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Old 10-27-2020, 06:10 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Homebrew View Post
I know your wrong and the sign is wrong. If Im doing the speed limit there is no reason or law telling me to pull over to allow speeders to pass.
The only way I could be delaying 5 vehicles is going under the speed limit so doing the speed limit is valid unless speeding is legal.
Washington State recently passed a law addressing those who insisted they weren't breaking the law by driving the speed limit in the left lane.

The State Budget has been greatly enhanced since then when they are cited for failure to "stay right unless passing".

FWIW, it's been proven and used in setting speed limits, that 85% of the drivers on the road will drive at a safe and prudent speed regardless of what's posted. It's the 15% that the troopers focus on. Unfortunately some drivers figure that if they aren't caught it's OK. Others just figure that a ticket now and then is the price they pay for ignoring the limits.

Like I said earlier, raise the price and they may re-think this position.
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Old 10-27-2020, 06:20 PM   #102
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Washington State recently passed a law addressing those who insisted they weren't breaking the law by driving the speed limit in the left lane.



The State Budget has been greatly enhanced since then when they are cited for failure to "stay right unless passing".



FWIW, it's been proven and used in setting speed limits, that 85% of the drivers on the road will drive at a safe and prudent speed regardless of what's posted. It's the 15% that the troopers focus on. Unfortunately some drivers figure that if they aren't caught it's OK. Others just figure that a ticket now and then is the price they pay for ignoring the limits.



Like I said earlier, raise the price and they may re-think this position.

Left lane driving was never part of the conversation.
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:27 PM   #103
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It's funny how, in this thread, "being considerate" is defined as "You need to change your behavior so that I don't have to change mine".
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Old 10-28-2020, 06:31 AM   #104
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Titanmike does make a good point. If speeding fines were like $10k for every mile over the posted speed limit,there would be no cars stacking up behind us. Most people do 10-20 miles per hour over the speed limit, the state could make $100-$200k per person stopped.
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Old 10-28-2020, 06:50 AM   #105
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Titanmike does make a good point. If speeding fines were like $10k for every mile over the posted speed limit,there would be no cars stacking up behind us. Most people do 10-20 miles per hour over the speed limit, the state could make $100-$200k per person stopped.
What you mean is they could financially ruin someone for a victimless crime and maybe hope to recoup 10% of that fine from most people. If the average flow of traffic is 10-20 miles over the posted speed limit, a better discussion, rather than financial ruin of those traveling those speeds, is looking at reevaluating speed limits in those areas.

Where I used to live there is a 40 mile stretch of interstate that is a "safety corridor" where the speed limit drops from 65 mph to 55 mph and speeding fines are doubled. The average speed of traffic before and after the "safety corridor" is about 70 mph, or 5 over. In the "safety corridor" the average speed is... you guessed it, 70 mph, or 15 over. And I mean everybody goes that speed, including the state troopers. Someone going the posted speed limit becomes a bit of a hazard. This is a perfect example of a speed limit that needs to be reevaluated. However, the revenue generated due to doubled fines makes this unlikely.

99% of the time I'm going at or within 10 mph of the speed limit. I usually like to be going ever so slightly faster than the general flow of traffic on a multilane road, as I feel it's safer to be passing than to be passed, as I have control over what is ahead of me, not what is behind me. I also don't like large speed differentials, which is why I try to go slightly faster than traffic, not blazing past. On a two lane road, I usually travel at around 5 over, depending on what I'm driving and the conditions of the road. On the east coast the speed limits are often so slow as to be silly. Out west I often find I'm comfortable going below the speed limit. Truth be told I don't need a speed limit to tell me how fast to drive... But in order to keep my license free of points, I do need those signs.

I couldn't imagine living in a world where you could be fined tens of thousands of dollars for going a few miles over the speed limit. That kind of draconian government overreach should be condemned, not lauded.
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Old 10-28-2020, 06:52 AM   #106
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It's funny how, in this thread, "being considerate" is defined as "You need to change your behavior so that I don't have to change mine".
This shouldn't be surprising. Whenever someone is attempting to persuade others to be considerate, they are attempting to persuade them to change their behavior. If they were already considerate, there would be no need to persuade them to change. This is going by the assumption that the one doing the persuading doesn't need to change his or her behavior because they are already being considerate. Obviously therein lies the rub...
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Old 10-28-2020, 06:54 AM   #107
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Speeders think they are being safe while those of us who follow speed limits are the problem. Unfortunately, injuring themselves or someone else is the only way they will realize just how dangerous their driving habits are.
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Old 10-28-2020, 08:16 AM   #108
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I guess I'm too old......I simply don't get/it.....if driving faster than the "Posted" speed limit is to be tolerated & even encouraged......What is the purpose of posting a "Speed Limit"??...
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Old 10-28-2020, 09:15 AM   #109
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How does the trooper determine if the line of vehicles is not a caravan or a group traveling together?

