Breaker in coach tripping when AC and Electric Hot Water Tank on

[JF Happy Traveler]

I have a 2016 Wildwood travel trailer. My breakers trip when the AC and the hot water tank is on at the same time. Sometimes it is the main breaker in the coach and sometimes it is the AC and/or the hot water tank breaker. I believe everything is on its own circuit to my panel. Is it possible that this would trip because I am not getting enough power from the pedestal? The pedestal breaker never trips. Thank you in advance for any help I can get on this.

[houstonstroker]

What voltage are you seeing in your camper? When voltage drops at campgrounds amps go up.

[CHICKDOE]

some general thoughts:
try to minimize electric power usage!
turn the water heater to propane.
turn the refrigerator to propane.
use the microwave sparingly (you may have to turn the a/c off while using microwave).
you may also have the converter drawing electric power (not much you can do about it).

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by JF Happy Traveler

I have a 2016 Wildwood travel trailer. My breakers trip when the AC and the hot water tank is on at the same time. Sometimes it is the main breaker in the coach and sometimes it is the AC and/or the hot water tank breaker. I believe everything is on its own circuit to my panel. Is it possible that this would trip because I am not getting enough power from the pedestal? The pedestal breaker never trips. Thank you in advance for any help I can get on this.

At first thought/glance I figured you were just overloading the main 30 amp circuit by using too many appliances at the same time. However this shouldn't cause the water heater individual circuit breaker to trip (it's usually 15 amps).


If you are getting lower voltage from the pedestal, this does indeed cause the amps to rise, like in a motor..but shouldn't in a heating element. It should actually decrease the amps to the heating element if I'm thinking correct.


I'm thinking there may a problem with the heating element.


Can you turn the water heater to propane operation, and turn off the circuit breaker to the electric heating element and see if this stops the A/C from tripping.

[A32Deuce]

Another thing to consider. Every time a circuit breaker trips it gets a little weaker to a point that it almost trips looking at it. Just a thought since they don't use the best of parts in these units!

[Iwannacamp]

An AC amp meter isn’t expensive. DC...kinda. You could measure the amperage and find out what’s going on.

[Maggot]

One thing often over looked and needs to be kept in mind the 80% breaker rule. A 30 amp breaker should only be loaded to 24 amps.

[myredracer]

What are you plugged into? Whether it's a pedestal, receptacle at home or elsewhere, if the wiring back to the source/main panel is long, you could have excessive voltage drop. When voltage gets low, an AC unit draws more current and can trip a 30 amp breaker or even the 20 amp breaker for the AC unit in an RV's panel.

Do the breakers trip when the AC starts up or when it's been running for a while?

Dirty shore plug blades and receptacles in pedestals (or elsewhere) can contribute to voltage drop. Ensure your shore power plug blades are kept clean with some emery cloth or sandpaper.

Check the voltage inside your TT to ensure it's not too low. You never want to run below 105 volts as it can lead to damage to an AC unit over time. A permanently mounted LED voltmeter inside is always a good idea. Better still, get a PI EMS which will automatically shut you down on low voltage (and other parameters).

It sounds like you are simply drawing too much power. An electric in a HWT can be drawing 12.5 amps (will go down as voltage goes down). An AC unit will be drawing approx. 15 amps. The converter/charger will be drawing 1-8 amps depending on what 12 volt items are running. A fridge running on 120 volts will draw 2.5 amps. So right there you are drawing over 30 amps. Add to that, a coffee maker, toaster, TV, etc. and you're guaranteed to trip a breaker.

An AC unit draws 60+ amps momentary inrush current on startup (locked rotor amps). Depending on what other loads are running at the same time, you can trip a 30 amp breaker.

A 30 amp breaker should be able to operate at 30 amps indefinitely and an RV *should* be able to draw a full 3600 watts. A breaker can even run at slightly over it's rating for a short period, depending on the current level. Sometimes a breaker in a CG pedestal can get tired because they get switched on/off a lot plus they live in temp & humidity extremes summer - winter.

Run your HWT on propane and you should be fine. If not, there's something else going on. If you are experiencing low voltage, an autoformer may help.

[myredracer]

Originally Posted by A32Deuce

Another thing to consider. Every time a circuit breaker trips it gets a little weaker to a point that it almost trips looking at it. Just a thought since they don't use the best of parts in these units!

