Do I need an EMS if I haveINTELI-POWER 9200 Series

[erich02]

Hello,

I am a newbie. Please forgive me if this is a silly question. We just purchased a Wolf Pup 16fq. The previous owner had it upgraded with an INTELI-POWER 9200 Series. He also has a Tri-Metric TM 2030.

When reading about the INTELI-POWER 9200 Series. I read that it has LOW VOLTAGE PROTECTION

– The Progressive Dynamics 9200 Series Converters will operate at low AC line voltages without damage. This feature is especially important in RV campgrounds where AC line voltage can be as low as 90 volts. Low AC line voltages may damage competitive converters. Low Line Voltage Protection will automatically shut converter down if input voltage is insufficient. This also protects your 12-volt appliances from damaging low voltage irregularities. The converter will automatically return to normal operation when adequate line voltage is available.

So would I still need to invest in an EMS, like the Progressive Industries EMS-PT30X?

[formerFR]

I don't know that you 'need' any of those things - you're just camping, right?

We've traveled all over this country, for over 6 years, and 107,000 miles and have never had any of these 'things'... I think much of it is just a reason to 'buy' another device, or toy, or something to make you 'think' that somehow you are safer.

electricity is electricity - don't fret it. The vast, vast majority of camper owners don't have any of this 'stuff' - they just go camping and enjoy the simple life.

[Scrapper]

That converter may run fine on 90vac, but your air conditioner will only run for a short time before the compressor and fan motor are fried. When voltage goes down, amperage drawn by the motors goes up, when amperage goes up heat generated rises to the point the enamel insulating the motor windings break down.The break down of the enamel is accumulative, it does not repair itself when amperage, voltage and the heat associated goes back to normal.

[Reverse_snowbird]

Not a silly question.
Not an expert... but the devices listed seem to protect against 12v.
You've got many items (as listed above, ie. a/c) that run on 110v. Personally, I think you need to protect against low voltage when you're plugged into a campsite. The EMS will also protect against surge, open ground, reverse polarity, etc. when you're plugged into the campsite.
Required? No, but we've had a few times when the EMS detected reverse polarity and we changed sites.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by erich02

Hello,

I am a newbie. Please forgive me if this is a silly question. We just purchased a Wolf Pup 16fq. The previous owner had it upgraded with an INTELI-POWER 9200 Series. He also has a Tri-Metric TM 2030.

When reading about the INTELI-POWER 9200 Series. I read that it has LOW VOLTAGE PROTECTION

– The Progressive Dynamics 9200 Series Converters will operate at low AC line voltages without damage. This feature is especially important in RV campgrounds where AC line voltage can be as low as 90 volts. Low AC line voltages may damage competitive converters. Low Line Voltage Protection will automatically shut converter down if input voltage is insufficient. This also protects your 12-volt appliances from damaging low voltage irregularities. The converter will automatically return to normal operation when adequate line voltage is available.

So would I still need to invest in an EMS, like the Progressive Industries EMS-PT30X?

The INTELLI-POWER and Tri-Metric items you mentioned above are specifically for charging/monitoring the battery and the 12v DC side of the electrical system.

It sounds as though the previous owner maybe did a lot of boondocking/off grid camping to have installed those.

The device you are speaking of (an EMS) is for the 120v side of the electrical system and used to monitor AC voltage when plugged into shore power.

An EMS is like an insurance policy.
Some feel they are unnecessary while others wouldn't go without them.

There are thousands of R/Vs that never see an EMS and never have issues when plugged in and there are thousands of R/Vs where the owners purchased and installed EMS out of concern. Of the many forums I frequent, I bet I've seen just a couple dozen that have said their EMS 'saved them' so that' seems to be pretty low odds.... but... only YOU can decide.

I use a $5 polarity tester and a $10 voltage meter (plugged into an outlet I can easily see) and do my own monitoring. I'd rather shut the A/C off (or to fan only) at the 'stat than have the whole R/V suddenly go dead because the EMS seen a bit of low voltage.

[erich02]

Thank you all for the feedback, I really appreciate it!

We will just be camping at full hookup sites for now. We have made reservations for about 4 days a month through November at various sites.

The previous owner did mainly boondocking. We plan on doing a little of this once we get more familiar with everything.

[Hamerjk]

Originally Posted by formerFR

I don't know that you 'need' any of those things - you're just camping, right?

We've traveled all over this country, for over 6 years, and 107,000 miles and have never had any of these 'things'... I think much of it is just a reason to 'buy' another device, or toy, or something to make you 'think' that somehow you are safer.

electricity is electricity - don't fret it. The vast, vast majority of camper owners don't have any of this 'stuff' - they just go camping and enjoy the simple life.

Well I hope you never get a power surge c or low voltage reading where it will take out electronics . Which will cost you more money than the cost of using one. Glad you been lucky so far but it only takes once and you will lose.

[formerFR]

..that's where you unfortunately make a lot of incorrect 'electrical' assumption, from the negative side of things. 'low voltage' is not the 'issue' you think it is. It does not 'take out' electronics. It can add additional amperage needed, but it in itself does not somehow do 'damage' to appliances or electronics or anything. If they don't have power, or enough power, they just simply don't operate.

You are espousing more 'fake news' information that sometimes abounds here...

[camaraderie]

Low voltage results in hign amps which damage motors and other components.



