Electric Cars and Campgrounds

[5picker]

Originally Posted by nomad297

You just don’t get it. Or you do and you just want to be argumentative.

Bruce

Nope, not being argumentative at all so I suppose that leaves me unable to comprehend how using power from a campground pedestal (which I paid for) is done so at the expense of others.

[Keystoner]

Houses used to be built with 100 amp feeds. 200 amp is the norm now. The power lines feeding the campground can only supply so much power. A new housing development or a new factory being built in an area potentially exceeds capacity so the supplier has to build up. Campgrounds have to do the same thing.

Campgrounds were designed/built to provide X number of sites with X amount of power. As the campground adds new sites, available capacity is reduced. Add more RVs with 3 to 5 air conditioners, plug in heaters, electric car recharging the capacity is reduced even more. The campground finds they have more breakers blowing more often as demand exeeds the designed capacity. (When did 50amp sites become typical)

Because a select but growing group of people have a larger electrical demand the campground has to front the money to upgrade their infrastructure and charge us for it. So, while I'm not in a tent but don't carry all the comforts of home, I'm paying to subsidize others grabbing out every possible watt possible until the breaker trips.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by Keystoner

(When did 50amp sites become typical)

Because a select but growing group of people have a larger electrical demand the campground has to front the money to upgrade their infrastructure and charge us for it. So, while I'm not in a tent but don't carry all the comforts of home, I'm paying to subsidize others grabbing out every possible watt possible until the breaker trips.

Actually, 50amp is typical for most modern RV parks we frequent. And the parks that don't keep up with modern demand will be left behind. Every business has to grow with the times. And the idea that you are a victim and having to subsidize others electrical use is a different way of looking at things. Kinda like a martyr. Last time I looked, we all pay the same for most RV park spots. If you aren't getting your money's worth, that's your problem.

[Keystoner]

I forgot the question mark - when did 50 amp become typical?

I suppose I should stop looking at the forest and just stare at a tree.

[lbrjet]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Nope, not being argumentative at all so I suppose that leaves me unable to comprehend how using power from a campground pedestal (which I paid for) is done so at the expense of others.

I agree with you 5picker. I have to wonder why Bruce is so concerned about the power usage of the next campsite over.

I have many times paid a few extra bucks a night for a 50 amp site (even though I'm 30) just to get a larger space. I guess I balance things out.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

Actually, 50amp is typical for most modern RV parks we frequent. And the parks that don't keep up with modern demand will be left behind. Every business has to grow with the times. And the idea that you are a victim and having to subsidize others electrical use is a different way of looking at things. Kinda like a martyr. Last time I looked, we all pay the same for most RV park spots. If you aren't getting your money's worth, that's your problem.

I can't speak for western US, but in the midwest and east, I've stayed in lots of CG's where you pay more for a 50 amp site than a 30 amp site. PLUS, as mentioned previously, there aren't always 50 amps sites in some campgrounds. And as long as they are located in a place where people want to go, they won't necessarily have to grow with the times (at least for the foreseeable future) as long as they're filling sites.

[spock123]

Electric vehicles is coming and campgrounds are going to start charging for the electric you use. It’s like WiFi that a lot of campgrounds that I visit have limits on the amount of data you can use without paying for more. It’s the same way on fuel tax, pretty soon we will all have a GPS system on your vehicle and you will pay by the mile. I enjoy camping, more and more campgrounds we visit don’t have 30amp or 50amp, it’s all the same rate. I won’t be here but in fifty years all the vehicles will be electric

[RacerRalph]

I was on a military base in the 80's when an Officer bought an electric car to drive around base. He plugged it into his on-base home each evening. Created quite a sXXXstorm across the base, someone getting their "personal transportation" at government expense. You would have thought he robed the PX. Eventually he sold the car.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by spock123

