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Old 10-01-2019, 09:43 AM   #21
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From the fine folks at Dontmovefirewood.org




Buy firewood near where you will burn it- a good rule of thumb is only using wood that was cut within 50 miles of where youíll have your fire. Regulations vary in each state, so visit our Firewood Map to learn more.


Does this guy know there is an imaginary line 50 miles from where you're camping?





And from the USDA Forest Service Northern District.


"Dispersal. We studied the dispersal potential of EAB using flight mills, which allowed us to measure the distance EAB adults flew. We found that mated females flew further than unmated females and males. The average distance flown by mated females was about 3 km, however, 20% flew >10 km and 1% flew >20 km. These findings demonstrate one of the reasons that eradication of EAB in North America has been unsuccessful. "
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Old 10-01-2019, 09:47 AM   #22
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I figure at any one time I'm sitting on 10s of thousands of dollars of wood.....at CG prices. Haha.

A small portion (on movable pallets)....
https://i.imgur.com/U6NANCy.jpg

Here they ask you to burn it all. We do. Easy enough.
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:59 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lyon View Post
A few years ago I did the math to put campground firewood cost into perspective and those small bags at $6/bag equated to $700 for a bush cord.

If the governments truly wanted to manage the problem, they would sell local wood at low prices to discourage campers from bring their own wood, but, oh no, they do the opposite.
exactly. make it so local prices are more competitive than hauling for days or weeks.
several locations (Canada included) are now under destructive species of beetles etc which travel in the firewood you carry either internationally or between provinces and states. if you have to cut every tree on your property when they are infested it makes a difference.

I remember transporting firewood into Maine from New Brunswick and being asked by US Customs if we had any firewood. got hauled in and had it confiscated. the toyhauler was loaded with earwigs which I did not see when loading it.
now I bring scraps of processed lumber like 2 by 4, 2 x 6 end cuts or the compressed sawdust blocks which burn for hours.

and yes I've heard the argument that the bugs and beetles don't know boundaries and travel naturally across them at will. but taking them 3 province or 5 states is not a border to border issue.
just like a sickness travelling via plane globally the more we can do to slow the spread the better.
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:01 PM   #24
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I'm glad I got a propane fire pit. 3 nights of long campfires on one 20 dollar propane tank, no sparks and embers or smoke, right outside my awning so I can sit under awning next to fire, and a twist of a knob when you're ready to turn in and no worries.
YUP propane fire pits are the future of campfires in campgrounds.
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:07 PM   #25
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Campground firewood can be a racket too

I'm in Virginia. I often camp in Virginia. I harvest my own firewood which is typically: Hickory, maple, locust, and various species of Oak.

However, most of the Virginia campgrounds (and State Parks) have a supposed prohibition on "imported" firewood. Well, I got news for you:

1) the culprit being used to justify the firewood ban is often the emerald ash borer and the wooly adelgid. I do not use ash wood to burn and the other critter only attacks Hemlock trees.

2) Guess what, both of the above critters are already at every place in Virginia I camp. Every one of them. Even a NPS ranger admitted this to me when we stayed for a week at Shenandoah NP. So ask yourself, if they are already there, why the firewood ban?

3) Why the ban- so that campers will buy from the camp hosts and associated camp stores. I can't prove it but I suspect they get a cut.

The real truth of it is that firewood bans are no different than speed limits. If they are not enforced, they will not be followed. how long do you think speed limits would matter if they weren't enforced?

And, BTW, the firewood bans are not laws- they are imposed by some bureaucrat somewhere who probably doesn't have a clue.

End of rant.
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:11 PM   #26
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my answer to firewood

Here is my answer to fire wood....Flame genie with combustion fan to control flame. Smokeless and 1/4 bag of pellets burns for i hr. Thats four fires for $5. I can get a 6 ft flame out of that thing.....LOL
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:16 PM   #27
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I did find this... but do not knon if that has been repealed.

