Can you tow 38,000lbs with a F350?

[PodGeek]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

If skid marks were laid down they are most likely from the trailer...

Again, I'm going off the report that the trailer lacked "required brakes":

Gonzalez-Otazo is being held at the Carson City jail on more than 20 charges including:

...Required brakes missing on trailer...

https://mynews4.com/news/local/suspe...son-city-crash

The picture of the boat/trailer in the linked article suggests that the trailer eventually stopped because it ran off the road into soft dirt and the nose of the trailer dug in. I see no skid marks on the pavement behind the trailer and no indication that the trailer's wheels dug in to the soft dirt as would be expected if the brakes locked up.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by PodGeek

Again, I'm going off the report that the trailer lacked "required brakes":

https://mynews4.com/news/local/suspe...son-city-crash

The picture of the boat/trailer in the linked article suggests that the trailer eventually stopped because it ran off the road into soft dirt and the nose of the trailer dug in. I see no skid marks on the pavement behind the trailer and no indication that the trailer's wheels dug in to the soft dirt as would be expected if the brakes locked up.

Not sure how Fords are built, but GM products have two sets of brakes at each rear wheel: the operational disc brakes and a small set of drum brakes actuated by the parking brake pedal. Fords might have this arrangement or a single drum brake on the driveshaft.

In either case, let's surmise that after the disc brakes faded, the driver had a flash of inspiration and jammed on the parking brake pedal, and that locked the rear wheels.

[jeff64]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Not sure how Fords are built, but GM products have two sets of brakes at each rear wheel: the operational disc brakes and a small set of drum brakes actuated by the parking brake pedal. Fords might have this arrangement or a single drum brake on the driveshaft.



In either case, let's surmise that after the disc brakes faded, the driver had a flash of inspiration and jammed on the parking brake pedal, and that locked the rear wheels.

Newer GM HD trucks no longer have a mechanical/cable operated parking brake pedal. Button engages it, electrically I assume and it comes off when you put transmission in drive. The concept seems Better than previous configuration which were prone to cable sticking and overheating rotor because of non release or partial release. Never had to fumble around for button in panic stop instance

[upflying]

Originally Posted by mtnlvr

The boat owner/ marina/ transporter also used very poor judgment choosing to take Hwy 50 thru the Mtns from Lake Tahoe. They SHOULD have chosen the easiest flattest route from north Lake Tahoe/Truckee towards Reno.

I would agree, taking 89 from North Lake Tahoe to Truckee and head to Reno via I80 would make sense. But the Rivarama 44 has a beam of 12' and the legal width without a DOT transportation permit from California and Nevada is 102".
Once leaving highway 50, highway 28 becomes two lanes with curves. Would such a boat and trailer be allowed on narrow highways, assuming the trucker obtained the necessary oversize and wide load permits?
Did he even bother to obtain oversize load permits?

[upflying]

Originally Posted by Adrian Gordon

What's your legal theory aganst an owner who presumably hired somone whom he reasonably believed to be competent to load and move the boat for him?


Same question as to the broker? What's your theory of liability there?


Do you really think that the boat owner is insured for bodily injury liability when the boat is loaded on a trailer and being towed by a third party? If you arranged to have your car moved across the state, do you think your automobile insurance would respond to a bodily injury claim when the flatbed that was hauling it was involved in an accident? What about a crate of household goods on a moving van? Will the homeowner's liability insurance respond to that claim?


As to the insurance on the truck, given two dead and dozens injured, how "adequate" do you imagine that's going to be?


I'm betting that the insurers that are going to end up paying the overwhelming part of this loss are the victims insurers under their no fault coverage.

I would agree but in the land of civil litigation and personal injury, I would assume the attorneys will load up the lawsuits on any entity that has a remote connection with the movement of the boat. You can sue anyone but collecting is another matter.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by jeff64

Newer GM HD trucks no longer have a mechanical/cable operated parking brake pedal. Button engages it, electrically I assume and it comes off when you put transmission in drive. The concept seems Better than previous configuration which were prone to cable sticking and overheating rotor because of non release or partial release. Never had to fumble around for button in panic stop instance

Umm...the button might be disabled if the vehicle were in any gear but park.

As a long-time resident of northern Illinois and southern Minnesota I am well aware of the problems of sticking parking brakes and frozen parking brakes due to water intrusion in the jacket at the backing plate. It's been more than fifty years but I remember more than one experience laying on my back in the snow under the car with a Bernz-O-Matic torch. To this day I prefer to leave vehicles in first gear, reverse, or Park to setting the brake.

But I do have to say that the technology for keeping water out of those cables does seem to have improved substantially since my youth.

[AlaskaErik]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Not sure how Fords are built, but GM products have two sets of brakes at each rear wheel: the operational disc brakes and a small set of drum brakes actuated by the parking brake pedal. Fords might have this arrangement or a single drum brake on the driveshaft.

In either case, let's surmise that after the disc brakes faded, the driver had a flash of inspiration and jammed on the parking brake pedal, and that locked the rear wheels.

