Electric Cars and Campgrounds

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by mjones12

My hybrid Camry went 130,000 miles with no need for brake work. Oil change every 10,000 miled. Unless I missed it, you didn't mention $ saved at the pump. Probably doesn't take long for a Volt to save enough for a new battery.

You didn't miss it, I forgot to mention it.

For me, it amounts to 20-22 gallons per week @ an average price of $3/gallon. I still use about a tank a month with my truck so I've gone from $250 per month to ~$80 for the truck. The Volt used less than $20 of gas in 2017.

As for all the "talk" about battery life and cost here's a quote from GM:

n [almost seven] years of Volt sales we have yet to replace a single battery pack under warranty for general capacity degradation, and many owners are still reporting they enjoy the same range capability they had when they purchased the car.

Yes, the "List Prices" for a full replacement range from $5500 to $15,000 for the all electric vehicles like the Bolt. What seems to get lost in the discussion is that complete engines for cars and trucks can cost the same if you buy the entire assembly from the factory. In reality, engines are repaired and even if a part took off through the side of the engine, only a fraction of the total engine gets replaced (short block, factory re-man, etc).

Same with the new batteries. Only the failed part gets replaced and after enough vehicles are sold you'll see "remanufactured" batteries on the market.

As for me trying to sell anyone on EV's, not a chance. They aren't for everyone. Unless you are a commuter that goes from your house in the 'burbs to your office 20-30 miles away 5 days a week, or you run a delivery service in a big city, not practical nor do I think they ever will be.

If you want a car that you can pack the family in along with the dog and hit the road for a camping trip, they weren't designed for that. Would be like trying to tow a 30' 5'er with a Ford Ranger.

I do know that it's really nice to do all my local driving and not have to burn a drop of gasoline and be able to "fill" the battery for half the cost of a single gallon after driving a 50-70 miles. Fact is I have purchased gas so infrequently it takes me a moment to remember which side the fill cap is on and how to release the door covering it.

[mjones12]

TitanMike: You are right, not for everyone. We went from hybrid Camry to Prius, and will probably stick with hybrids for now. Works great for us. Ours have not been the plug-in hybrids, and we probably won't go that route....yet.

I hear more and more manufacturers will be offering hybrid models in the next couple of years. And the technology is just amazing.

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by mjones12

My hybrid Camry went 130,000 miles with no need for brake work. Oil change every 10,000 miled. Unless I missed it, you didn't mention $ saved at the pump. Probably doesn't take long for a Volt to save enough for a new battery.

Your right, this is not foe everyone yet. If you buying and using the justification your saving the planet your right, if you buy one because your saving money, is wrong. Your just saving your gas money to pay for the battery repairs. Either way they cost to operate. I like the idea, but they need to get cheaper. It's great people are thinking green, now if they would just improve the technology it would be a wave, but BIG OIL will keep it down.

[Oaklevel]

It takes a lot of miles and maintenance savings to make up the initial up front cost $10K - $15K more than a gas vehicle to purchase a Chevy Volt as well possible saving for a replacement battery ...... but to each their own. crap now it sounds like I am starting the gas / diesel truck argument..........

Not for everyone agreed. Maybe when the price comes down or we do not put as many miles on cars................

[mjones12]

Originally Posted by Witch Doctor

Your right, this is not foe everyone yet. If you buying and using the justification your saving the planet your right, if you buy one because your saving money, is wrong. Your just saving your gas money to pay for the battery repairs. Either way they cost to operate. I like the idea, but they need to get cheaper. It's great people are thinking green, now if they would just improve the technology it would be a wave, but BIG OIL will keep it down.

I have had two hybrids - one for 130k miles and one at about 80k now. Never had a battery repair. I'm sure it happens but I have never heard much about it.

At around 50mpg, I really think I've saved a little money, though the initial purchase cost needs to be offset.

[ronheater70]

Isn't there a federal tax credit for electric vehicles? i thought there was anyway.

[mjones12]

Originally Posted by ronheater70

Isn't there a federal tax credit for electric vehicles? i thought there was anyway.

There is for hybrids. I think 7k. Probably for full electric, too. Additionally, my employer gave a one-time 3k bonus to any employee buying a hybrid vehicle.

Thanks for reminding me of that financial angle. I know others will have correct information on the tax break.

[ronheater70]

Originally Posted by mjones12

There is for hybrids. I think 7k. Probably for full electric, too. Additionally, my employer gave a one-time 3k bonus to any employee buying a hybrid vehicle.

Thanks for reminding me of that financial angle. I know others will have correct information on the tax break.

yea I was thinking there was, but couldn't recall.. At any rate that could negate a good portion of the upfront cost since

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by mjones12

There is for hybrids. I think 7k. Probably for full electric, too. Additionally, my employer gave a one-time 3k bonus to any employee buying a hybrid vehicle.

Thanks for reminding me of that financial angle. I know others will have correct information on the tax break.

