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Old 06-25-2021, 09:05 AM   #81
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Just let us know when you actually read a REAL newspaper instead of a propaganda machine that wouldnt know an oil barrel from a water barrel

Already discussed on page 2. You can get your news from wherever you want and I'll do the same. General attacks like this don't really say much.
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Old 06-25-2021, 09:11 AM   #82
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If you check time stamps, the drop coincides with the shutdown of the country in 2020.

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Already discussed on page 2. You can get your news from wherever you want and I'll do the same. General attacks like this don't really say much.
One thing I have found, watching NTD is that they report it as it is, no spin, no bias, no "money" shots. They also report on things the others, MSDNC, CNN, Fox don't cover. They don't pick and choose either, just report it like it should be. Let the viewer decide what to make of it, not tell the viewer what to make of it.
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Old 06-25-2021, 10:04 AM   #83
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Can lithium or cobalt batteries be recycled? I had understood they cannot. That will result in a huge environmental cleanup at some point. Solyndra debacle cost more to clean up than the wasted funding that went into it.





And that many of the materials, lithium especially, are mined by slaves in Africa.
Where do you get this information on lithium source. Africa isn't even on the list of primary lithium producers. Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Australia, China, and even Nevada.

Lithium ion batteries are also considered less toxic than most other chemistries using lead, cadmium, and even mercury in all the small batteries.

More scare tactics from the usual anti sources.
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Old 06-25-2021, 10:05 AM   #84
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My daily driver is a 100% electric car so I really haven't been feeling the sting of rising gas prices, at least not at the pump. I've got a 3 week, 6000+ mile camper trip coming up at the end of August. When I budgeted for that trip, I did my calculations based on $3.50 per gallon for diesel. I'm starting to wonder if I should increase that figure.
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Old 06-25-2021, 10:10 AM   #85
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My daily driver is a 100% electric car so I really haven't been feeling the sting of rising gas prices, at least not at the pump. I've got a 3 week, 6000+ mile camper trip coming up at the end of August. When I budgeted for that trip, I did my calculations based on $3.50 per gallon for diesel. I'm starting to wonder if I should increase that figure.
My daily driver is a plug in hybrid. Gas bill for it has averaged about $30 per year as 90% of my trips are on electricity.

Gas bill went down about $3,000 per year when I went down to just one gasser, my truck.
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Old 06-25-2021, 10:13 AM   #86
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I could care less what my fuel bill is when towing. I'm going anyway.
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Old 06-25-2021, 10:30 AM   #87
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It's not lithium that's being mined in Africa, by child labor, it's cobalt..
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Old 06-25-2021, 10:55 AM   #88
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As costs go up for everything we consume in our lives people will be faced with choices. Do I buy that new truck, trailer, motorhome. Or make do with my current one?

Do we take the long distance trip or stay closer to home?

Do we eat out every night or use the kitchen more?

With fuel costs more city dwellers will learn how to use the public transit rather than driving to and from work in their cars.

I've watched the ups and downs of fuel prices for over 60 years and we've all managed to weather the panics by making necessary adjustments.
I totally agree! We all make our own choices. As a product of my father, I salvage, recycle, and reuse. I make things to suit my needs and adjust my life when supplies become short or too expensive for my tastes. I am fortunate to be here in this great land of ours and feel very protective over it. Camping is my simple pleasure. Even though I am equipped with a few luxuries now doesn't mean I have to use them. Except the bed - I'm not giving up the bed! Being raised to camp in a tent will teach you; you don't need it just b/c someone is selling it. Until I retire, I keep the trips close to home. Getting away is the treat!
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Old 06-25-2021, 11:59 AM   #89
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Gas Prices

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Since June 1, we have clocked over 2700 miles pulling the TT. Our TV requires Premium gas, and the price was usually around $3.85/gal. $4.00/gal is not far off. The worst (and best) part is we have another 1100 miles to go before the end of the month.

