Concessionaire Managed Campground Problems

[SmackIt]

I've noticed a disturbing issue with a particular concessionaire managed forest service campground. It appears the concessionaire is playing with their ability to hold and release campsites via the recreation.gov reservation site.

Recreation.gov doesn't have any control over which sites are released and when they become available. This is handled by the concessionaire's that manage the campgrounds. When I showed recreation.gov what was going on, they stated they have no control, and I needed to deal with the concessionaire. The concessionaire does not answer calls or emails.

This same situation happened last year. When I approached some of the campers that secured reservations, as well as the camp host, I got some pretty vague responses on how they managed to secure their reservations.

Who controls the concessionaires, and what recourse do we have when they brake the rules? These campgrounds belong to the public, they shouldn't be able to play favorites with these campsites.

[PoppySteve]

I would like to know if you make any headway on this. Have you made this post to other RV forums?

[flyflotrtim]

The first come first serve spots at campgrounds managed by concessionairs are definitely held for friends in the CGs I frequent. Even "day use" sites are occasionally used as camp spots in one CG.

[Canto]

Originally Posted by SmackIt

Who controls the concessionaires, and what recourse do we have when they brake the rules? These campgrounds belong to the public, they shouldn't be able to play favorites with these campsites.

That would be the Federal Government, US Forest Service/USDA. You can bet they have a contract which is probably 5000 pages at a minimum, which spells out exactly what the concessionaire can or can not do. Write your congressman, but you're more than likely wasting your time. Around here the US Army Corp of engineers has farmed off a few campgrounds to operators / concessionaires. At one we camped at for over 30 years, the only way you can camp there now is if you're booked for a white water rafting trip with the concessionaire who also operates the raft rental/guide service in a nearby state park. Good luck.

[YoBobH42]

My experience is that usually the Fed's won't get off their derrieres to correct it. Federal campsites, at least the reservable type, are supposed to be reservable 6 months in advance. I live in Virginia. A few years ago I was trying to reserve a campsite in Big Meadows Campground in Shenandoah NP for May of the next year. Trying to reserve in November (6 months out) all I saw were X's. They hadn't decided even WHEN they were going to open it the next year.

I called the park. They said they were holding off on that until they knew what their budget was. To which I exclaimed- but all of the other NP's that are open in May have opened their reservation windows, and I even provided screenshots showing it. How can they open their dates if they don't have their budgets? Why is it something which you say is preventing YOU from setting up release dates is not preventing other NP's from releasing their dates?

All too soon I realized I did NOT have any sort of a public servant on the phone nor anybody who had any idea how a BUSINESS should be run. And, I got nowhere fast other than getting a concession that the person would call me and advise me when the window would open BEFORE it did. What I got was an E-MAIL telling me it was open for reservations with no advance notice. Needless to say, you know the rest-the site we wanted was reserved.

Go on rec.gov right now and tell me what you see for Big Meadows in Shenandoah NP. X's is what you will see. These people are accountable to NO ONE, and they know it.

[The2002Wanderer]

This is very disturbing to hear. These campgrounds are public facilities (our land) and should be available for all under the same terms. It is time to contact your (elected) government officials; representatives, senators, president, etc. and bring this problem to their attention. It also would not hurt to get local media involved to bring attention to the actions of these concessionaires that are profiting from misuse of public property. I look forward to updates on how this is going.

[SmackIt]

Just to show you what I'm experiencing...


Each day, those little "R"s will occupy the next column on the right. It's impossible for every site to be fully booked for 14 days consecutively. What you would normally see is a "matrix" of availability, with different sites becoming available on different days. This will go on through the summer booking window, with none of these sites actually being reservable on rec.gov. Once they reach the booking modification/cancellation grace period, which I think is 2 months, there will be tons of holes that open up as people cancel unwanted days from the actual days they want to camp.

I'll also point out that the same concessionaire has 3 more campgrounds within a couple miles of this campground that do not have any of this monkey business going on. They all show up as normal on rec.gov.

[fishinfellow]

We had similar issues with bookings as we traveled around the country. We tried to book campsites online, very hit or miss. On 2 occasions while trying t it indicated the campgrounds were full, no spaces available. Both times we were close enough to drive to the park and found one had over 60 sites available and were able to stay. Very discouraging, they must be loosing a lot of business & revenue with this system. Anything that ends in .gov is questionable We're from the government and are here to help you. Ha Ha Ha !!!

[sfsgm]

Originally Posted by YoBobH42

My experience is that usually the Fed's won't get off their derrieres to correct it. Federal campsites, at least the reservable type, are supposed to be reservable 6 months in advance. I live in Virginia. A few years ago I was trying to reserve a campsite in Big Meadows Campground in Shenandoah NP for May of the next year. Trying to reserve in November (6 months out) all I saw were X's. They hadn't decided even WHEN they were going to open it the next year.

I called the park. They said they were holding off on that until they knew what their budget was. To which I exclaimed- but all of the other NP's that are open in May have opened their reservation windows, and I even provided screenshots showing it. How can they open their dates if they don't have their budgets? Why is it something which you say is preventing YOU from setting up release dates is not preventing other NP's from releasing their dates?

All too soon I realized I did NOT have any sort of a public servant on the phone nor anybody who had any idea how a BUSINESS should be run. And, I got nowhere fast other than getting a concession that the person would call me and advise me when the window would open BEFORE it did. What I got was an E-MAIL telling me it was open for reservations with no advance notice. Needless to say, you know the rest-the site we wanted was reserved.