When I bought the Volt the Fed tax credit was 7500 for any car that could run as an EV only for 50+ miles. The Volt qualified but the Ford offering did not. Only for the lesser tax credit. The State also waived the Sales Tax on the first $35,000 of purchase price. That was just under $3,000 alone that didn't show up on the invoice.

To clarify a point, the Chevy Volt is a Plug In Hybrid. It runs as an EV for the first 50-70 miles and the "Range Extender" (Marketing talk for Engine/Generator) kicks on (automatically with little feeling that it has). From that moment on the vehicle is then just a standard Hybrid, storing energy in the battery when coasting or braking, and using it for slow speeds or to assist the engine/generator when accelerating.

One feature that is very notable on a hot afternoon in heavy traffic. The car is a lot cooler. No engine ahead of your feet generating 250 degrees of uncomfortable heat. Also one of the quietest vehicles I've ever driven.

Save the Planet??? Not me. However I don't dump my garbage or used oil on the ground and only use my vehicles when I have a real need. I'm kind of like the school kids (are supposed to be) and if it's under a mile I might well walk rather than driving. Might even drag out my bicycle. My plan is to not have another heart attack for at least 10 or more years, maybe longer.

Main reason I bought my Volt------- I wanted to. The gas savings was just a bonus but a rather nice one at that.

Not for everyone-------

That also applies to just about everything else in life. Just because "person A" has a particular brand of "anything" or the fact that they have that item doesn't mean everyone else has to have one too, or buy only that brand.

I think we all know what I'm talking about so I won't give specifics. Would be too big a list.

[mjones12]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

When I bought the Volt the Fed tax credit was 7500 for any car that could run as an EV only for 50+ miles. The Volt qualified but the Ford offering did not. Only for the lesser tax credit. The State also waived the Sales Tax on the first $35,000 of purchase price. That was just under $3,000 alone that didn't show up on the invoice.

To clarify a point, the Chevy Volt is a Plug In Hybrid. It runs as an EV for the first 50-70 miles and the "Range Extender" (Marketing talk for Engine/Generator) kicks on (automatically with little feeling that it has). From that moment on the vehicle is then just a standard Hybrid, storing energy in the battery when coasting or braking, and using it for slow speeds or to assist the engine/generator when accelerating.

One feature that is very notable on a hot afternoon in heavy traffic. The car is a lot cooler. No engine ahead of your feet generating 250 degrees of uncomfortable heat. Also one of the quietest vehicles I've ever driven.

Save the Planet??? Not me. However I don't dump my garbage or used oil on the ground and only use my vehicles when I have a real need. I'm kind of like the school kids (are supposed to be) and if it's under a mile I might well walk rather than driving. Might even drag out my bicycle. My plan is to not have another heart attack for at least 10 or more years, maybe longer.

Main reason I bought my Volt------- I wanted to. The gas savings was just a bonus but a rather nice one at that.

Not for everyone-------

That also applies to just about everything else in life. Just because "person A" has a particular brand of "anything" or the fact that they have that item doesn't mean everyone else has to have one too, or buy only that brand.

I think we all know what I'm talking about so I won't give specifics. Would be too big a list.

Wise words.

[gectisme]

Not sure if $10-15k initial upfront cost is true in the case of a Honda Clarity. We recently took a look at a Clarity Plugin Hybrid. It seemed to be comparable to an Accord. The high end Clarity Plugin Touring model was about $3k higher than the high end Gas only Touring model of the Accord. The Clarity has a $7500 Tax credit so it actually costs less than the Accord and then the maintenance and fuel costs will be less than the Accord. We looked at the Volt but didn't like the seating in the back so didn't look into costs at all. I think the dealer told us the Federal Tax credit is based on the size of the battery and vehicle, (not the miles it can go on EV only). For us a Plugin Hybrid, (or an EV only), is a good choice for the DW who usually only drives about 20-40 miles a day, running errands, running the kids around and going to her work which is local. Plus she can plugin at work for free.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by gectisme

The Clarity has a $7500 Tax credit so it actually costs less than the Accord

FINE PRINT ALERT!!

The $7500 Tax Credit is a credit toward one's taxes. Unfortunately it is a "Non-Refundable" credit which means that if your tax bill is not at least $7500 after deductions, you will end up leaving the difference on the table.

One way around that is to essentially "Do your taxes" before the year end or do a real accurate estimate of what you might owe at year end. If you have money in tax deferred investments, this would be a great time to transfer some out. At least enough to insure that your tax bill will be at least $7500. This way you kill two birds with one stone. You get to use the full tax credit you earned with your purchase, and have money that is now "tax paid" so you don't have to pay tax later.

I bought my Volt the same year my Wife died and I had huge medical expenses I could deduct. I essentially had a tax bill of Zero so I used this opportunity to transfer some IRA money into my regular money market fund.. Enough that I used almost every dollar of the credit. The tax money I saved by withdrawing IRA money went toward the purchase of the Volt.

Like I said, just be sure to understand that the credit is non-refundable so some careful planning is necessary in order to get full benefit. More of an issue for individuals than Corporations that have massive tax liabilities to begin with.

