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Old 11-16-2021, 10:09 AM   #121
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Not all of us are dripping with cash, yet still RV.


Amen brother. I have to budget hard to do what we doÖ.
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Old 11-16-2021, 11:51 AM   #122
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This is not the first time gasoline went to the moon. In 2008 it was 4.50 gallon in places. The mismanagement of the pandemic has put this country in a world of hurt and with petroleum companies consolidating there is price controlling and gouging in the midst.The U.S. fuel demand is high right now and we are still exporting it at great numbers ????Camping is a lifestyle and at this point in time may not be the cheapest form of travel ,(depending)
So, shutting down domestic production had nothing to do with current pricing? We went from being a net exporter to an importer in 9 months.. which just happens to correspond to increasing prices and a change in administration/policy.
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Old 11-16-2021, 02:25 PM   #123
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Sadly it's all because the system has to be simple. Unless you put a toll taker in the booth that can quickly decide, based on weight, number of axles, length, etc, what toll you should be charged toll systems will remain as they are.

Here in my State on bridges we pay by the number of axles and tolls are automated with few exceptions. (Tolled HOV lanes aka "Lexus Lanes" are just per vehicle and over 10,000# prohibited)

Until our highways go to a "pay by the mile" system we'll continue to get the shaft with rising gas taxes and tolls that don't always fit the vehicle being tolled.

FWIW, if you own a large TT like a 3 axle toy hauler or luxury Airstream you will pay the same toll as a Semi Truck-Trailer combination with 5 axles. Difference of course is "you" weigh 1/5th as much as the Semi. Depending on how you look at it, "you" are getting the shaft or the Semi is getting a bargain. Guess which vehicle is doing more damage to the highway and is paying less toward repairs and maintenance.
As noted, tolls need to be simple. But WA toll charges are NOT how big rigs pay for wear and tear on the highways. In addition to the same fuel taxes per gallon (which means a lot more tax per mile that the rest of us pay) maximum legal weight 18-wheelers pay $3,400 per year in weight fees when they renew their WA tabs.
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Old 11-16-2021, 04:18 PM   #124
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As noted, tolls need to be simple. But WA toll charges are NOT how big rigs pay for wear and tear on the highways. In addition to the same fuel taxes per gallon (which means a lot more tax per mile that the rest of us pay) maximum legal weight 18-wheelers pay $3,400 per year in weight fees when they renew their WA tabs.
So a vehicle weighing 20+ times that of an average car only pays 10◊ the average annual registration fee in WA.

They also drive more miles in a day than many cars are driven in a month.

Car owners just don't have as large and effective a lobbying force as the trucking industry.
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Old 11-16-2021, 06:43 PM   #125
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So a vehicle weighing 20+ times that of an average car only pays 10◊ the average annual registration fee in WA.

They also drive more miles in a day than many cars are driven in a month.

Car owners just don't have as large and effective a lobbying force as the trucking industry.
I usually agree with your posts Mike, but for the record I just this month renewed the tabs on my 8,000# 2020 F350 for $109.72. The big rig pays 31x what I did.
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Old 11-16-2021, 08:43 PM   #126
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I usually agree with your posts Mike, but for the record I just this month renewed the tabs on my 8,000# 2020 F350 for $109.72. The big rig pays 31x what I did.
I paid $20 for my F350 in Georgia.
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Old 11-16-2021, 09:10 PM   #127
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I paid $20 for my F350 in Georgia.


Me too.
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Old 11-17-2021, 10:02 AM   #128
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Add to your list of polluters-, Rocket Launches. Every rocket puts about the same amount of greenhouse gasses into the environment in a few minutes as thousands of cars, trucks, and buses do in a year.

Many today are to place satellites in orbit so people can be connected to their social media anywhere and without delay. Also for those who have obscene amounts of disposable income and want to just take a ride above earth's atmosp hff ere and gravity.
That really depends on the propellant used . hydrogen fueled rockets just expel water . though some pollutants in the making of it . solid rocket boosters are more polluting .
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Old 11-17-2021, 10:14 AM   #129
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That really depends on the propellant used . hydrogen fueled rockets just expel water . though some pollutants in the making of it . solid rocket boosters are more polluting .
Here's an article that goes somewhat in depth to explain the WHOLE effect of rocket launches and pollution. Also the pollution created by re-entry.


https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ed-by-rockets/


Note how even if you use the cleanest fuel possible, heat from combustion creates things like oxides of Nitrogen and Ozone.

Also of note, just in the last couple days those aboard the Space Station had to "shelter in place" due to some junk from a destroyed satellite starting to orbit closer and closer to the station. It's not just Earth that's being polluted by space travel but space itself.




Of course there is all the pollution created during the manufacturing process of the exotic fuels.
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Old 11-17-2021, 06:53 PM   #130
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Here's an article that goes somewhat in depth to explain the WHOLE effect of rocket launches and pollution. Also the pollution created by re-entry.


https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ed-by-rockets/


Note how even if you use the cleanest fuel possible, heat from combustion creates things like oxides of Nitrogen and Ozone.

Also of note, just in the last couple days those aboard the Space Station had to "shelter in place" due to some junk from a destroyed satellite starting to orbit closer and closer to the station. It's not just Earth that's being polluted by space travel but space itself.




Of course there is all the pollution created during the manufacturing process of the exotic fuels.
That was a good read and talked about solid rocket boosters not hydrogen powered WATER . it did leave a lot open to debate and uncertainty of what effects there are to the atmosphere . meteorite thousands upon thousands crash into the earth every year and burn up . We don't know what's all in these meteorites that get vaporized or the damage they cause .



So we should park our trucks and quit burning gas and diesel altogether ?