3800/11*3.85=$1,330.00 or .35 /mile

We are in California, and fuel prices are way over the $4.00 range, I've seen gas and diesel at $4.85 a gallon, no end in site. What kind of tow vehicle do you own? All manufactures recommend regular unleaded, unless you have an older Ford Lightning.
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Old 06-25-2021, 12:13 PM   #90
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I totally agree! We all make our own choices. As a product of my father, I salvage, recycle, and reuse. I make things to suit my needs and adjust my life when supplies become short or too expensive for my tastes. I am fortunate to be here in this great land of ours and feel very protective over it. Camping is my simple pleasure. Even though I am equipped with a few luxuries now doesn't mean I have to use them. Except the bed - I'm not giving up the bed! Being raised to camp in a tent will teach you; you don't need it just b/c someone is selling it. Until I retire, I keep the trips close to home. Getting away is the treat!

One "adjustment" I've made, mostly because i prefer it, is to boondock as much as possible including long trips. Every night spent in an off grid means I've saved enough for more fuel. Two nights and I can afford a full tank of "California gas". LOL
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Old 06-25-2021, 12:38 PM   #91
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My daily driver is a plug in hybrid. Gas bill for it has averaged about $30 per year as 90% of my trips are on electricity.

Gas bill went down about $3,000 per year when I went down to just one gasser, my truck.
Didn't read every comment in thread so I apologize in advance if this has already been asked.

I see the $$ in gas savings but no mention of how much electric bill went up. I can't believe electricity to charge the vehicle is free. My electric bill goes down in the winter when I use natural gas heat but goes back up in summer with A/C.
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Old 06-25-2021, 12:51 PM   #92
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Didn't read every comment in thread so I apologize in advance if this has already been asked.



I see the $$ in gas savings but no mention of how much electric bill went up. I can't believe electricity to charge the vehicle is free. My electric bill goes down in the winter when I use natural gas heat but goes back up in summer with A/C.
When my main battery is depleted it takes about 17Kwh to fill it back up. I pay $0.105 per Kwh. Less than "a buck eighty" takes me up to 70 miles. Most of my local driving runs around 50 miles total per day (when I go out).

50 miles on my old car used 2.2 gallons of gasoline. My current "eMpg (combined electricity/gas equivalent) is around 620 "mpg". I buy gas only once per year and only because car's computer turns on engine from time to time to force me to keep gas in tank fresh.

Unlike a full EV, I can drive continuously up to 400+ miles using both battery and gas and doing that mileage is calculated in the mid 40's.

BTW I bought the Volt at the same time I converted all house lighting to LED. Electric bill stayed the same even though I added the level II charger in the garage.
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Old 06-25-2021, 03:10 PM   #93
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Let the viewer decide what to make of it, not tell the viewer what to make of it.

Unfortunately the viewer in a lot of cases doesn't possess the ability of critical thinking, tainted by their own biases which have been taught.
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Old 06-25-2021, 05:10 PM   #94
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Insults are how these threads get closed.
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Old 06-25-2021, 05:21 PM   #95
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I pay $0.105 per Kwh.
Is that your total rate after all the fees too? My home rate is about $0.12 per kwH but after the added fees, I pay $0.26 per kwH. My car gets 4 miles per kw which is the equivalent of 50 mpg when gas is $3.00 per gallon.

I get 250 miles on a full charge. That will drop to around 175 in the winter when a combination of cold affecting battery efficiency and running the heat.
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Old 06-25-2021, 06:07 PM   #96
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Is that your total rate after all the fees too? My home rate is about $0.12 per kwH but after the added fees, I pay $0.26 per kwH. My car gets 4 miles per kw which is the equivalent of 50 mpg when gas is $3.00 per gallon.

I get 250 miles on a full charge. That will drop to around 175 in the winter when a combination of cold affecting battery efficiency and running the heat.
This net, including a small "credit" from Bonneville Power which is the supplier to our PUD.

Costs a little more from private power companies nearby as well as the "Municipal" power companies.

