Collaboration with the Manufacturer

[Sunseeker16]

I'm sure this has been discussed but I new to the forum. Is there any working groups that include owners and manufactures that discuss product issues and improvements? I think there is a great opportunity for some smart people to put their heads together and improve the products we all use and love. Any thoughts?

[quicky06]

Originally Posted by Sunseeker16

I'm sure this has been discussed but I new to the forum. Is there any working groups that include owners and manufactures that discuss product issues and improvements? I think there is a great opportunity for some smart people to put their heads together and improve the products we all use and love. Any thoughts?

Your assuming the manufactures care.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Sunseeker16

I'm sure this has been discussed but I new to the forum. Is there any working groups that include owners and manufactures that discuss product issues and improvements? I think there is a great opportunity for some smart people to put their heads together and improve the products we all use and love. Any thoughts?

Not that I've ever heard of.

[Sunseeker16]

Originally Posted by quicky06

Your assuming the manufactures care.

They sure don't seem to but a guy can sure hope they would. Sure not holding my breath though.

[Scrapper]

Brian Clemens, the general manager of the Dynamax line is the only one I know of that visits this forum, listens to owners and answers their questions.

[Sunseeker16]

I saw that and I'm appreciative. He expressed interest in my issue and I owe him some pictures so maybe he can give me some ideas.

[Madmike]

Yep I agree I spent 50,000.00 on a park model and it is very poor workmanship. Toilets gone caput 2 times . And drawers falling out. Leaking water over the patio door between awning and trailer side. Squeaky awning this is a new 2020. Dealer is hard to deal with. So I have a list a mile long. Hope the owner is enjoying there mansion on my dime. Bring back good old Canadian and american manufactured products. Instead of the off shore junk. They install in the trailers. I would pay extra for better quality. That's my rant sorry.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

Brian Clemens, the general manager of the Dynamax line is the only one I know of that visits this forum, listens to owners and answers their questions.

Forest River is starting an initiative where they are having their people officially help out in these forums. I've seen probably a half-dozen people responding as FR employees. I also know the GM of the Georgetown division participates here.

Brian now lists his position as "Motorized GM" and I believe he is spearheading their online efforts here.

So good news is happening.

Ray

[Sunseeker16]

Good news. Hope they take some things back to the production line too.

[NXR]

Good news. Hope they take some things back to the production line too.

I know that effort is definitely happening on the Georgetown line. Mine was at the factory for some work last month that the dealer could not handle. One of the issues that I thought was minor turned out to be major, the little plastic evap cup on the Norcold 1210 refrigerator rear side was slightly melted. I just wanted the cup replaced but the factory people said they had never seen that happen before. They contacted Norcold and Norcold said that plastic cup is rated for 500 degrees and it should never get that hot. Norcold and Forest River decided to replace the refrigerator.

Since they were replacing the fridge, I whipped up a PDF of all the things that were done improperly when the original fridge was installed in the slide. mostly corrected by the dealer. My contact looked over the PDF and decided they would re-do the entire installation and have a Norcold rep help them out to assure it was textbook-perfect. My contact also arranged for their production line installers to sit in with the Norcold rep so they would better understand the installation requirements.

The fridge has never cooled so well. 3 & 35 on a 97-degree day with the slide in full afternoon sun on a setting of 5. The freezer actually got down to -1 degree F overnight and I'd never seen it below +5 before, even at night. And no extra fans.

I also mentioned something that just bugged the heck out of me, that one shelf in the entire motorhome did not have a light at the top, a shelf in the kitchen area. I actually had stuck an LED light there but it looked really hokey. My contact looked it over and asked the production manager why that one shelf was the only one without a light. No one knew and they agreed it should have one. They installed the light on mine (without my asking them to or expecting them to) and said they were making a rolling production change so that all units with that floorplan going forward will now have that light.

Can't get much better than that to me.

Ray

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by Sunseeker16

I'm sure this has been discussed but I new to the forum. Is there any working groups that include owners and manufactures that discuss product issues and improvements? I think there is a great opportunity for some smart people to put their heads together and improve the products we all use and love. Any thoughts?

Indirectly, some dealers may have some influence. When I bought my A-frame from Roberts Sales in Denver, they spoke about changes and special orders Roberts has arranged with Flagstaff. Roberts only sells Flagstaff A-frames and PUPS, and rents PUPs, so they are probably one of the larger Flagstaff dealers for those models.

For example, Roberts has Flagstaff remove the electric tongue jack and install a quality manual jack on the units they order. Another example: Roberts got the matching duct and grill for me to modify the CoolCat to direct air forward instead of just into the rear aisle of the twin bed A-frame (I got the idea from this forum). In return, I provided photos of the install back to Roberts - it's now a customization they will do for customers that ask. And Roberts notified Flagstaff that it's a cheap but good idea going forward. 3rd example: Roberts has Flagstaff build a custom PUP to their specs for use as a standard rental unit. 4th example that I explained to a Flagstaff rep is the combo thumb latch/key locks that some of us have installed on the outside compartment doors. Not having to reach for a key to open a door except for those rare instances where you actually want to lock the compartment door is one of the most DW-pleasing mods I have made, and would cost less than $50 per unit to implement.

I think the real issue - and car makers have this problem, too - is that the decision makers at the factory never use the products they design/make in the real world. In my world of work (defense/govt contracting), it has been a huge push over the past 3 decades to talk to the end users to find out their real needs and frustrations. Often, the end users' voices is never heard by the contracting officer who decides what they are actually going to get. Of course, put 5 end users together and the chances of them agreeing on more than 2 changes are exactly zero. Same is true in these forums - all the A-frame users can agree that the electric lift system is a piece of crap that desperately needs more design effort. OTOH, there are really mixed opinions about the value of the bubble windows.

just my thoughts
Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame