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Old 06-19-2021, 07:48 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by formerFR View Post
and, as for us 'electric' car owners, and FUTURE owners, the states are adding 'road use' tax fees to our registration renewals since we don't stop and 'fill up' at gas stations.... Georgia is and additional $200 just for that, Alabama has it's fee, too, as other states are also joining... We have a Nissan Leaf in both states. : /

On one hand, the Federal government 'gives' you a break for being a 'good' citizen, while on the other hand your own State penalizes you.

it may not, on the surface, sound like 'much' extra cost, but one reason to own an electric vehicle is to LOWER your costs of driving - which runs either of our Leafs about $20 monthly in electric cost. Now, with this 'fee' from the state, they are effectively DOUBLING our cost for 10 months out of the year! And, since this is a 'flat' fee, reducing your driving miles does nothing to lower it, and you must pay it in FULL at registration - there is no 'monthly' billing to pay it. Crazy.
Where are you getting these numbers? Georgia “road use” fee according to Georgia law 40-2-151.1 (in effect since 2017) is $50 for vehicles weighing 15,500 to 26,000 pounds. Vehicles over 26k pay $100. Any vehicle under 15.5k is exempt.

The income from those fees can only be used for transportation issues.
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Old 06-19-2021, 08:16 AM   #42
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Where are you getting these numbers? Georgia “road use” fee according to Georgia law 40-2-151.1 (in effect since 2017) is $50 for vehicles weighing 15,500 to 26,000 pounds. Vehicles over 26k pay $100. Any vehicle under 15.5k is exempt.

The income from those fees can only be used for transportation issues.
He's correct. Read about it here

https://www.ncsl.org/research/energy...rid%20vehicles.
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Old 06-19-2021, 08:26 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by formerFR View Post
and, as for us 'electric' car owners, and FUTURE owners, the states are adding 'road use' tax fees to our registration renewals since we don't stop and 'fill up' at gas stations.... Georgia is and additional $200 just for that, Alabama has it's fee, too, as other states are also joining... We have a Nissan Leaf in both states. : /

On one hand, the Federal government 'gives' you a break for being a 'good' citizen, while on the other hand your own State penalizes you.

it may not, on the surface, sound like 'much' extra cost, but one reason to own an electric vehicle is to LOWER your costs of driving - which runs either of our Leafs about $20 monthly in electric cost. Now, with this 'fee' from the state, they are effectively DOUBLING our cost for 10 months out of the year! And, since this is a 'flat' fee, reducing your driving miles does nothing to lower it, and you must pay it in FULL at registration - there is no 'monthly' billing to pay it. Crazy.
That’s because the roads you’re driving on are paid for by taxes added to fuel. You’ve been utilizing something being paid for by others. You’re simply footing a share of the bill now.
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Old 06-19-2021, 08:33 AM   #44
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Cheer up! Electric truck are coming. Duke Energy charges $.11/kilowatt hour whether it rains, shines, during a hurricane or flood. Utilities don't have the ability to jack the prices up for every quirk in the weather or holiday. My Model Y Tesla is just under 500 horsepower and according to the "guvment" gets the equivalent of 125 miles per gallon. I charge it at home.

Within the next few years the Ford F-150 Lightning will join the Tesla Cybertruck and folks with 5ers and tag-alongs will have some options. You can also charge your tow vehicle at the Campground 50AMP pedestal.

Tesla's new tabless battery cells, which Tesla is calling 4860 cells, will give the company’s EV batteries five times more energy capacity, make them six times more powerful, and enable a 16 percent range increase for Tesla’s vehicles. When the new batteries are pervasive, y'all can say goodbye to ICE (internal combustion engines) and gas station gougers.
As it sits now, there is absolutely no way the electric grid could handle even one tenth of the vehicles on the road being electric. And your low electricity prices you’re quoting are because we produce the bulk of our electricity using coal and natural gas. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to deduce that when you shift energy production to more expensive methods, significantly increase your demand, and require massive upgrades to infrastructure to support the additional usage you will no longer have a cheap alternative to the ICE.
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Old 06-19-2021, 08:42 AM   #45
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I honestly believe that gas prices are not really in hands of politicians, but are controlled by the market forces with a nudge upward by the oil industry. Prices always rise in the Summer because of increased travel by vacationers. Come late Fall, there could very well be price collapse.