Go on rec.gov right now and tell me what you see for Big Meadows in Shenandoah NP. X's is what you will see. These people are accountable to NO ONE, and they know it.

Find the chairman of the oversight committee for the House US Forest Service and file your issue with them.

[SmackIt]

Originally Posted by fishinfellow

Anything that ends in .gov is questionable We're from the government and are here to help you. Ha Ha Ha !!!

Most of the problems with the reservation system used for our public lands can be traced to privatization. Recreation.gov is run by a private company under contract. The organization causing the booking problems for me is a private company.

I know we don't want this to turn into another political thread, so I'll refrain from saying more. This thread is an attempt to find accountability for a private company abusing our public lands and violating the public trust.

[PoppySteve]

This article looks a little dated but...

https://westernslopenofee.org/fee-wa...onaire-issues/

[Mr Brian]

Originally Posted by Canto

That would be the Federal Government, US Forest Service/USDA. You can bet they have a contract...

And yes, you can calmly and dispassionately get a copy of that contract (which should be your very first move) via a routine Public Records Act request.

If from a Federal Agency, it will be pursuant of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). All you will need to know about making a FOIA request can be found here:

https://www.foia.gov

[Comanchecreek]

I had a favorite campground in Colorado that was taken over by Concessionaires. After a few trips I began to call them "Camp Nazis". I no longer go there.

[Grumpy7159]

If you don't like the reservation system, you should be a camp host. It isn't any better for them. The reservation system now allows reservations 24 hours in advance in stead of 5 days. A camper arriving at a camp ground with no reservation can only stay in a site one night. The said camper must be lucky enough to find a first come site to stay longer. Campers with two days reserved often do not cancel their reservation if they cannot use it because it costs $10 to cancel. That is inconsiderate, but you cannot blame them.

All the camp grounds I have reserved have a rule that the reservation must have a camper and equipment on the site the first 24 hours of the reservation. Some people show up three days latter expecting their site to be held for them. It does not work that way. The host may fill that site after 24 hours (usually after check out time the second day) with someone else. The host may move you to a site you did not reserve also. That works for the camper and the host. The camper may extend their stay by giving up their reservation and taking a first come site for up to 14 days (or time allowed by the government)

Before concessionaires the campgrounds were all first come sites and the Forest Service did not take very good care of them. There was no reservation system.

Try dispersed camping if you don't like the campgrounds or the reservation system. That is a hot mess IMO.

[Grumpy7159]

Originally Posted by SmackIt

Just to show you what I'm experiencing...


Each day, those little "R"s will occupy the next column on the right. It's impossible for every site to be fully booked for 14 days consecutively. What you would normally see is a "matrix" of availability, with different sites becoming available on different days. This will go on through the summer booking window, with none of these sites actually being reservable on rec.gov. Once they reach the booking modification/cancellation grace period, which I think is 2 months, there will be tons of holes that open up as people cancel unwanted days from the actual days they want to camp.

I'll also point out that the same concessionaire has 3 more campgrounds within a couple miles of this campground that do not have any of this monkey business going on. They all show up as normal on rec.gov.

Looks like a family reunion or the Rainbow group made a reservation.

[SmackIt]

Originally Posted by Grumpy7159

Looks like a family reunion or the Rainbow group made a reservation.

Wish that was the case, but the sights never became available via the reservation system. I suppose it's theoretically possible that 21 campsites were all booked at the exact same instant for the max duration of 14 days, but.... that would mean on Nov 27th they should all come up again, yet they won't, they'll all be reserved for 14 day stays for the remainder of the season.

[Backcountryboondocker]

Have you tried “reserving” different time frames just to see what the system says?

And which campground are you wanting to reserve, and who is the concessionaire? Maybe others here have had an issue with the concessionaire too either at this particular campground or another if they operate other ones.

[mnoland30]

I retired from the Forest Service, and I'm sad to say that many government employees always take the easiest route. They do what is easiest for them, instead of what is right. It is so difficult to fire someone for not doing their job that when I did it, the Regional Office (two states) personnel people hadn't ever done one. It took 6 months.

That said, most FS employees work there because they believe in the mission of the FS. Many volunteer their time to get the job done. Call the Supervisor's office of the Forest the campground is on and ask to speak to the Contracting Officer. If that doesn't help, call the Regional Office and ask for the Contracting Officer.

In my experience calling your congressman doesn't help much. They'd send a form letter, and we would send back a letter, and that was the end of it.

[Homebrew]

So far I’ve only had issues with one campground. I found it odd that everything was booked minutes after opening up. I tried for weeks with the same results.
My wife seen my frustration and had to prove me wrong and she did.
I was using my phone to make the reservation and showed everything was booked even after refreshing and turning the phone off and on. My wife used the iPad and over 50 percent of the camp sites were available.
Not sure what the problem is but noticed this on other sites also. Try using another type of device.

[phillyg]

Somewhere up the chain of command you'll find a govt. contracting officer (wife used to be one) who awarded a competitive contract to the consessionare entity. There is also a contract officers representative (COR) who manages the contract on a daily basis to ensure the consessionare is performing to the contract requirements. I suspect the CO is located in DC. As a former COR, I wouldn't want numerous unresolved complaints on my watch.