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Old 09-20-2020, 02:20 PM   #1
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Brand New FR - raw sewage in shower! HELP!

I bought a brand new 2019 FR Salem FSX in March 2020. The trailer has been a huge disappointment with a mile long train-wreck of issues. Multiple water intrusion points, roof assembly issues, water damage, structural issues, broken hardware, appliance issues, slide issues, power awning factory installation issues, and overall abysmal build quality.

The latest is raw sewage coming up in my shower. I was filling the toilet continuously one day to thoroughly flush the blank tank and sewage started bubbling up in my shower pan. Apparently, the MORONS at the factory took a short cut and plumbed my shower and toilet together.
Which, as an aside, makes the trailer practically useless. I am single and use the trailer solo. Two very, very brief navy showers and 2 days of conservatively flushing the toilet and it's game over. Black tank is full and the dispersed camping trip is over. It's not a black tank sensor error b/c you can see the water welling up in the toilet flush tube after the sensor shows "full".
Also, black tank is supposed to be a 30 gallon black tank...but when I crawled under the trailer it's exactly HALF the size of my 40 gallon fresh...so I think the black tank might be just 20 gallon.

Gray tank with just the sink is always less than a third full on that same trip.

Does anyone know if this is a code violation? Since the industry is self-regulated (which is ridiculous) I don't think I have a leg to stand on. Is FR obligated to plumb this properly? (shower and sink to gray, toilet to black)

Are there any other owners out there that has the shower draining into the black tank? I've never heard of this before in my decade of trailer travel.

Looks like I'm going to eat yet another repair and have the trailer re-plumbed properly. Even trying to use the factory warranty has been a never-ending string of run-arounds...I've had to pay out of my own pocket to have the issues addressed. Insane.

I am soured by this experience and will never buy a FR or affiliate product ever again. My camping buddy just bought a FR toy hauler and he's had similar issues. Hugely disappointed.
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Old 09-20-2020, 02:32 PM   #2
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Sorry to hear about your issues. If the camper is still under warranty I'd be taking back to dealer to get corrected. If you get hard nose with these folks forget it they will take there sweet time making repairs. And if you bought from other than your local dealer good luck on that one as they usally do not like doing work on campers purchased from some other dealer. Later RJD
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Old 09-20-2020, 03:45 PM   #3
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Yup take it back to the dealer you bought it from.
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Old 09-20-2020, 08:42 PM   #4
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I had the opposite problem with my KZ black tank. The brochure and web site said it was an eight gallon tank. Turns out it is a 15 gallon tank.

My FE was supposed to come with a 36 gallon fresh water tank. For awhile I couldn't figure out why I never ran out of water. Turns out it has a 49 gallon tank.

In both instances it turns out the factory was ahead of marketing.
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Old 09-21-2020, 12:35 PM   #5
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A hose and a rv toilet never have a happy ending. Good thing you noticed quickly.
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:16 PM   #6
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The two tanks may share a roof vent. Over filling the black tank under pressure could force water up the vent and into the shower. Filling your tank under pressure is not a good idea.
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody View Post
The two tanks may share a roof vent. Over filling the black tank under pressure could force water up the vent and into the shower. Filling your tank under pressure is not a good idea.
Good points and makes sense to his issues otherwise I would think a lot more folks with these trailers would screaming.
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Old 09-21-2020, 03:48 PM   #8
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Umm...

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Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody View Post
The two tanks may share a roof vent. Over filling the black tank under pressure could force water up the vent and into the shower. Filling your tank under pressure is not a good idea.
Umm...wouldn't water flow out of the toilet before it got high enough to hit the black/gray vent crossover?
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody View Post
The two tanks may share a roof vent. Over filling the black tank under pressure could force water up the vent and into the shower. Filling your tank under pressure is not a good idea.
Quite possible, however I'd love to see a pic of the dump valves before I comment further.
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:31 PM   #10
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Sounds like its time to lawyer up. Stop paying for those repairs and get a lawyer.
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:35 PM   #11
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Umm...wouldn't water flow out of the toilet before it got high enough to hit the black/gray vent crossover?
Not unless they tried to flush it, and then stand clear!
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:46 PM   #12
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Contact Forest River if you get no help at the dealer. Have heard of the factory making repairs.
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Old 09-21-2020, 06:38 PM   #13
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My frustration is that some idiot at the factory took a short cut and plumbed the shower into the black tank. In all my years of reading, researching, and using travel trailers have I EVER heard of this. It's common knowledge that shower and sink goes to the gray tank and toilet goes to black.