It seems that the price for regular gas here in southern Maine averages around 2.85
As someone else alluded, it’s all about supply and demand. But you’re ignoring the very real impact an administration can have on both. Shutting down oil production on government land, shutting down pipeline projects and such, for example. Maybe someone with a “magic wand” will come around and straighten things out…
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Old 06-19-2021, 09:40 AM   #46
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As it sits now, there is absolutely no way the electric grid could handle even one tenth of the vehicles on the road being electric. And your low electricity prices you’re quoting are because we produce the bulk of our electricity using coal and natural gas. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to deduce that when you shift energy production to more expensive methods, significantly increase your demand, and require massive upgrades to infrastructure to support the additional usage you will no longer have a cheap alternative to the ICE.
So true. Realize that there haven't been any new transmission lines built in the U.S. in the last 40 years due to EPA restrictions and environmental legal challenges. This forum is full of threads citing rampant substandard electrical power in CG's. Southern California can't even keep the lights on as it is. Realistically speaking, powering this country with just wind, solar and hydro is a pipe dream.
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Old 06-19-2021, 09:55 AM   #47
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As it sits now, there is absolutely no way the electric grid could handle even one tenth of the vehicles on the road being electric. And your low electricity prices you’re quoting are because we produce the bulk of our electricity using coal and natural gas. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to deduce that when you shift energy production to more expensive methods, significantly increase your demand, and require massive upgrades to infrastructure to support the additional usage you will no longer have a cheap alternative to the ICE.
Current estimates show that if every vehicle operating in the US were electric, the current energy usage would increase by 25%. This is no small feat, but it's certainly doable, especially since it will happen slowly over years, not all at once. Even as supply increases and energy becomes cleaner, I can't imagine that the electricity costs to charge an EV will ever even come close to the cost of fuel for ICE vehicles. And even using the dirtiest coal power plants for electricity, there is far less air pollution produced from the electricity produced to charge EVs than each individual ICE vehicle.

I certainly don't look forward to being tied to charging an EV. I'd much rather fuel up my vehicles and hop back on the road... But that day is coming. We have a finite amount of oil on this Earth. We will eventually run out, or get to such a low capacity that it becomes cost-prohibitive to nearly everyone. Whether this will happen in our generation, next generation, or a few further in the future is anyone's guess, but the day is coming. We can't extract oil from a finite source infinitely. You can continue fighting it, but it won't change the inevitable.
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:24 AM   #48
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Current estimates show that if every vehicle operating in the US were electric, the current energy usage would increase by 25%. This is no small feat, but it's certainly doable, especially since it will happen slowly over years, not all at once. Even as supply increases and energy becomes cleaner, I can't imagine that the electricity costs to charge an EV will ever even come close to the cost of fuel for ICE vehicles. And even using the dirtiest coal power plants for electricity, there is far less air pollution produced from the electricity produced to charge EVs than each individual ICE vehicle.

I certainly don't look forward to being tied to charging an EV. I'd much rather fuel up my vehicles and hop back on the road... But that day is coming. We have a finite amount of oil on this Earth. We will eventually run out, or get to such a low capacity that it becomes cost-prohibitive to nearly everyone. Whether this will happen in our generation, next generation, or a few further in the future is anyone's guess, but the day is coming. We can't extract oil from a finite source infinitely. You can continue fighting it, but it won't change the inevitable.

I'm all for getting off oil, slowly. I don't want to be forced to pay 6 or 7 dollars or more for a gallon for gas and/ or doubling my electricity bill in some attempt to force the transition to happen quickly.

A couple other points-

There are costs in addition to just charging a vehicle. Also, how much are electricity rates increasing in the future due to some type of carbon tax? Taxes for roads paid through gas will have to replaced with taxes on electric vehicles.

There are environmental and dollar costs related to the mining of the minerals needed to build vehicle batteries. Maybe in the future there will be no need for some of those minerals, right now they are needed.

In the future, how are the millions of vehicle batteries going to be disposed of or even recycled safely? In any event this costs money. Any disposal fees down the road?

As we "go green" China will continue as the world's polluter burning 4 billion tons, or more, of coal annually. They are building coal fired plants as we speak. This also gives them a competitive advantage, how is that addressed?
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:26 AM   #49
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For the sake of "Playing by the rules", i will censor myself here....What I can say is here in VA we are paying Obama era gas prices, and we are only 6 months into this...By the way, I have cut so many corners I am already round. The newest vehicle i own is a 2003, and that counts the rv! It will not be easy to get thru this- the guy who said "it's amazing what a minority of people can do"- hit the nail on the head. But I will brace myself, because I know it will cost a lot of money to provide every necessity (and then some) to folks who are happy to take it....


Nuff said....I am signing off so I can count my many blessings.
I was born into a family and raised at a time when if something wasn't broken and did the job it was intended to do reliably, it wasn't replaced.

Today it seems like a lot of people have to have the latest and greatest.

I'm towing the new trailer that replaced my worn out 22 year old one with a 2004 pickup truck that still does the job. Bought the new trailer with money saved by not having a monthly payment on both old trailer and truck.

That also leaves me more $$ to pay for gasoline.

Since fuel costs are a major part of how our economy works the pressure on providing more and keeping prices down means any spike will be met with more production and like everything else, prices will level off. Overall, increases will follow the regular inflation rate.