What we don't need is a space flights for the rich and famous . Leave it for study and exploration .

Also the Russian satellite debris was a major boondoggle by Russia .
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Old 11-17-2021, 10:03 PM   #131
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That was a good read and talked about solid rocket boosters not hydrogen powered WATER . it did leave a lot open to debate and uncertainty of what effects there are to the atmosphere . meteorite thousands upon thousands crash into the earth every year and burn up . We don't know what's all in these meteorites that get vaporized or the damage they cause .



So we should park our trucks and quit burning gas and diesel altogether ?


What we don't need is a space flights for the rich and famous . Leave it for study and exploration .

Also the Russian satellite debris was a major boondoggle by Russia .

There are some who think we should. Then those same individuals think nothing of all the other sources of pollution. How about those who have to have the latest phone introduced by a company with a "Fruit" for it's logo. Think about all the side stream pollutants put into the environment during the manufacture of the new phones and the disposal of the old.

As more and more people living in Cities decide they don't need cars and trucks they will push for more and more regulations on cars, trucks, and other uses of fossil fuels. After all, they don't need them, right? There's Uber and Lyft so why does anyone need a car?
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Old 11-17-2021, 10:18 PM   #132
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There are some who think we should. Then those same individuals think nothing of all the other sources of pollution. How about those who have to have the latest phone introduced by a company with a "Fruit" for it's logo. Think about all the side stream pollutants put into the environment during the manufacture of the new phones and the disposal of the old.

As more and more people living in Cities decide they don't need cars and trucks they will push for more and more regulations on cars, trucks, and other uses of fossil fuels. After all, they don't need them, right? There's Uber and Lyft so why does anyone need a car?
I think itís good if those city folks give up cars at least to the point that fuel demand drops and the price drops so us rural people can have more for less.
Meanwhile just keep getting those solar panels from China made with low grade coal.o_
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Old 11-17-2021, 11:03 PM   #133
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Close to home

We stayed ďlocalĒ this year. Camping 2-3 weekends a month. Most trips were about 100-150 miles each way. Weíre actually considering a few longer trips year to save on gas and tolls
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Old 11-19-2021, 06:49 AM   #134
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At 8.5 MPG I would think you knew gas was going to be among the most significant costs for RV travel?



You don't appear to have chosen your camper for the fuel efficiency. Gas prices are slightly higher than pre-covid levels. Did you ever think prices would go down?



Do you travel more at lower gas prices?


Your correct gas is the most expensive cost of traveling. Which is why itís the NUMBER ONE limiting factor on how far or how often o go during the summer.

Yes gas prices have traditionally gone up and down. Have they dropped to original prices of the 70ís or early 2000ís no but they will drop.

Yes I travel more the cheaper the fuel.
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Old 11-19-2021, 08:58 AM   #135
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For me up here, it’s more about the tolls. I just discovered that crossing the bridge from New Jersey to Pennsylvania over the Delaware river, which should be $3.50, cost me $13.50, even though I am towing a small single axle trailer under 4000 pounds. The $13.50 fee is the same cost as a two axle motorHome Pulling a trailer! So why do I fit in that category? Scum bags at the toll authority have declared that any vehicle over 8 feet in height be charged at that rate. That is virtually every travel trailer made except for teardrop trailer. And we just have to sit back and eat it.
We discovered that on the Ben Franklin bridge from Jersey to Philly that you need to remove your EZPass tag and pay cash. The automated system was charging us $30. The toll taker counts the axles and itís $12.50. F150 pulling a 30í
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Old 11-19-2021, 09:40 AM   #136
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I think itís good if those city folks give up cars at least to the point that fuel demand drops and the price drops so us rural people can have more for less.
Meanwhile just keep getting those solar panels from China made with low grade coal.o_
I have another Renogy panel arriving today. Ordering US made panels would make it cost prohibitive for me at 3x the price.
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Old 11-19-2021, 09:42 AM   #137
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Your correct gas is the most expensive cost of traveling. Which is why itís the NUMBER ONE limiting factor on how far or how often o go during the summer.

Yes gas prices have traditionally gone up and down. Have they dropped to original prices of the 70ís or early 2000ís no but they will drop.

Yes I travel more the cheaper the fuel.

For us it's TIME. Wife still works, only gets about a month of time off for year.
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Old 11-19-2021, 09:44 AM   #138
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We discovered that on the Ben Franklin bridge from Jersey to Philly that you need to remove your EZPass tag and pay cash. The automated system was charging us $30. The toll taker counts the axles and itís $12.50. F150 pulling a 30í
This is good to know. I will try that next time. Ugh, getting in line and paying cash with the peasants again! Repulsive. But better than getting ripped off.
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Old 11-19-2021, 10:03 AM   #139
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We discovered that on the Ben Franklin bridge from Jersey to Philly that you need to remove your EZPass tag and pay cash. The automated system was charging us $30. The toll taker counts the axles and itís $12.50. F150 pulling a 30í
We had the same issue years ago when we had a single axle tt pulled with an suv. We were charged $12 to cross at I-78 when the charge should have been $2. We called the bridge commission and they told us our NY EZ-Pass needed to request a refund. Called NY EZ-Pass and they said the bridge commission needed to initiate the refund. It took several months of back and forth before I got someone at the bridge commission to initiate the refund. Yeah, it was only $10, but was more about the principle of being over charged.

At the time, the bridge commission website recommended that people towing small trailers should remove their tag, place it in the special bag to avoid being used, use cash and get a receipt in case the tag was read. EZ, right?
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Old 11-19-2021, 10:29 AM   #140
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I've resorted to planning outings with friends. We all pile in my truck and split costs.
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