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Old 04-03-2018, 12:30 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by dustman_stx View Post
Your point is that there are issues with all of them. And we can justify our positions by searching for specific examples. Can you explain what has changed on the DPF and SCR systems since 2011/12? I'm not aware that anything has changed on the Ford- maybe something has on the Ram and GM products. And you speak to me as though I have no experience with modern diesels. Did you actually read my earlier posts?
Lots has changed, the system programming and parts have been updated and improved to reduce failures and improve efficiency. If you think that the systems are unchanged since 2011/2012 then I can understand why you still think they're prone to problems.

I did read your previous posts, you had a 6.7L that had problems with the emissions system. I'm assuming your other 6.7 didn't since you only mentioned the one problem. So for YOU that is a 50% failure rate. If you honestly think that 50% of the modern diesels on the road will have problems then I can see why you're so against them.

You coming here and repeating yourself over and over and then admitting that you have no idea what's changed with the emissions systems tells me everything I need to know. I'm not here to change anyone's mind, but the constant FUD being spread gets real old real fast.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:34 PM   #62
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Someone mentioned having many other things that could spoil a camping trip on an older truck. I have seen many things that factories produced new that fail early on and could spoil a camping trip too. What spoils my trip is having to pay the state over $1000.00 annually, and $5000.00 plus in sales tax because I worked hard enough to buy a new truck, and lose maybe $2000.00 annually or more for depreciation, all of which get you nothing. That money could do a lot of repair work even if you hired it done. People who had an entire DEF sytsem replaced probably were taken by the repair shop, so many mechanics today are just parts changers.
The premise of this argument is that new things fail. While this is true, it ignores the fact that mechanical and electronics components fail because they have a typical life expectancy. So the probability of a failure with a new vehicle is much lower than one that is older and higher mileage. There is a reason warranties have a year and mileage expiration. You are correct that one could buy many parts with the cost difference. But your odds of getting stuck on the road are much greater as a vehicle ages and increases in mileage. This leads to: Possible time missed from work, towing expenses, having repairs done by unknown shops as opposed to doing them yourself or by a known reputable local shop and so on. Here, we pay 6.25% sales tax at purchase and then a yearly renewal. Around $70 on anything under 10K GVWR. So you'd basically save 6.25% of the difference on the new versus used here. And used vehicles still depreciate, but it tends to be percentage based and does slow over time. But one big repair bill can easily wipe out any difference in those depreciation savings. If you factor in the additional interest you pay on used vehicles it even lessens those savings.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:51 PM   #63
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Lots has changed, the system programming and parts have been updated and improved to reduce failures and improve efficiency. If you think that the systems are unchanged since 2011/2012 then I can understand why you still think they're prone to problems.

I did read your previous posts, you had a 6.7L that had problems with the emissions system. I'm assuming your other 6.7 didn't since you only mentioned the one problem. So for YOU that is a 50% failure rate. If you honestly think that 50% of the modern diesels on the road will have problems then I can see why you're so against them.

You coming here and repeating yourself over and over and then admitting that you have no idea what's changed with the emissions systems tells me everything I need to know. I'm not here to change anyone's mind, but the constant FUD being spread gets real old real fast.
The failure was on a 2015. No failures on the 2011 but only had it for 8 months. It's funny that you think I think the failure rate is 50%. Obviously there are minor tweaks and changes made to components- I'm referring to the basic design and implementation of the emissions systems themselves. I also find it amusing that since I can't quote from memory when very specific parts were updated you think I have invalidated the premise of my argument- that there are expensive and sensitive components on a diesel that one needs to account for in TCO. I guess that if you don't ignore that you're "against them." I was aware of this fact while I was driving them- guess I was "against them" while I was driving them!
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Old 04-03-2018, 01:22 PM   #64
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Don’t get me wrong I like diesel trucks, pull better what I don’t like is the emissions. I saw where Mercedes was not shipping diesels to America this year. They said the emissions controls just made it not worthwhile anymore. The state where I live does not check emissions on diesel pickups, if I was the OP and the state I lived in didn’t check diesel emissions I would buy a diesel and take off the emissions. Diesel trucks if taken care of run forever. But lookin the end it’s your decision what you buy.
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Old 04-03-2018, 01:47 PM   #65
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The failure was on a 2015. No failures on the 2011 but only had it for 8 months. It's funny that you think I think the failure rate is 50%. Obviously there are minor tweaks and changes made to components- I'm referring to the basic design and implementation of the emissions systems themselves. I also find it amusing that since I can't quote from memory when very specific parts were updated you think I have invalidated the premise of my argument- that there are expensive and sensitive components on a diesel that one needs to account for in TCO. I guess that if you don't ignore that you're "against them." I was aware of this fact while I was driving them- guess I was "against them" while I was driving them!
Did I say you thought the failure rate was 50%? No.