My total bill for June was only $38 which included some A/C use. Even with trailer plugged in on it's pad running Refrigerator and Converter. And of course charging the car.

Right now gas is selling in my area for around 3.85 (unleaded 87).
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Old 06-25-2021, 06:34 PM   #97
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Thanks for the link! So crude dropped drastically starting in Feb 2020 (pandemic and plummeting demand) then started to rise in Nov. 2020 (elections), U.S. output dropped drastically in January and February 2021 because of severe freezes and weather in several oil producing states, and then just as it started to come back, a cyberattack shut a major producer down. One cause is weather, and the other a cyber attack.
Regarding your conclusion, what will put us at the mercy of world oil producers worst...holding on to our supply of oil so we continue to have adequate reserves, or selling it as cheaply as possible until we have drained as much as is economically feasible for the low prices...and then having to buy from other nations at their prices? (just wondering).

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...17-2021-04-30/
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Old 06-25-2021, 06:48 PM   #98
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Unfortunately the viewer in a lot of cases doesn't possess the ability of critical thinking, tainted by their own biases which have been taught.
What taints critical thinking is getting learning from biased sources. A good report has both the data, and the main facts (not opinions) that have contributed to the effects we see in the data. Data alone doesn't tell the story, as people will attribute the effects on the data according to their own biases, so we need "the whole story" as it were. Were there extreme weather events which affected the production output (yes). Were there outside circumstances (yes, pandemic kept people in, less oil needed, glut on market, prices lowered to incentivize purchases and to keep the product and income moving). Were there changes in regulations, the way the data is acquired, interpreted or other influences? Yes, a cyber attack, a changed administration that is often credited or blamed for changes, etc. What about worldwide influences. OPEC continuing to reduce its ouput, a competitor trying to under cut prices. All of those can be influencers that are obscured and we don't learn about when articles are published by those with agendas. When we do independent research of reliable resources, such as industry or government oversight reports, it can support or undermine the originally presented premise. If certain sources consistently are not backed up by the research, they lose credibility.
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Old 06-25-2021, 06:49 PM   #99
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I could care less what my fuel bill is when towing. I'm going anyway.
X2 I don't worry or fret about the price of gas. Gonna go anyway and enjoy my trips! Around $2.50 a gallon where I live.
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Old 06-25-2021, 06:49 PM   #100
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Wow, A Don't Hurt My Feelings Warning Before Posting Here

2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon 4X4

Price reflects upgrade to 3.6L V6 24V to eTorque option (285 HP/260 lb-ft/18-23 MPG/400 mi. range) $1,750 option

If you upgrade to 3.6L V6 24V to 3.0L V6 Turbo Diesel (260 HP/442 lb-ft/22-29 MPG 513 mi. range) $4,500 (minus above option)
$56,555


2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon 4xe
2.0L i4 DOHC DI Turbo PHEV (375 HP/470 lb-ft/50 MPGe/400 mi. range)

There was this statement: It will go 50 miles on a charge allowing many people to get to work and home every day without using any gas at all. (Wouldn't be in my case.)
$67,990

I selected the same options and if one wasn't available for the other, skipped it.
Now how much gas can you buy for that $11,435 difference? That's not taking into the account the gas you would inevitably use with the 4xe. That could be 4 years if only used as a commute vehicle. I personally keep vehicles between 4 and 6 years before getting new ones.

I know all vehicles will be different but there's always a premium between gas and diesel or electric vehicles. You're paying some of the differences up front and have to see how long before you start seeing any real savings. Are you going to keep the vehicle long enough before that savings is realized? How much more maintenance is required? How long before the batteries need replacing and incur that large cost? How much do you have to worry about planning a route and going out of your way just to find a place to fill up? Do you care about being able to fill up in 5 minutes and go?

Why this Jeep? Looking at a toy.

ESS sucks even if you can temporarily disable it. A Land Rover update magically disabled it by default last year and then another update later, back to the crap. Glad the HEMI doesn't have that.
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