Electric vehicles is coming and campgrounds are going to start charging for the electric you use. It’s like WiFi that a lot of campgrounds that I visit have limits on the amount of data you can use without paying for more. It’s the same way on fuel tax, pretty soon we will all have a GPS system on your vehicle and you will pay by the mile. I enjoy camping, more and more campgrounds we visit don’t have 30amp or 50amp, it’s all the same rate. I won’t be here but in fifty years all the vehicles will be electric

I own a Chevy Volt with a 17Kwh battery (or thereabouts). Allowing for charging inefficiencies I can charge my battery with the included 120V charger in 12 hours @12 amp draw. 18-19 Kwh @ my local rate of $012/kwh amounts to a whopping $2.28 for a "tankful" of electricity. In warm weather that takes me just under 70 miles. (cold weather just over 50).

A couple of electric heaters running 24 hours consume over 70 Kwh (2 ea 1500 watt heaters) which would amount to just under $9.

Now if EVERYONE were to run their heaters or charge their cars, the existing electrical infrastructure in an RV park may start letting some smoke out of the transformers and everyone who deals with electricity knows that the main goal is to keep the smoke contained. Once it starts leaking out everything quits

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

I own a Chevy Volt with a 17Kwh battery (or thereabouts). Allowing for charging inefficiencies I can charge my battery with the included 120V charger in 12 hours @12 amp draw. 18-19 Kwh @ my local rate of $012/kwh amounts to a whopping $2.28 for a "tankful" of electricity. In warm weather that takes me just under 70 miles. (cold weather just over 50).

A couple of electric heaters running 24 hours consume over 70 Kwh (2 ea 1500 watt heaters) which would amount to just under $9.

Now if EVERYONE were to run their heaters or charge their cars, the existing electrical infrastructure in an RV park may start letting some smoke out of the transformers and everyone who deals with electricity knows that the main goal is to keep the smoke contained. Once it starts leaking out everything quits

And THAT is the elephant in the room with respect to widespread adoption of electric vehicles. Our electric infrastructure is NOt up to the task.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

And THAT is the elephant in the room with respect to widespread adoption of electric vehicles. Our electric infrastructure is NOt up to the task.

I don't think we'll have to worry too much about overloading the grid with electric cars. Not everyone will have a Level II charger like I do in my garage so charging current will be spread over the night time when electricity use is at it's lowest. The Volt charges at a max rate under 4KW and will charge it's battery from "flat" to full in 4 hours. (battery never goes completely dead, some is saved for low speed driving before the engine kicks on)

Right now the car manufacturers are only using electric cars to up their "cafe" rating so they can meet the government mandate for 50 plus mpg in the near future. One electric car with a "rating" of over 100 MPG can make up for a lot of luxury cars that get 10 mpg.

I bought my Volt because I don't need to worry about charging stations, etc. With my short trips being the most of my use, after a year and a half my "mileage" is over 100 mpg and I only need to buy gas 2-3 times per year. (9 gallon tank).

Leaves more money in my bank account to tow the trailer around with my truck.

BTW, a lot of people who do buy electric cars are also solar electricity buffs. They charge their cars with no electricity from the grid.

As with everything else, charging electric cars in RV parks will eventually trigger a change in nightly rates. Just like extra for 50 amp, cable TV, WiFi, and extra vehicle charges, the operators will figure out how to both cover their extra expenses and make money at the same time.

Someone mentioned metering of electricity at the sites. I spent 6 months in a Denver area RV/Mobile Home Park while my house was being built. I paid my monthly rent and was charged for any extra electricity use over $30 worth. Never exceeded that amount even though I used two electric heaters to help the furnace on the sub-zero nights.

[rockfordroo]

I've just retired from the power industry. Believe me, when everyone's charging on a 95 deg F hot August night, our current infrastructure will NOT keep up.

And no one wants to pay to improve it.

Furthermore, we will be shifting a huge chunk of our transportation fuel from gasoline to electricity. That will require a huge increase in our current generating capacity.

And no one wants to pay for that, either.