I'm glad you're amused. I, too, am somewhat amused at all the FUD you're spreading. It always seems to come from the folks that are towing with gassers and had some experience that has forever tainted their view of diesels.

It's like the folks that swore fuel injection would be expensive and problematic to fix because it's so complicated compared to carbs. All those sensors, electronics, complexity...horribly unreliable...

In case you missed it, my point is that the vast majority of diesel owners are happy and trouble-free. I'm sure most EB owners are as well. But I'm not going to sit there and denigrate the EB because I prefer diesels and can cite a number of problems the EB has had.

Similarly, it seems a bit disingenuous for you to be constantly railing against modern diesels when you had one failure and the other truck you didn't have for very long.

You've said your piece, continuing to rail against diesels and your general attitude when discussing a different perspective says it all.

Enjoy your EB, I hope it ends up living up to your expectations. Time to move on to another subject.
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Old 04-03-2018, 01:50 PM   #66
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I would keep the OPs older truck, but thats just me.

My '01 7.3l has @95K on it. I might have to sell it though and buy a new $60K truck as it got a door ding on it the other day that is really bothering me. It will probably just fall apart now.
Yep, I'm keeping my 01 X. 250k and it's dented and a little faded but there's no truck on the market to replace it. $75k for a new f350 is vulgar and obscene. To the guy who started this thread. KEEP THE DODGE.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:51 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by DieselDrax View Post
Did I say you thought the failure rate was 50%? No.

I'm glad you're amused. I, too, am somewhat amused at all the FUD you're spreading. It always seems to come from the folks that are towing with gassers and had some experience that has forever tainted their view of diesels.

It's like the folks that swore fuel injection would be expensive and problematic to fix because it's so complicated compared to carbs. All those sensors, electronics, complexity...horribly unreliable...

In case you missed it, my point is that the vast majority of diesel owners are happy and trouble-free. I'm sure most EB owners are as well. But I'm not going to sit there and denigrate the EB because I prefer diesels and can cite a number of problems the EB has had.

Similarly, it seems a bit disingenuous for you to be constantly railing against modern diesels when you had one failure and the other truck you didn't have for very long.

You've said your piece, continuing to rail against diesels and your general attitude when discussing a different perspective says it all.

Enjoy your EB, I hope it ends up living up to your expectations. Time to move on to another subject.
"So for YOU that is a 50% failure rate. If you honestly think that 50% of the modern diesels on the road will have problems then I can see why you're so against them."

Not sure why you think I'm "railing against diesels?" Not sure how many times I have said I'm simply encouraging people to consider that there are some very high dollar, complex, sensitive systems on these newer diesels that were not on older ones. Are you saying that more complex systems added to a vehicle will NOT increase the number of parts failures over time? Or that none of the emissions control systems will ever fail? Or that since there are complex systems on all vehicles we should ignore that there are MORE of them on a diesel and they are expensive? Or do you just want to police the forums and make sure no one says anything negative about modern diesels? I am aware of the issues the Ecoboost has had. Timing chain issues on early ones. Intercooler condensation issues which seemed to have been mostly resolved since around 2015. Carbon build up from GDI; addressed in Gen 2 engines with dual injection systems (obviously with some added complexity and potential future costs there.) I guess the lesson here is that when someone has the word "DIESEL" as part of their username they are not going to be happy when someone honestly discusses the negative aspects of the modern diesel engine.
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Old 04-03-2018, 03:14 PM   #68
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For the OP and many others towing under 10,000# a gasser will be fine. I'd not put a lot of time in the mountains with one, but it can be done. For those of us pulling over 12,000# a diesel works best. I'd not torture a gasser pulling my 15,200# 5er. I'll not knock anyone towing with a gasser for whatever reason. Camping is not a cheap hobby. If you cannot afford a breakdown or the proper and safe truck you should not be camping. I'm a bit tired of all the so called justifications for NOT buying a diesel. Yes, the sticker was $70K, but who pays sticker. After warranty I can afford any repairs that MAY be required. If you don't need or cannot afford it, well understood. I'm tired of seeing those that would like a diesel justify in their own mind why not to have one when in reality they either do not need it or will not spend the extra few thousand.
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Old 04-03-2018, 03:35 PM   #69
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What I don’t understand about some of the replies here is the EB Ford can have failures like timing chain and it’s OK even though there is not a single excuse for a company that has used timing chains for 60 plus years. Then have trouble with condensation, carbon build up but it can be addressed on the next generation all is forgiven, one hiccup on a Diesel and they are all bad. If the EB is so good why not make bigger ones to compete with the Diesel engine? I would think all manufacturers would just make engines based on that and skip Diesels all together.
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Old 04-03-2018, 03:39 PM   #70
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This thread is being temporarily closed. It appears that the OP has received the answer they need. All members are encouraged to post their inputs however once posted move on.
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Old 04-03-2018, 04:44 PM   #71
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