage meter that plugs into your outlet. We have found that some campgrounds and even State Parks have unreliable and varying voltage and when it gets too low, especially during high use week-ends-down around 113 or 112, it could damage your high-draw appliances. Some RV and State Parks have blamed it on the regional power commission, needing to upgrade their grid (?).
How close was the lightning? Surge suppression in these devices, that are RV specific, aren't going to help with a close lightning strike. And if you have one that is semi close, you need to replace it.
babock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 07:01 PM   #35
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 60
Hi!
The first time was collateral damage from the RV next to us; however went up the pole and burnt our Converter. The second time went up the power cord, and yes killed the surge protector. We had to replace it. Insurance first question, "Are you all right!"
The first one, the poor folks next to us, their company dais, "Hmmm, sounds like and act of God!"
ross0547 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2020, 07:08 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 242
fyi

i have lost fireplace,microwave etc...installed a whole house surgr protector from home depot..havnt had a problemsince..good luck
__________________
Save a beer for me!!! Happy Trails....Be Safe....
sunnyinfla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2020, 07:49 PM   #37
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 4
Get a surge protector
bernardzargo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2020, 10:03 PM   #38
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hi in the Rockies
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by formerFR View Post
I always read these with a grain of salt, as I'm not sure how someone would 'hear' something from 'a lot' of people about their RVs... how would you know that?? It makes me wonder how 'talk' gets started, and then people 'worry' for no real reason. Maybe a single RV had a 'blown fuse', maybe not even anything to do with the 'campground', yet it suddenly becomes a 'campground' issue??

Over 100,000 miles over 5 years around this country and Canada and Alaska and many, many, many, many different campgrounds, both overnights, weekly, monthly, and seasonal, and rv parks and all sorts of 'interesting' electrical connection options, and NEVER any issue with surge, brownout, or otherwise more than a simple tripped breaker.

Don't overconsume yourself with what you 'hear', but what you know. Experience says that the very vast, vast majority of anyone camping or rving will never have any issue with 'electrical'... but, of course, the manufacturers of devices that somehow 'solve' these problems don't want you to think that way.

The REALITY is that it is highly unlikely you have any 'campground' issue - go, enjoy, don't worry. Fuses and breakers are there for a reason. Changing them is no real problem, the very rare time it may actually happen.
Don't need an EMS. Don't need life insurance either. I've lived 77 years and never needed it even once.
cekkk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2020, 10:05 PM   #39
NXR
Senior Member
 
NXR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Family room couch
Posts: 3,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by cekkk View Post
Don't need an EMS. Don't need life insurance either. I've lived 77 years and never needed it even once.
The EMS or the life insurance?

Ray
__________________
2020 Georgetown GT5 34H5
NXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2020, 08:50 PM   #40
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: north central Massachusetts
Posts: 5
We were at a good Sam rally in RI a few years ago, had electrical problem at fairground and some rigs ended getting high voltage and a lot of rigs got a lot of damage, they came to our rig to check voltage, read it on the EMS and said we should be OK as we were protected, we were in CT and campground had low voltage and EMS shut down to prevent damage, was a great investment and saved a lot money preventing damage, would not hitch up electric without it
Bull is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
campground, mpg, power

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:26 PM.