Has anyone ever seen a factory trailer where gray water was plumbed to black? It literally makes the trailer useless after 2 days. Not to mention that they mislead me on the size of the black tank. 30 gallon on the build sheet and clearly a 20 gallon strapped under the trailer.

It's stunning that trailer manufacturers get away with this. It's extremely bad business.
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Old 09-21-2020, 07:07 PM   #14
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Yes I have heard of TTs have only one tank. Ours had one tank for everything but that was a few years ago.

Not so sure that a shower plumbed into a black tank is any type of code violation. .

I doubt someone accidentlly or took a short cut and plumbed the shower into the black tank. Something else is probably going on.
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Old 09-21-2020, 07:09 PM   #15
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It is common for the vent pipe to be shared. Water can only cross from one to the other if it is pressurized, as you stated you did.
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Old 09-21-2020, 07:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sconner View Post
I bought a brand new 2019 FR Salem FSX in March 2020. The trailer has been a huge disappointment with a mile long train-wreck of issues.
.
Also, black tank is supposed to be a 30 gallon black tank...but when I crawled under the trailer it's exactly HALF the size of my 40 gallon fresh...so I think the black tank might be just 20 gallon.


Does anyone know if this is a code violation? Since the industry is self-regulated (which is ridiculous) I don't think I have a leg to stand on. Is FR obligated to plumb this properly? (shower and sink to gray, toilet to black)


I am soured by this experience and will never buy a FR or affiliate product ever again. My camping buddy just bought a FR toy hauler and he's had similar issues. Hugely disappointed.
Your Fresh water tank is probably actually smaller than you think.... 32-35 gallons as when the specs say 40 gallons. Six of the gallons are in the water heater.

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Old 09-21-2020, 07:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Oaklevel View Post
Your Fresh water tank is probably actually smaller than you think.... 32-35 gallons as when the specs say 40 gallons. Six of the gallons are in the water heater.

Now that is something I never heard before, not that I doubt you but I just never thought of that or even heard it mentioned in all my years of RV. Is that something more on TTs or is that empirical evidence that applies to any RV with a fresh water tank?
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Old 09-21-2020, 07:49 PM   #18
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Now that is something I never heard before, not that I doubt you but I just never thought of that or even heard it mentioned in all my years of RV. Is that something more on TTs or is that empirical evidence that applies to any RV with a fresh water tank?
When then the specs of a camper of any type say the fresh water capacity is x , that is usually the fresh water tank plus the water heater capacity. Always has been. Note many of the threads on this form it comes up every now and then.

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Old 09-21-2020, 10:16 PM   #19
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Sometimes the shower or sink drains into black tank to provide more water into tank to help keep solids from building up and keeping it cleaner. That is how a motorhome we had was plumbed for that reason.
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Old 09-22-2020, 12:57 AM   #20
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Quote:
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When then the specs of a camper of any type say the fresh water capacity is x , that is usually the fresh water tank plus the water heater capacity. Always has been. Note many of the threads on this form it comes up every now and then.

That hasn't been my experience. I have seen trailers and campers quote the fresh water capacity and qualified it by stating that it includes the 6 or 10 gallons in the water heater. But without that qualifier, when fresh water capacity is stated, it means what the fresh water tank holds. Because, let's face it, that 6 or 10 gallons in the water heater is pretty useless without more water to push it through the lines.

My Freedom Express has a yellow sticker on the door that gives the weight with full water. When I divide that number by 8.34 it comes up with 55 gallons. My fresh water capacity, according to Forest River, is 49 gallons and I have a 6 gallon water heater. My KZ has a 20 gallon fresh water tank according to specs. I can actually see the water tank and it holds 20 gallons.
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