The average person doesn't have a clue. They thinks it's all going to happen with windmills and solar panels.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

And no one wants to pay to improve it.

Actually, my local power company (a PUD) IS paying to improve the local infrastructure. Adding multiple transmission lines into the area, more substations, and even a couple of giant, railroad car size, storage batteries to provide peaking power.

Based on current sales of EV's or plug in hybrids, I seriously doubt many of us will be around to see more than one or two of them plugged in while staying in an RV park.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Actually, my local power company (a PUD) IS paying to improve the local infrastructure. Adding multiple transmission lines into the area, more substations, and even a couple of giant, railroad car size, storage batteries to provide peaking power.

Based on current sales of EV's or plug in hybrids, I seriously doubt many of us will be around to see more than one or two of them plugged in while staying in an RV park.

You're fortunate. Took us over 10 years to get a new line to feed Chicago. Lots of wailing and knashing of teeth. NIMBY!

Wisconsin only had 3 lines feeding into the state, all from the south (Illinois). It took them over 10 yrs to get another one from Minnesota. More wailing and knashing of teeth.

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

You're fortunate. Took us over 10 years to get a new line to feed Chicago. Lots of wailing and knashing of teeth. NIMBY!

Wisconsin only had 3 lines feeding into the state, all from the south (Illinois). It took them over 10 yrs to get another one from Minnesota. More wailing and knashing of teeth.

I live in a small Town, we have 655 homes and businesses population 1175. We have 3 independent electrical sources ran in our Town, Dominion power just completed the last transmission line. But we are also home to HOMELAND SECURITY, data base systems, they can't ever be down

[Witch Doctor]

Oh yes, they also have fiber optic for there computers, but in Town we still have Verizon phone line only, its there to add on to for us residents, but there is no company willing to pay the cost to delv. It homes, what a shame. The government has deep deep pockets.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

You're fortunate. Took us over 10 years to get a new line to feed Chicago. Lots of wailing and knashing of teeth. NIMBY!

Wisconsin only had 3 lines feeding into the state, all from the south (Illinois). It took them over 10 yrs to get another one from Minnesota. More wailing and knashing of teeth.

Lucky yes. I live in a state that has 49 hydroelectric generation plants, 2 Natural gas generating plants, 3 Nuclear Plants, and 9 Wind Farms.

In a pinch we could probably hook int BC Hydro for a little extra juice.


Needless to say, we have power to sell and we ship a lot of it to California.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Witch Doctor

Oh yes, they also have fiber optic for there computers, but in Town we still have Verizon phone line only, its there to add on to for us residents, but there is no company willing to pay the cost to delv. It homes, what a shame. The government has deep deep pockets.

Fortunate again. I have fiber-optic right to my house. Our City Government made it a condition to granting a franchise to Verizon, that if they were going to pipe some areas in town for Fiber Optic Service (Fios), they had to do the entire city.

Net speeds are phenomenal, even after school hours and weekends when kids are playing Call of Duty with all their "net friends" across the country and sucking up bandwidth.

[Witch Doctor]

Yep, it is the best. If I were a businessman in Clarksville I would demand it. There a lot of internet business here, and it is the biggest complaint at Town Council meetings. But they refuse to join me and vote it down every time. You can see my Town live on the chambers site. At least they did that. CLARKSVILLE VA. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, come visit us.

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[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Witch Doctor

Yep, it is the best. If I were a businessman in Clarksville I would demand it. There a lot of internet business here, and it is the biggest complaint at Town Council meetings. But they refuse to join me and vote it down every time. You can see my Town live on the chambers site. At least they did that. CLARKSVILLE VA. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, come visit us.

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What's their complaint against high speed internet?

Around here the Cities, Towns, and Counties, are all cashing in on the internet providers by granting franchises to do business in their jurisdiction. My city makes about $5 per month off me for my service and they don't have to do a stinking thing but cash the check each month.

Like I said, what are they afraid of, business growth and more revenue to the city?