I've been listening to the "Chicken Little" reports on gas prices ever since OPEC was formed. Strangely, we've all survived.
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:33 AM   #50
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Gas

Along with the $4 gas and moving to EV's means less gas is going to be bought which I'm sure what some people in high places want. We, who buy gas and cannot afford or do not want a EV, pay anywhere from .50 to .90 for every gallon of gas in taxes. That money goes to roads, bridges and infrastructure which is in sad shape now. What is going to happen with more EV's on the road using the same infrastructure and not paying the fuel taxes.
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:35 AM   #51
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Electric vehicles.... *yawn*....
They won't be viable for everyone in all parts of the country for at least several more generations of storage (batteries).
When I start seeing realistic functional electric farm equipment, I might start paying attention
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:37 AM   #52
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Along with the $4 gas and moving to EV's means less gas is going to be bought which I'm sure what some people in high places want. We, who buy gas and cannot afford or do not want a EV, pay anywhere from .50 to .90 for every gallon of gas in taxes. That money goes to roads, bridges and infrastructure which is in sad shape now. What is going to happen with more EV's on the road using the same infrastructure and not paying the fuel taxes.
Trust me, the government at all levels will figure out where to gain more tax income.... No worries there!!!!!
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:42 AM   #53
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:58 AM   #54
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DON'T COME TO CA. Premium fuel at my local Shell is $4.89.9.
The 76 station here in Running Springs, CA (a small mountain town) has premium at $5.09. We are leading the way for what others can expect.
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Old 06-19-2021, 12:14 PM   #55
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The 76 station here in Running Springs, CA (a small mountain town) has premium at $5.09. We are leading the way for what others can expect.
no State is like California. Don’t get me wrong I lived there for 27 years. But in Virginia where I live in a tourist town, the price of gas came down .10 per gal now at 2.89 and for you big D people lowest I have seen 3.01 a gal. As of today 6/19
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Old 06-19-2021, 12:15 PM   #56
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Trust me, the government at all levels will figure out where to gain more tax income.... No worries there!!!!!
Yep, but still waiting patiently. In some parts of the country you can see 10% of vehicles on the road are EV's while we continue to pay fuel taxes. And it is starting to hurt every time we fill our 55 gallon RV tanks so we can drive on roads that suck.
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Old 06-19-2021, 12:51 PM   #57
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Along with the $4 gas and moving to EV's means less gas is going to be bought which I'm sure what some people in high places want. We, who buy gas and cannot afford or do not want a EV, pay anywhere from .50 to .90 for every gallon of gas in taxes. That money goes to roads, bridges and infrastructure which is in sad shape now. What is going to happen with more EV's on the road using the same infrastructure and not paying the fuel taxes.
The solution to reduced fuel tax revenue, as more and more go to EV's or Public Transit, is already being explored by most States already.

First to "hit the streets" is an EV tax that is added to regular annual registration fees. Been in effect for several years here in WA State and has already been raised once since implementation.

Next in line is going to affect EVERYONE regardless of vehicle type. That would be the "Pay By Mile" plan. Only thing to be resolved is whether it's based on "Self Reporting" of annual mileage (like my Insurance Company requires) or through something like a transducer attached to the vehicle's OBDII port (like some other Insurance Companies do).

Personally I like either plan as I am a "low mileage" driver and my "fair share" will be more in line with my actual use rather than a Flat Fee as it is now.

Sadly, if the Pay By Mile pan is introduced the Legislature will most likely see fit to continue using the gas tax so they can collect from tourists passing through.
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Old 06-19-2021, 01:03 PM   #58
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Electric vehicles.... *yawn*....
They won't be viable for everyone in all parts of the country for at least several more generations of storage (batteries).
When I start seeing realistic functional electric farm equipment, I might start paying attention
I seriously doubt that anyone (at least those with functional brains) really expect to see electrical farm equipment anytime soon. If trying to reduce "Pollution" the obvious target market is where traffic is heavy and stop and go. Also where people move about only one person in a car.

Farm equipment I'm familiar with from when I grew up on a farm was usually running at near full power output most of the time which is far more efficient (more complete combustion of fuel) than cars sitting at idle in stalled traffic or accelerating from a stop dozens of times per hour.

Over the years there has also been discussion of "EV ONLY" zones in large cities where traffic often moves at walking speed and pollution can be thick enough to chew.

Electric farm equipment will only make it to market when it makes sense. Like a lot of other ideas formulated in legislatures or by policy makers, many are just impossible until the technology develops to the proper level.

In all my years I don't recall people, even the most rabid of environmentalists, ever suggesting that farm equipment was a major source of pollution (including greenhouse gasses) although it's been shown that "Cow Flatulence" does produce methane
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Old 06-19-2021, 01:07 PM   #59
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The 76 station here in Running Springs, CA (a small mountain town) has premium at $5.09. We are leading the way for what others can expect.
Premium gasoline has always had obscene prices. A more meaningful price comparison would be for the "commodity grade", Regular (85 or 87 Ron/Mon Octane).
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Old 06-19-2021, 01:29 PM   #60
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<snip>
Next in line is going to affect EVERYONE regardless of vehicle type. That would be the "Pay By Mile" plan. <snip>.
Personally, living 45 miles to the nearest stop light and 55 miles to the nearest WalMart/Costco/Home Depot, I would hate to see a pay by the mile.

The roads I travel are not used anywhere near as much as those near/in a city so require much less maintenance - but I would be paying way more than the city folk.

Gas in Helena, MT was $3.02 for RU and $3.25 for diesel last Thursday.
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