Sorry, but not quite true. Breakers are tested under the applicable UL/CSA to be able to withstand thousands of on/off cycles. The problem is that the breakers in CGs aren't designed for switching duty (available in 15 & 20 amp ratings tho.) plus they live outside in environmental extremes. The breakers in a pedestal should be turned off before plugging in (many don't know this). I've seen 30 amp breakers in pedestals so bad they won't turn on.

Originally Posted by Maggot

One thing often over looked and needs to be kept in mind the 80% breaker rule. A 30 amp breaker should only be loaded to 24 amps.

Sorry, but this isn't correct either. RVs are allowed to draw up to 30 amp per the NEC. The code requires an allowance of 3600 watts (30 amps) per RV for 30 amp RVs. The 80% rule applies to fixed loads and branch circuits in buildings. The NEC has now been revised to require a full 12,000 watts (50 + 50 amps) for 50 amp RVs.

[formerFR]

- if the campground pedestal breaker doesn't trip, then you are not exceeding the overall 30amp breaker's tripping point, meaning that what is happening is relegated to your RV.

- if your RVs main 30amp breaker is tripping, then you are using more 'overall' amps than it can provide... but that doesn't sound like your issue.

- if the Air Conditioner's 20amp breaker is tripping, then it sounds like you may have a 'loose' wire at it's breaker. Unplug and then remove your panel's cover. Check and tighten each breaker's wire, including the 30amp Main breaker. You may find that this is the culprit - it's happened to us.

- if the Water Heater has it's own 15amp breaker, then the same applies as above.
If the water heater shares it's power with outlets or some other appliance, then you could be asking too much of it while the water heater is actually 'heating' the water.

you could also send us a picture of your BREAKER Panel and we can all get a better 'picture' of your breaker labels and layout : )

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by myredracer

What are you plugged into? Whether it's a pedestal, receptacle at home or elsewhere, if the wiring back to the source/main panel is long, you could have excessive voltage drop. When voltage gets low, an AC unit draws more current and can trip a 30 amp breaker or even the 20 amp breaker for the AC unit in an RV's panel.

Do the breakers trip when the AC starts up or when it's been running for a while?

Dirty shore plug blades and receptacles in pedestals (or elsewhere) can contribute to voltage drop. Ensure your shore power plug blades are kept clean with some emery cloth or sandpaper.

Check the voltage inside your TT to ensure it's not too low. You never want to run below 105 volts as it can lead to damage to an AC unit over time. A permanently mounted LED voltmeter inside is always a good idea. Better still, get a PI EMS which will automatically shut you down on low voltage (and other parameters).

It sounds like you are simply drawing too much power. An electric in a HWT can be drawing 12.5 amps (will go down as voltage goes down). An AC unit will be drawing approx. 15 amps. The converter/charger will be drawing 1-8 amps depending on what 12 volt items are running. A fridge running on 120 volts will draw 2.5 amps. So right there you are drawing over 30 amps. Add to that, a coffee maker, toaster, TV, etc. and you're guaranteed to trip a breaker.

An AC unit draws 60+ amps momentary inrush current on startup (locked rotor amps). Depending on what other loads are running at the same time, you can trip a 30 amp breaker.

A 30 amp breaker should be able to operate at 30 amps indefinitely and an RV *should* be able to draw a full 3600 watts. A breaker can even run at slightly over it's rating for a short period, depending on the current level. Sometimes a breaker in a CG pedestal can get tired because they get switched on/off a lot plus they live in temp & humidity extremes summer - winter.

Run your HWT on propane and you should be fine. If not, there's something else going on. If you are experiencing low voltage, an autoformer may help.

A 30 amp breaker is not designed to run 30 amps indefinitely. Libert, Square D will verify that. They advised us to keep our loads at 80%.

This is in a very large datacenter with over 1000 circuits that I manage. Every datacenter I've ran we did it this way.

[formerFR]

I actually believe that breakers are NOT designed to immediately trip at the instance of reaching it's 'numbered' breaker size, but more as an overall long-term amperage/heat usage... meaning that a sudden amperage rush for just an instance is not going to trip the breaker, if it exceeds the stated size, but a consistent amps just above the stated size SHOULD, since, after all, THAT is what will heat up the wires, not a sudden and only 'instantaneous' usage.