"Just as higher voltages can help reduce motor operating temperatures, low voltage is a major cause of motor overheating and premature failure. A low voltage forces a motor to draw extra current to deliver the power expected of it thus overheating the motor windings.
https://ustpower.com/comparing-autom...tage-high-low/


NOT fake news

[eye95]

Low voltages can overheat motors. Is there a consequence to electronics due to low voltages?

[erich02]

Thank you all for the advice! I can see that there are differing opinions on the need for an ems. Either way I appreciate you all taking the time to offer your input.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by eye95

Low voltages can overheat motors. Is there a consequence to electronics due to low voltages?

Electronics? Generally no for consumer electronics. They have Switched-Mode Power Supplies (SMPS) either as an external brick or internally. Because of the international trade, they accommodate a WIDE range of voltage. For example, the "power brick" for this laptop accommodates 100-240 Vac.

I can't speak for the brands that are RV-specific, but most of them are 12Vdc, for which low voltage resilience would be a design requirement.

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by Hamerjk

Well I hope you never get a power surge c or low voltage reading where it will take out electronics . Which will cost you more money than the cost of using one. Glad you been lucky so far but it only takes once and you will lose.

Not to disagree personally we have never needed an EMS in 35 years of camping. Is it good insurance? I guess only if you Need it. We do not have one.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

Not to disagree personally we have never needed an EMS in 35 years of camping. Is it good insurance? I guess only if you Need it. We do not have one.

That’s what I keep telling my wife but she always makes me renew my life insurance policy each year.

Ray

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by formerFR

I don't know that you 'need' any of those things - you're just camping, right?

We've traveled all over this country, for over 6 years, and 107,000 miles and have never had any of these 'things'... I think much of it is just a reason to 'buy' another device, or toy, or something to make you 'think' that somehow you are safer.

electricity is electricity - don't fret it. The vast, vast majority of camper owners don't have any of this 'stuff' - they just go camping and enjoy the simple life.

I agree!

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Electronics? Generally no for consumer electronics. They have Switched-Mode Power Supplies (SMPS) either as an external brick or internally. Because of the international trade, they accommodate a WIDE range of voltage. For example, the "power brick" for this laptop accommodates 100-240 Vac.

I can't speak for the brands that are RV-specific, but most of them are 12Vdc, for which low voltage resilience would be a design requirement.

At 90 volts consumer electronics will start failing. Sure they are more resilient but not that much more. You will start to hear them squeel over time as they start to fail.

As for the OP, kind of your call if you want one or not. If you camp where it gets hot and when its busy and everyone runs their AC or you are at an older park I use one. Of you don't worry or run much in your camper you don't have to have one. Replacement of either your converter (yours is pricy) or AC would justify it.

[FordHauler]

Originally Posted by formerFR

I don't know that you 'need' any of those things - you're just camping, right?

We've traveled all over this country, for over 6 years, and 107,000 miles and have never had any of these 'things'... I think much of it is just a reason to 'buy' another device, or toy, or something to make you 'think' that somehow you are safer.

electricity is electricity - don't fret it. The vast, vast majority of camper owners don't have any of this 'stuff' - they just go camping and enjoy the simple life.

With due respect to your opinion, an open ground or neutral would be much more dangerous to the OP with a metal sided trailer than to you. You might never know of either with a composite sided RV, but the skin of a metal trailer could become energized causing a life threatening event. Just one of many reasons to own an EMS unit.
I am happy to know that you have never encountered an event of power failure, that you recognized. My unit has warned me of problems several times in the past and I consider it a necessary device, not another toy. Admittedly, I do own several unnecessary RV related toys.
An EMS unit is a one time expense that we each have to decide if we purchase.
Travel safe

[eye95]

What do you mean by “failing”? Do you meant that they will stop working forever? Or just until normal voltage is returned? That they will somehow be somewhat degraded permanently, but still have some function?

I am really trying to learn something here. I now know that motors in a low voltage situation will suck more amps, resulting in overheating, which can permanently damage or even destroy a motor. But I remain woefully uneducated as to the nature of the damage that low voltage would do to electronics.

Thanks.

[tomkatb]

In camping about 10 weeks in two years we have seen three power failures. Our EMS restored power.

In out of the way places the electrical systems can be sort of pieced together by questionabllly skilled persons.

Plugs and breakers used frequently do not last forever. Wear out! The DW can find the nicest mom and pop campgrounds while we travel.

We thought the life insurance option of an EMS made sense. $300 worth. Up to you.

Also protects Fido when you leave him in the trailer for hours. Without an EMS the power might need you to turn it back on.

[eye95]

Originally Posted by tomkatb

In camping about 10 weeks in two years we have seen three power failures. Our EMS restored power.

In out of the way places the electrical systems can be sort of pieced together by questionabllly skilled persons.

Plugs and breakers used frequently do not last forever. Wear out! The DW can find the nicest mom and pop campgrounds while we travel.

We thought the life insurance option of an EMS made since. $300 worth. Up to you.

Also protects Fido when you leave him in the trailer for hours. Without an EMS the power might need you to turn it back on.

A good point. An EMS might be far more important to folks who use what you called “out of the way” campgrounds. Those who use chain campgrounds might have less (certainly not nothing) to fear.

You pays your money, and you takes your chance.