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/plant_imports/federal_order/downloads/firewood_2008_10_17.pdf
FEDERAL IMPORT QUARANTINE ORDER Firewood from Canada October 17, 2008 The purpose of this Federal Order is to prevent the entry of certain pests of hardwood from Canada into the United States. This Federal Order is issued pursuant to the Plant Protection Act of June 20, 2000, as amended, Section 412(a), 7 U.S.C. 7712(a), which authorizes the Secretary of Agriculture to prohibit or restrict the importation or entry of any plant, plant part, or article if the Secretary determines that the prohibition or restriction is necessary to prevent the introduction or dissemination of a plant pest into or within the United States. There are certain pests of hardwood that are present in Canada such as Asian longhorned beetle, emerald ash borer (Agrilus planipennis), gypsy moth, and Japanese beetle. These pests are present in the United States, but they are either not widely distributed or have limited distribution therein. We currently have regulations in place to protect the United States from the introduction of these pests from Canada through movements of certain commodities. However, we are finding that the movement of firewood of all hardwood (non-coniferous) species can be a source of introduction and dissemination of these pests. The problem of the movement of such hardwood is increased when it is cut into firewood since it is difficult to identify the species of tree from which the firewood is derived. In addition, we have found that, although movements of commercial hardwood firewood can be certified, the same is not practical or possible for hardwood firewood that is noncommercial, e.g., personal use for camping. Lastly, firewood transiting through areas of Canada known to be regulated for pests can become infested if not properly safeguarded and segregated during movement. There have been instances where we were unable to definitively determine whether the firewood transited areas in Canada that were known regulated areas for the listed pests. For all of the reasons stated above, certain regulatory requirements are necessary to safeguard and ensure that firewood of all hardwood (non-coniferous) species imported from Canada does not introduce certain plant pests into the United States. Therefore, we are immediately requiring as of the date of this Federal Order that firewood of all hardwood (non-coniferous) species from Canada being imported into the United States must be heat treated in accordance with Title 7, Code of Federal Regulations, 319.40-7(c), which is a heat treatment requirement of 71.1ļ Centigrade (minimal core temperature) for 75 minutes. As verification that firewood of all hardwood (non-coniferous) species entering the United States has been properly treated in accordance with this Federal Order, we will require that each commercial shipment be accompanied by a treatment certificate and each noncommercial shipment be accompanied by a treatment certificate or an attached commercial treatment label. This Federal Order is effective on October 17, 2008, for commercial and noncommercial shipments of firewood of all hardwood (non-coniferous) species from Canada.
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by nomad297 View Post
I see it every time I go camping ó people bringing truckloads of firewood with them from all over the country. I am sure that most of these people know they shouldnít be doing this, but they just donít seem to care that they are endangering the forests/ecosystems everywhere they go.

There is no need for me to get into all of the different problems caused by transporting non-kiln-dried wood from place-to-place because everybody reading this should (and probably) already know.

Why do people do this?

Bruce
I agree and I do buy (usually overpriced) wood from the campground. However, I have noticed that frequently that firewood is from out-of-state. I wonder if it is inspected before shipping.

Another source would be lumber from construction projects, it may not look pretty but it should be safe.
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:25 PM   #29
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Here is my answer. No fuss, no muss, no bother. Hook it up, turn it on, turn it off, go to bed. They can be set up to run on portable bottles, or as I've done plug it into the trailer outlet. I bought a long hose so it can be away from the trailer. Also, at least in Colorado, you can use these during most fire bans. No sparks, no embers. Lid screws on tightly so no spilling of vermiculite. We use ours all the time.
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:34 PM   #30
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Ohio State Parks

We do a lot of camping in Ohio - all state parks . . .
It seems like most of the firewood we buy from the campground is either slab wood (mostly bark, little wood) and/or "green" to the point it doesn't burn. Only a few of them are selling kiln-dried or heat treated firewood (at $8 for a small bundle) and these are mostly for the lodges and cabins. Campground has their own supply of slab wood.



