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Old 10-12-2020, 09:59 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
I have been indoctrinated to the standard configuration of all gas pumps that I have used, so perhaps this is my own fault. I am used to the lowest octane and cheapest gasoline always being the leftmost selection on the gas pump buttons. While on a trip in the west US west, I pulled into a Chevron station and habitually punched the leftmost octane selection without looking at the octane numbers. After filling the tank, and noting the price, I saw that I had used the premium gas and spent an extra $27+as a consequence. I just wonder if Chevron reversed from the most common button position to get marginal revenue from mistaken octane selections.
On the subject of gasolune, I just recently found out that there is a "Top Tier" rating on gasoline. Top Tier gas has additives that exceed EPA standards. It is now recommended by most auto manufacturers. Check the pump.and see If the gas is rated Top Tier. You can Google Top Tier gasoline and reads the Consumer Report to find the brand's that are certified Top Tier.
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Old 10-12-2020, 10:08 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by F.R.O.G. View Post
I wonder how much of that is the gas tax.
I have been trying to figure out where on the east coast (of the US?) gas is $4.50/gal. In WA we have the 4th highest gas taxes in the country and name-brand gas in my town is under 3 bucks a gallon.
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Old 10-12-2020, 10:12 PM   #63
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On the subject of gasolune, I just recently found out that there is a "Top Tier" rating on gasoline. Top Tier gas has additives that exceed EPA standards. It is now recommended by most auto manufacturers. Check the pump.and see If the gas is rated Top Tier. You can Google Top Tier gasoline and reads the Consumer Report to find the brand's that are certified Top Tier.
I’m well aware that Top Tier exists and most auto manufactures endorse it. While on paper Top Tier may look impressive, I’ve used plenty of Top Tier and plenty of non Top Tier and cannot tell any difference in engine performance, reliability, or life span.
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Old 10-12-2020, 10:23 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Qwkynuf View Post
I have been trying to figure out where on the east coast (of the US?) gas is $4.50/gal. In WA we have the 4th highest gas taxes in the country and name-brand gas in my town is under 3 bucks a gallon.
According to this map from TaxFoundation.org, PA is the second highest in the country, after CA. Surprisingly, at least to me, NY only comes in at #7.
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Old 10-13-2020, 03:26 AM   #65
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Beware of BP stations! Everywhere else diesel is the green pump handle. At BP gasoline is green.
That is not correct. We have a couple stations locally that have a Yellow Diesel handle and green handles for gasoline.

Read the pump!!

Pay attention to what you are doing, as if it matters...........Because it DOES!
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Old 10-13-2020, 07:03 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Qwkynuf View Post
I have been trying to figure out where on the east coast (of the US?) gas is $4.50/gal. In WA we have the 4th highest gas taxes in the country and name-brand gas in my town is under 3 bucks a gallon.
In Ohio, they recently raised taxes about 11 cents per gallon (AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!). We are currently hovering right around $2 per gallon. So, if you around $3 per gallon, yeah, I bet you have some whopping taxes on your gas.

Added: Based on Bob’s chart, I’d say that Ohio went from about #31 to #12 with that stunt. Adding in the federal 18.4 cents per gallon tax puts Ohio right at 57 cents total. That’s about 40% being added to the base price of a gallon without tax.
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Old 10-13-2020, 09:40 AM   #67
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The one thing I learned out west is look at the numbers, not just the label. I was heading to Utah with my F150 towing my trailer and hit a Kum and go(what a Strange Name) and tapped the regular button. The label above each button, regular, mid, premium, and not looked at the button with the actual octane. Just one of those out of habit things, what one is used to, regular being 87 octane. Well, didn't notice until I got to the next fuel stop and it dawned on me why the truck was running hot, The regular was 85 octane in that area. Mid grade was 87, and premium 89. Three of the stations I stopped at along that route did not have 91 or higher octane, so I could not fully flush out the low octane fuel for at least two tanks, so the truck ran hotter than it should all the way into Utah. Once I finally found a station that had 91, I filled up and the truck ran so much better.

That is something to keep in mind as well, double check that the regular is the same octane as what you normally use. That was a facepalm moment for me.
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Old 10-13-2020, 11:46 AM   #68
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We used to have a “STAR” program in my industry. stop, think, act, review.

We have the same program where I work. We also have the "Take Two" program where you take some time to think about things before you take action.


At this stage though, STAR is more appropriately Start Thinking About Retirement.
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Old 10-13-2020, 12:07 PM   #69
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We recently had an active thread along these lines.
https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...rs-217162.html.
The general consensus seemed to be "Buyer Beware".

de facto
de jure
caveat emptor


I'm getting a good language and phrase review on this thread.
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Old 10-13-2020, 12:08 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Bhrava View Post
The one thing I learned out west is look at the numbers, not just the label. I was heading to Utah with my F150 towing my trailer and hit a Kum and go(what a Strange Name) and tapped the regular button. The label above each button, regular, mid, premium, and not looked at the button with the actual octane. Just one of those out of habit things, what one is used to, regular being 87 octane. Well, didn't notice until I got to the next fuel stop and it dawned on me why the truck was running hot, The regular was 85 octane in that area. Mid grade was 87, and premium 89. Three of the stations I stopped at along that route did not have 91 or higher octane, so I could not fully flush out the low octane fuel for at least two tanks, so the truck ran hotter than it should all the way into Utah. Once I finally found a station that had 91, I filled up and the truck ran so much better.

