Gas Prices Headed for a Spike

[CC75]

Originally Posted by RedRoverComeOver

Been eyeing the Hummer and disappointed in the non dino-juice option. Why they're rolling out the half a car option first with a worthless bed is beyond me. Didn't they learn with the H2 HUT? Almost pulled the trigger an a 2009 H2 but then they were being discontinued.

The problem with this one is the 300 mi. range claim and not due until '23. Show stopper for me.

No mention of tow ability...even 2 years out. They're probably too scared to say towing would take it down to 150 mi. All that potential power, wasted.

You have to tow an additional trailer with a diesel generator to charge it ever 50 miles.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Larry L

And when the batteries die, where do they all go?

Once again in case you missed it, they go to the recyclers. A whole industry has grown up around rebuilding EV batteries.

Even cells that can't be reused have their valuable elements recovered and go into new batteries.

They do not go into landfills.

[Brewhedd]

Originally Posted by Larry L

And when the batteries die, where do they all go?

https://inl.gov/article/sustainable-...cle-batteries/


I was wondering that myself.

[Bhrava]

Lithium pack refurbishment will be a good startup for some, there are already processes for recovering the elements.

In view of the stringent environmental regulations, availability of limited natural resources and ever increasing need of alternative energy critical elements, an environmental eco-friendly leaching process is reported for the recovery of lithium and cobalt from the cathode active materials of spent lithium-ion batteries of mobile phones. The experiments were carried out to optimize the process parameters for the recovery of lithium and cobalt by varying the concentration of leachant, pulp density, reductant volume and temperature. Leaching with 2 M sulfuric acid with the addition of 5% H2O2 (v/v) at a pulp density of 100 g/L and 75 °C resulted in the recovery of 99.1% lithium and 70.0% cobalt in 60 min. H2O2 in sulfuric acid solution acts as an effective reducing agent, which enhance the percentage leaching of metals. Leaching kinetics of lithium in sulfuric acid fitted well to the chemical controlled reaction model i.e. 1 − (1 − X)1/3 = kct. Leaching kinetics of cobalt fitted well to the model ‘ash diffusion control dense constant sizes spherical particles’ i.e. 1 − 3(1 − X)2/3 + 2(1 − X) = kct. Metals could subsequently be separated selectively from the leach liquor by solvent extraction process to produce their salts by crystallization process from the purified solution.

I have no qualms against EV. The country is just not ready for it yet. We need infrastructure and more efficient power generation plants.

However, considering that the car came out before paved roads, by decades, it's not the first time transportation out paced infrastructure. It will be at least anther decade or two before EV travel from coast to coast is a reality for everyone and not the few brave souls who travel at the risk of not finding a charging station in time.

I have had a few Hybrids, my favorite the 13 Fusion, best driving hybrid out there at the time. I just had issues with my back and found cars to be too uncomfortable to drive more than 20 minutes at a time so switched to a truck and haven't looked back since my daily drive pre-plandemic was 120 miles RT. The fusion went from NiMh to Lithium in 13, much smaller pack, lighter weight, and more energy density. The technology in the charge/discharge cycles work to extend the life of the cells, not the entire pack, but at the cell level. By regulating the current flow per cell, it prevents damage to the lithium core. It also balances the charge across all cells so they remain equal.

There is a drive to get more energy density per cell, and thats the Achilles heal for the EVs. When they can make smaller lighter packs with 400-500 mile capacity, then the EV world will take off and leave the ICE behind.

[Flybob]

There are lots of pieces to this puzzle. Many people forget to consider that it takes about the same amount of electricity to refine 1 gal of gas as it takes to power an EV for 20 mi. Therefore it is not an incremental increase on electricity demand. When you add in the fuel required to deliver the gas that last mile and difference in carbon emissions, EVs make sense. The charging network is such that It has never had a real impact on my travels. Maybe if I was 20 ans wanted to drive 7 hrs straight it might, but I usually stop for a bathroom/drink/stretch break every 250 miles so not a problem.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Bhrava

Lithium pack refurbishment will be a good startup for some, there are already processes for recovering the elements.









I have no qualms against EV. The country is just not ready for it yet. We need infrastructure and more efficient power generation plants.



However, considering that the car came out before paved roads, by decades, it's not the first time transportation out paced infrastructure.

We live in a society that tends to have good hindsight rather than foresight.

Just like with the first automobiles nobody saw the need for a road system that was more suitable to the "toys of the rich"

FWIW, the first major roads were built as much for jobs programs as for the transportation needs.

Sounds like a great time to revisit this approach with an EV infrastructure.

A "built it and they will come" approach.

[Bhrava]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

We live in a society that tends to have good hindsight rather than foresight.

Just like with the first automobiles nobody saw the need for a road system that was more suitable to the "toys of the rich"

FWIW, the first major roads were built as much for jobs programs as for the transportation needs.

Sounds like a great time to revisit this approach with an EV infrastructure.

A "built it and they will come" approach.

True. President Trump was on the path to doing so by cutting down all the regulations that stymie construction projects such as roads, highways and Nuclear power plants by streamlining the permit process and bureaucracy. It takes at least 20 years to build a nuclear power plant, which increases costs exponentially from first proposed costs. Between committees to investigate this, and hearings to investigate that, than studies to see impacts and such, no one want to even propose building one anymore. By cutting out the regulations behind all this, and making the permit process much faster, with inspections being done quickly, we could have Nuclear plants up in running in 5-7 years instead of the 20 it takes now and be just as safe.

Cut out the bloated Government standing in the way of progress will be a major first step in getting the American power grid up to the standards required to handle the influx of millions of EV vehicles.

On the flip side though, do some deep research to what is going into the manufacturing of the so called "green" power, like solar panels and wind towers. They may make free energy from wind and light, but the byproducts to produce and the waste when it is time to scrap are highly toxic. I'll take a dozen Nuke plants over one solar farm any day.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Bhrava

True. President Trump was on the path to doing so by cutting down all the regulations that stymie construction projects such as roads, highways and Nuclear power plants by streamlining the permit process and bureaucracy. It takes at least 20 years to build a nuclear power plant, which increases costs exponentially from first proposed costs. Between committees to investigate this, and hearings to investigate that, than studies to see impacts and such, no one want to even propose building one anymore. By cutting out the regulations behind all this, and making the permit process much faster, with inspections being done quickly, we could have Nuclear plants up in running in 5-7 years instead of the 20 it takes now and be just as safe.



Cut out the bloated Government standing in the way of progress will be a major first step in getting the American power grid up to the standards required to handle the influx of millions of EV vehicles.



On the flip side though, do some deep research to what is going into the manufacturing of the so called "green" power, like solar panels and wind towers. They may make free energy from wind and light, but the byproducts to produce and the waste when it is time to scrap are highly toxic. I'll take a dozen Nuke plants over one solar farm any day.

Years ago I was reading how Euopean countries built nuclear plants basically off one set of plans with just site adaptation. The EU now has 176 plants producing electricity.

The article stated that here in the US each plant starts with a blank sheet of paper which means each plant has to start the engineering and regulatory review from the beginning.

Also no competition as I believe only GE and Westinghouse were the only players.

For some reason the French had some good designs and experience but weren't allowed to play.

[KyDan]

Well to be honest this thread lasted longer than we thought it would.
Some folks just couldn't resist bringing govt/politics into the discussion.

Thread closed.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.