But, having said that, I'm sure that any breaker manufacturer is going to 'tell' any customers that they should only use and expect 'less' than the stated amperage, for the sake of caution. The reality, though, is that some breakers will NOT immediately trip, some MAY, and others may act differently even due other reasons, such as the ambient temperature around them, especially in the hot summer months.

Yes, breakers can become weak with over usage, especially at campground and rv parks where they can be typically used so many more times than a breaker in your own home's panel. They then can show signs of weakness by 'tripping' too soon. They have a life expectancy, like most anything else. Replace it with a new one and I think you'll find that it doesn't break with anywhere close to the same frequency, or at all, with the same usage test, such as using two air conditioners on a 30amp outlet.

We can all assume that breakers are all the same, but the reality is that a breaker, such as a 30amp variety, should only trip when the usage amperage exceeds that number for a specific time, to protect the wires that lead back to it. The 'time' is the question. Some do this quicker than others.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by myredracer

Sorry, but not quite true. Breakers are tested under the applicable UL/CSA to be able to withstand thousands of on/off cycles. The problem is that the breakers in CGs aren't designed for switching duty (available in 15 & 20 amp ratings tho.) plus they live outside in environmental extremes. The breakers in a pedestal should be turned off before plugging in (many don't know this). I've seen 30 amp breakers in pedestals so bad they won't turn on.

Sorry, but this isn't correct either. RVs are allowed to draw up to 30 amp per the NEC. The code requires an allowance of 3600 watts (30 amps) per RV for 30 amp RVs. The 80% rule applies to fixed loads and branch circuits in buildings. The NEC has now been revised to require a full 12,000 watts (50 + 50 amps) for 50 amp RVs.

Ok. Maybe so. My work with breakers is not the same as RVs. I will have to look into this when I get some time.



Now I'm not saying what I use at work can not draw 30. I've seen them spike pretty high with an inrush fail over but only for a minuet or 2. And I'm just stating what the electrical gurus have told me for many decades in my profession.

[gbaldwin]

Agree with switch to propane for a while and watch. I use only propaane for HW. On only when about to shower. and turn it off when done. That water will stay how for 6-8 hours. Very economical. and fridg stays on gas as well. Or Auto.

[wmtire]

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[quicky06]

I’ve had several campground switch weak 30 amp breakers. Would trip the pedestal breaker randomly. I now use a 50 amp adapter when i plan on using the ac. I never exceed 30 amps, I have a main 30amp breaker. I have measured draw with everything running and it does not exceed 30amps.

My trailer does have an automatic switch to shut off the water heater when the microwave is used. This probably makes a big difference.

[Iwannacamp]

I miss all the good stuff [emoji17][emoji17][emoji17]

I do know one thing.... breakers running near max load DO get hot. One can usually tell if a circuit(I’m talking residential/light commercial) is near capacity/high amps as it will be hot.

[A32Deuce]

Originally Posted by myredracer

Sorry, but not quite true. Breakers are tested under the applicable UL/CSA to be able to withstand thousands of on/off cycles. The problem is that the breakers in CGs aren't designed for switching duty (available in 15 & 20 amp ratings tho.) plus they live outside in environmental extremes. The breakers in a pedestal should be turned off before plugging in (many don't know this). I've seen 30 amp breakers in pedestals so bad they won't turn on.

Sorry, but this isn't correct either. RVs are allowed to draw up to 30 amp per the NEC. The code requires an allowance of 3600 watts (30 amps) per RV for 30 amp RVs. The 80% rule applies to fixed loads and branch circuits in buildings. The NEC has now been revised to require a full 12,000 watts (50 + 50 amps) for 50 amp RVs.

Experence with breakers tripping and getting weaker. They do weaken!

[Iwannacamp]

Originally Posted by A32Deuce

Experence with breakers tripping and getting weaker. They do weaken!

I thought they did. I think the “proposed weakening” has to do with running near max capacity and “wearing out” over time.

Cavie will know...

[tomrob1161]

If your trailer is 30 amp, don't run the water heater on electric when you are using the A/C. with the water heater rated to draw 12 - 15 amps and your A/C rated to draw 15 - 17 amps, you are at or over your 30 amps.

Take a look at the attached "Don't blow your breaker"