Like others, I would be willing to pay a higher price for firewood, but if you are going to charge a premium price for it, make sure it burns. Even some of the locals in the area are selling green wood, so it always a crap shoot.
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:40 PM   #31
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i like that better than my genie....especially since our new 2511s has a propance quick connect. Does it need a regulator or can I use existing connection?
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:49 PM   #32
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Comanchecreek

Quote:
Here is my answer.
What is the brand? Where did you get it?
thx

I have one similar to below picture. I have had it now for nearly 10 years. It uses a regulator, but I have it modified to take off the regulator via quick-disconnect and hook directly to 15 foot hose to trailer connector.
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:49 PM   #33
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How on earth does the original poster know where someone has come from or were there firewood has been or came from?
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:51 PM   #34
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Some of us cook via our campfire too

So these automated contraptions that burn fossil fuels like propane are not likely going to work.

I hate to point out the obvious but the practice of burning wood goes back to the cave man. These forests are going to be here long after we are all dead and gone, as they have been for millions of years.

I grow my own firewood (God actually does it) and I cut and burn my own too. Home heat and camping.

Let it be.
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Old 10-01-2019, 02:15 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by rsdata View Post
Comanchecreek



What is the brand? Where did you get it?
thx

I have one similar to below picture. I have had it now for nearly 10 years. It uses a regulator, but I have it modified to take off the regulator via quick-disconnect and hook directly to 15 foot hose to trailer connector.
Mine is called a "Fire Dancer". I bought it on Amazon. We use one like you show in our back yard, but with the Fire Dancer the lid screws down tight and you can carry it by the handle.
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Old 10-01-2019, 02:30 PM   #36
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Don't know if true or not but my tree trimmer told me the emerald ash borer only go for live trees. Once they kill off tree they find another one. So your dead tree firewood would most likely not have any. I've split ash and never once found any bugs. Well sometimes ants!
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Old 10-01-2019, 02:34 PM   #37
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You asked why. Some reasons why people might "import" firewood...in addition the the obvious:

1. Campground firewood is inferior. I've been to campgrounds that sell green wood that won't burn.
2. Cost: For those who burn wood at home, wood costs far less in cord quantities than in plastic baggie quantities.
3. The assumption that if I burn at home or buy from a convenience store, it's safe.

Are these good justifications for importing various diseases and pests? Of course not, but that's the thinking. And there is a substantial lack of education on the subject. I ran an environmental organization for many years, so I'm pretty aware, but here in Colorado, where pine beetles have decimated huge swaths of forest, beetle-kill is sold as firewood statewide and it's made into furniture because of the blue cast it gives the wood. Clearly, there is little or no control at levels that really matter, because firewood harvest and sales operations are collecting and marketing the stuff right out in the open. One would ask, why wouldn't that wood be safe to burn pretty much anywhere?

Those are excuses, not justifications. But you asked "why."

As for me, I gave up on firewood long ago. I use a propane fire pit. In fact, I have two. One in my camper and one on my deck at home. This is superior in every way except smell and crackle. And you can use a propane fire pit during all but the most sever fire bans...which is why I bought it in the first place.

So I don't use or import firewood. But given the considerable lack of effort put into public education on this issue, and given the need to overcome some hard-headedness in some individuals, and given essentially zero enforcement, things are unlikely to change.

I suggest that the OP approach this as an education opportunity...not an opportunity to chastise those who don't comply. In my experience, non-compliance is the rule rather than the exception. As I watch more and more trees in CO succumb to pine beetle and other diseases, I surely wish more people would comply.
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Old 10-01-2019, 03:04 PM   #38
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The firewood I bring with me is from cords of wood I bought for my house, in Maryland. That wood, in fact, comes from Pennsylvania, which means it has already crossed a state line.

Like others stated above, the insects have wings and can cross state lines themselves. I would think, that if my wood is contaminated with bugs, they will die when I burn the wood.