That is something to keep in mind as well, double check that the regular is the same octane as what you normally use. That was a facepalm moment for me.
That is an altitude thing. Gas is more volatile at higher altitudes.
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Old 10-13-2020, 01:28 PM   #71
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That is an altitude thing. Gas is more volatile at higher altitudes.

True, but central Nevada stations have the crappy 85 octane, and the altitude is the same as everywhere else in Nevada, 4-8,000ft, and the rest of us have 87 octane minimum.
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Old 10-13-2020, 01:34 PM   #72
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That is an altitude thing. Gas is more volatile at higher altitudes.
It's not the volatility, but the lack of O2 at higher altitudes that calls for reduced octane rating. Higher octane fuels burn slower, which in a high compression engine, a low octane fuel will pre-ignite, detonate, or cause pinging, etc. The less dense air creates a richer mixture for normally aspirated engines, which means it can burn the faster burning fuel without pinging or extreme timing changes, but in a forced induction, 10:1 compression engine with a tune for a specific minimum octane it can cause overly extended timing, which produces more heat and less power, requiring more fuel and more timing, which creates more heat. Something I knew, but wasn't paying attention to at the pump. In my case I should have run the premium going up the mountain, which was 89 octane, and it wouldn't have gotten so hot, especially considering it was triple digits that day, which makes the air even less dense.

A previous trip without towing or a tune in a 2012 EB F150, 85 worked just fine since I wasn't calling for a lot of power to go up the mountain.

Next trip up the IKE will be in a diesel, so won't have to worry about hitting the wrong octane button, just make sure it IS diesel when I fill.
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Old 10-13-2020, 09:32 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Bhrava View Post
It's not the volatility, but the lack of O2 at higher altitudes that calls for reduced octane rating. Higher octane fuels burn slower, which in a high compression engine, a low octane fuel will pre-ignite, detonate, or cause pinging, etc. The less dense air creates a richer mixture for normally aspirated engines, which means it can burn the faster burning fuel without pinging or extreme timing changes, but in a forced induction, 10:1 compression engine with a tune for a specific minimum octane it can cause overly extended timing, which produces more heat and less power, requiring more fuel and more timing, which creates more heat. Something I knew, but wasn't paying attention to at the pump. In my case I should have run the premium going up the mountain, which was 89 octane, and it wouldn't have gotten so hot, especially considering it was triple digits that day, which makes the air even less dense.

A previous trip without towing or a tune in a 2012 EB F150, 85 worked just fine since I wasn't calling for a lot of power to go up the mountain.

Next trip up the IKE will be in a diesel, so won't have to worry about hitting the wrong octane button, just make sure it IS diesel when I fill.
That doesn't explain why our premium at sea level is 90 octane. Regular is 87 octane and mid-grade is 88.5 octane.
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Old 10-14-2020, 09:03 AM   #74
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Premium can range from 90-93 octane, just depends on the station. Midgrade is actually blended at the pump between the regular and premium tanks.

The higher the octane, the slower burning the fuel is. At sea level O2 is at the highest, so lower octane will flash faster, running 85 at sea level can damage an engine. At high altitude, normally aspirated engines can't suck in enough air for the higher octane fuels, so 85 is used since it burns at the same rate at 5000 feet as 87 does at sea level, but doesn't work with a forced induction engine.
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Old 10-14-2020, 10:28 AM   #75
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Diesel is not always green.
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Old 10-14-2020, 10:38 AM   #76
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Just don't get caught with red diesel, or blue. make sure it is green if on the road.
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Old 10-14-2020, 11:32 AM   #77
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There seems to be no standard color for clean diesel pump handles, but there ought to be.
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Old 10-14-2020, 01:17 PM   #78
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There seems to be no standard color for clean diesel pump handles, but there ought to be.
Why should there be a standard? Why not read the label? What if a person is color blind and cannot distinguish the colors chosen for gas and diesel? What is so hard about reading the label?
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Old 10-14-2020, 02:10 PM   #79
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Why should there be a standard? Why not read the label? What if a person is color blind and cannot distinguish the colors chosen for gas and diesel? What is so hard about reading the label?
Exactly correct.

Sadly, the many mfgrs only use symbols instead of the words like on some powered lawn equipment ...no words on the switch for ON or OFF .. just a stupid symbol

Same with vehicles .. for lights, heater, A/C, etc.

I guess they 'expect' people to be stupid and unable to read.
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Old 10-14-2020, 03:35 PM   #80
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Exactly correct.

Sadly, the many mfgrs only use symbols instead of the words like on some powered lawn equipment ...no words on the switch for ON or OFF .. just a stupid symbol

Same with vehicles .. for lights, heater, A/C, etc.

I guess they 'expect' people to be stupid and unable to read.
In respect to this I understand why symbols are used. The products are shipped worldwide. The symbols are the most efficient way of communicating in multiple languages. This keeps costs down.

Imagine the number of buttons/labels needed to identify the rewind button on an iPod if labels were used. I know buttons are no longer on iPods, but this is for illustrative purposes only. Plus I'm old enough to remember buttons on consumer products. I like them.
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