The parking brake can hold a stationary vehicle in place, but in no way can it stop a runaway vehicle moving at a high rate of speed. It wouldn't even slow it down.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Not sure how Fords are built, but GM products have two sets of brakes at each rear wheel: the operational disc brakes and a small set of drum brakes actuated by the parking brake pedal. Fords might have this arrangement or a single drum brake on the driveshaft.

In either case, let's surmise that after the disc brakes faded, the driver had a flash of inspiration and jammed on the parking brake pedal, and that locked the rear wheels.

That LITTLE drum brake set inside the disc brake rotor has been around pretty much since disc brakes made it into US cars and trucks in the 60's and 70's.

If you think there's enough braking capacity in them to lock up the wheels on loaded pickup traveling down the road at speed someone's having a dream.

They often don't have enough braking effort to keep an unloaded pickup from moving down an incline when parking brake is set and transmission is NOT in park.

It's very common for vehicles equipped with these brakes to be driven off while parking brake is still set.

[upflying]

Physics trivia, what is the kinetic energy of 38,000lbs of mass (truck, boat and trailer) at an assumed velocity of 70 mph?
About 622,000 foot pounds.
Pretty much why the collision scene looked like a bomb went off and why the free rolling trailer continued for long distance before coming to rest.

[Tabasco_Joe]

Originally Posted by upflying

Physics trivia, what is the kinetic energy of 38,000lbs of mass (truck, boat and trailer) at an assumed velocity of 70 mph?
About 622,000 foot pounds.
Pretty much why the collision scene looked like a bomb went off and why the free rolling trailer continued for long distance before coming to rest.

The answer is 2. As in 2 much for the brakes.

[KnP]

I think, if this guy knew what he was doing this would not happen. We all know, when we tow some that is very heavy, we have the tendency to baby the brakes, go easy, if you have to drop 20 mph for the sake of safety we do. Also, keeping an eye on brake fade and usage, let them cool off as need it.

Gives me the impresion thay Murphy here had no clue on what was doing. Perhaps one of those "hey you" drive this truck and pull that for a couple of cases of beer.

[Big Nate ATX]

I see his posts on Facebook all the time and he has a camper in the bed of the truck and has a bumper pull trailer. I have lots of experience pulling big boats 53 Nortek and 47 fountain and you get 300 gallons of fuel sloshing around things get out of hand quickly.

[Big Nate ATX]

Electric over Hydraulic

[Gsykora]

Originally Posted by upflying

Posts from Lake Tahoe readers of the news identified the boat as a Rivarama 44.
But since this is the internet, do not believe it until you see it.

If it was a Rivarama 44, it would be a 27,000lb boat. Add in the 10K lb trailer and that would be 38k lbs as reported by law enforcement.

[Danhikeski]

Originally Posted by D W

Towing was not the problem in this situation. As often pointed out in this Forum, sure, you can tow it, but can you stop it? In this case he couldn't, and we see the results. Two people dead and nine others injured. Lots of folks make fun of the "weight police". Nothing funny about any of this.

This is the same question, pulling verses stopping, don’t be as stupid as the driving in the article. Sorry to be blunt, but sometimes you have to be

[jacquesmm]

Brakes at fault yes but those weights don't make sense. A Cigarette 44 should be around 12,000 lbs. I was an engineer for Cigarette.

[jimmarako]

Originally Posted by Gsykora

If it was a Rivarama 44, it would be a 27,000lb boat. Add in the 10K lb trailer and that would be 38k lbs as reported by law enforcement.

So I don't do boats, or towing but how can a trailer that size be bumper pull? Looking at the Curt website the largest Class V commercial hitch is is rated for 20K pounds and a tongue of 2700lbs. This boat trailer would be well past both. Can you get a pintel or other type hitch for a 1 ton pickup?

[jimmarako]

Originally Posted by D W

Towing was not the problem in this situation. As often pointed out in this Forum, sure, you can tow it, but can you stop it? In this case he couldn't, and we see the results. Two people dead and nine others injured. Lots of folks make fun of the "weight police". Nothing funny about any of this.

I don't want to make lite of this tragic situation, but I've never understood this "you can tow it, but can you stop it" logic. Of course you can not stop it, thats why the trailers have their own brakes. If they fail, or you melt them on a long down hill then bad things are going to happen no matter what.

How many of you out there are legally towing big 15-18K rigs with your 1 tons? How quickly do you think you would be stopping if the trailer brakes just quit? And as was pointed out these 1 tons can legally tow well over 30K pounds. Thats not being stopped any time soon by the truck alone.

The Ford Mustang towing 2 jet skis is a safer setup than those of us with big rigs. Very strange when you think about it.

[Irene D]

Originally Posted by BigH

But...but...but...How can he be in trouble for being over weight?

And of course it was safe, because the driver has been towing for (fill in the blank) years and never had a problem.

Until this.

[razzle408]

Oh my Goodness! So sad for all the families involved. I know everyone gets sick of hearing me say this but yes your rig may very well be able to pull a RV/BOAT/TRAILER ect. BUT, CAN IT STOP IT??