In short, I don't believe that RV'ers transporting firewood is the the problem, and I certainly don't believe that if we all stopped transporting firewood, that would solve the problem.
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Old 10-01-2019, 03:09 PM   #39
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Firewood ó Why Do So Many Not Care?

So Iíve been following this with personal interest. I too buy my campfire wood located near or in the campground. Itís not always cheap or of great quality but thatís what I do because I want to be part of the solution not the problem.

Back in the late 1980ís ash was the predominant species of choice for many landscape projects. I was in charge of a small park system in SE Michigan and we were no different from most municipalities and used ash tress for park landscape projects to a fault. One such park only 13 acres in size with three softball fields, tennis courts and a soccer field was planted entirely in ash trees, over eighty of them. These were chosen by our landscape architect for their ability to adapt to most soil conditions and fast growth. Fast forward to 2005 after spending hundreds of dollars a year on emerald ash borer pesticide treatments over three years with no good results we replaced every single ash tree in that park with five different varieties of trees. As professionals the landscape architect and I should have known better. We always used several varieties of bluegrass, fescue and ryegrass in our seed mixes so why didnít they think to do this when it came to planting trees. This was a tough lesson but it didnít stop there. All of our parks and neighborhoods suffered from the dreaded emerald ash borer. Every ash tree became infested with the borer and it looked like nothing would stop itís spread. Nothing would stop the spread in our township but the professionals thought a transportation ban might stop it from spreading throughout the state or possibly further. This spread faster and killed trees faster than the Dutch elm disease of the 60ís and 70ís.

Unfortunately many people knowingly ignored the transportation ban and carried infested wood to their campsite or summer cottage or sold it as firewood. It doesnít need to be ash wood that is infested although that is the borers preferred host as it can hitch a ride in the bark of just about any wood source. Donít believe me? Iíve seen contractors move it from banned areas to clean areas, friends and others sneak it into campgrounds and transport it from county to county with no regard as to its potential impact. The beetle spread faster and farther than it would have otherwise. I watched west bound I-96 over the next 10 years as ash trees along the highway began dying farther and farther away from the epicenter spreading west and north to the west side of Michigan and to the forests of northern lower Michigan. What people saw as an innocent infraction of the transportation ban will probably result in the total loss of ash trees across the United States, well except for the mountain ash. This has not only been an environmental catastrophe but an economic one as well.

I guess what Iím trying to say to those of you that think the government is conspiring or that the government should step in or that thereís a conspiracy to make money off of selling firewood should take a minute and do some research on this issue and other environmental issues facing the country. Those of you that feel you have the right to do what you want, when and where well .... The fact that many people just donít care or that theyíll be inconvenienced is what has gotten us into many of the problems our environment faces today.

We should really be asking our friends and neighbors and yes the government to help solve these and other environmental problems instead of pointing fingers.

Dave, climbing down from my soap box.

PS I think Iíll start a thread on propane fire pits.
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Old 10-01-2019, 03:11 PM   #40
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Follow the money. Most of the brouhahahaha is promoted by dontmovefirewood.org. They are an arm of "The Nature Conservancy", a non profit. The Nature Conservancy has 231 people shown on their website in some official capacity, and who knows how many more behind the scenes. Most if not all are expecting a paycheck or some type of compensation. The more issues they can promote, the more donations. A lot of those funds come from the US gubmint.



They have a "Global Board Member" who is a former chairman and CEO of Dow Chemical. Now that is an environmentally friendly company, the producers of Agent Orange and contributors to 96 Superfund sites. Maybe he feels guilty



Meanwhile multiple thousands of truckloads of freshly harvested timber move thousands of miles from woods to mill daily, while crossing state and county lines. The only reason it's ok is some Yahoo signed a document and has a self policed permit. The only people who inspected anything are the guys who dropped them, the guy who skidded it to the laydown, and the picker who loaded it. None of those guys were inspecting for bugs, only size and species.
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