[gectisme]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

FINE PRINT ALERT!!

The $7500 Tax Credit is a credit toward one's taxes. Unfortunately it is a "Non-Refundable" credit which means that if your tax bill is not at least $7500 after deductions, you will end up leaving the difference on the table.

Yes, good point. If we do go with the Clarity, in our situation we would get the full $7500 tax credit and also I forgot to mention the $1500 Clean Vehicle Rebate from California.

[spock123]

Electric cars and trucks are coming, it just takes time. New battery technology will bring on more electric vehicles. Solid state batteries are coming, also plugged in cars will be a thing of the past. Now days a phone doesn’t have to be plugged in, they can be on a pad or just close to the charging device. About the only people that can stop the future from coming is Amish

[Oaklevel]

One thing in this state you get charged $64 more annually to register an electric car, go figure .................. this is on top of the annual tag fee.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

One thing in this state you get charged $64 more annually to register an electric car, go figure .................. this is on top of the annual tag fee.

Wisconsin wants to do the same, state says you don't buy as much gas so they need to raise the money for road repair any way they can. It's pretty much the same they want to do with solar and wind power for your home, the taxes and fees you pay when paying for grid power has to be recovered so they want the power companies charge you more per kwh when you do need a little extra from the grid.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

One thing in this state you get charged $64 more annually to register an electric car, go figure .................. this is on top of the annual tag fee.

Only $64?? I just renewed the license on my Volt and the EV "fee" was $150. That was on top of all the other fees. Licensing in this state amounts to the 13th car payment every year. Fooled em though. I paid cash for the car. Save enough in interest to more than offset the fees😁

[gectisme]

We finally decided to go with a plug in hybrid and went with the Honda Clarity because it can seat 5 average size people fairly comfortably. Honda is offering a no down .9% financing right now too. Looking into extra registration fees for EV's in CA, it seems only "Zero Emissions" vehicles will get a fee. The Clarity still can use gas I am thinking/hoping it won't fall into the fee category since it is all for making up on the gas taxes for roads... The DW has been driving it since Wednesday and has not used any gas yet, hopefully it stays that way, I guess we might need to add a fuel stabilizer if it is still like that in a month. Also found out along with the $7500 Tax Credit and $1500 CA Rebate, our local PG&E offers a $500 rebate on EV's, weird but we'll take it. If our plans work out, we will have 2-3 years to figure out if we can use it as a TOAD when/if we get a Class C... It came with a 120v Level 1 charger which would be like running the A/C on a hot day. In our 30 amp WJ, we would be at full power usage and have to turn it off to run the A/C or hair dryer but on our next RV we will have 50 amp service so we won't even have to think about tripping breakers. After living for a 21 months on 30 amp service, any new RV's will be 50 amp.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by gectisme

We finally decided to go with a plug in hybrid and went with the Honda Clarity because it can seat 5 average size people fairly comfortably. Honda is offering a no down .9% financing right now too. Looking into extra registration fees for EV's in CA, it seems only "Zero Emissions" vehicles will get a fee. The Clarity still can use gas I am thinking/hoping it won't fall into the fee category since it is all for making up on the gas taxes for roads... The DW has been driving it since Wednesday and has not used any gas yet, hopefully it stays that way, I guess we might need to add a fuel stabilizer if it is still like that in a month. Also found out along with the $7500 Tax Credit and $1500 CA Rebate, our local PG&E offers a $500 rebate on EV's, weird but we'll take it. If our plans work out, we will have 2-3 years to figure out if we can use it as a TOAD when/if we get a Class C... It came with a 120v Level 1 charger which would be like running the A/C on a hot day. In our 30 amp WJ, we would be at full power usage and have to turn it off to run the A/C or hair dryer but on our next RV we will have 50 amp service so we won't even have to think about tripping breakers. After living for a 21 months on 30 amp service, any new RV's will be 50 amp.

Congrats on your purchase. Do yourself and purchase a Clipper Creek Level II charger for your home. A great unit for less $$ than most car makers promote but perform every bit as well. The Level II standard is universal to EV's and you will like the quick charges vs the slow charger that comes with the vehicle. I've been using the Clipper Creek unit for 18 mo. now and just leave it plugged in whenever the car is in the garage. All automatic and when the vehicle is charged the only power draw is for the led that says it has power to it.

Most EV's have cooling/heating systems for the battery to keep it at optimum temp. It's automatic and can't be turned off. Leaving car plugged in means that power used for this process will come from grid and you won't lose any range from battery.

Charger will need a 240v circuit. I was lucky. I just repurposed the electric dryer circuit as my dryer is gas. 😁

[TitanMike]

To add: the Clipper Creek charger can be used as a portable. Order with a regular 50 amp plug like you find in a campground. Make (or have made) a splitter so you can plug in both. The level Ii chargers provide twice the wattage at the same current level. You'll end up with about 16 amp on each leg at Max charge.

Also, you can usually program your EV to only charge during certain hours so just do so when A/C use is minimal.