Sounds like your saying it’s ok to break the law and speed but it’s not ok to have people behind you?

I’d love to see this in court where a RVer is accused of doing the speed limit and a trooper complaining that there were speeder behind the RV that needed to break the speed limit. Something is wrong in Alaska if this is true.
I would say that the Trooper uses common sense. It is not uncommon during camping/fishing season here in Alaska to find long lines of traffic. Our camping season is relatively short as compared to the lower 48. I have seen traffic bumper to bumper from Anchorage down to the Kenai on the Seward & Sterling highways in summer months. Many places have ongoing road construction and you are forced to slow down, and the traffic backs up. The Troopers understand this. I don't know of anyone who has received a ticket for holding-up 5 or more vehicles on a highway, but I know many that have received tickets for speeding. Here is a common occurrence in Alaska:
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Old 10-28-2020, 09:35 AM   #110
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What you mean is they could financially ruin someone for a victimless crime...
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The 2016 national data shows that:

Distraction-related deaths (3,450 fatalities) decreased by 2.2 percent;
Drowsy-driving deaths (803 fatalities) decreased by 3.5 percent;
Drunk-driving deaths (10,497 fatalities) increased by 1.7 per*cent;
Speeding-related deaths (10,111 fatalities) increased by 4.0 percent;
Unbelted deaths (10,428 fatalities) increased by 4.6 percent;
Motorcyclist deaths (5,286 fatalities the largest number of motorcyclist fatalities since 2008) increased by 5.1 percent;
Pedestrian deaths (5,987 fatalities the highest number since 1990) increased by 9.0 percent; and
Bicyclist deaths (840 fatalities the highest number since 1991) increased by 1.3 percent.
A few years old, but pertinent.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases...fic-crash-data
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Old 10-28-2020, 09:38 AM   #111
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Titanmike does make a good point. If speeding fines were like $10k for every mile over the posted speed limit,there would be no cars stacking up behind us. Most people do 10-20 miles per hour over the speed limit, the state could make $100-$200k per person stopped.
You live in a different world than me. Around here, there are many, many times where cars are stacked up behind people going under the speed limit ... and it's definitely not restricted to just RVs and big rigs. Few people are doing 10-20 mph over the speed limit where I live (or have ever lived). 5-10 is much more common.

Single lane (in each direction) travel is pretty clear: move over when safe.

Multiple lane (in each direction) is also pretty clear: stay right unless you're passing. Here is a collection of "Stay Right" laws compiled by MIT with links. A lot of this is summarized well in the Wikipedia page about lane travel.

Finally, here is a good infographic:


There are two keys here to remember:
  1. Your speed doesn't matter. 5 mph under, exactly the speed limit, 5 mph over, etc. Irrelevant. If you're not actively passing someone, move right. Period. This is the same for semis, RVs, passenger cars, horse and buggy, etc.
  2. What the other guy does is not your concern. You're not moving over "to let others speed." Don't worry about the others. Worry about yourself. The law dictates you move over, so move over. What "the others" do isn't your concern. You are not endowed with the responsibilty or authority to prevent what you may perceive to be their bad behavior. If you want to to that, get a job in law enforcement.
For those in the "I'm not moving over if I'm doing the speed limit" camp, just be aware that the law doesn't agree with you. This Colorado State brochure does a good job of explaining how these Move Right laws help balance reasonable speed with traffic flow.

South Dakota is the only state that, in contradiction to the federal Uniform Vehicle Code, allows people to travel in whatever lane at whatever speed. Seems like a lot of you would be happier driving in SD.
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Old 10-28-2020, 10:57 AM   #112
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For the record, I'm not advocating speeding (besides keeping up with traffic going a bit over the speed limit). I'm advocating letting others go on their way and not policing the people around them on the roads.

Well, I also find the idea of fining speeders tens of thousands of dollars asinine...
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:00 AM   #113
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For the record, I'm not advocating speeding ...
Just had to call you out on the "victimless crime" thing. Otherwise I agree with you.
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:03 PM   #114
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Citation, please.
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From the CA drivers handbook, page 49.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/uploads/2020/06/dl600.pdf
Many western states (most? all?) have similar requirements.
I checked the VA drivers manual and was surprised to not find
any requirement for this given the Appalachian's in the state.
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:08 PM   #115
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I also want to make it clear that I am no advocating travel in the right most lane for any purpose other than passing. However, if I'm on a single lane road or people choose to hang out behind me rather than passing me legally on a multi lane road, that's tough s**t for them.
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:12 PM   #116
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From the CA drivers handbook, page 49.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/uploads/2020/06/dl600.pdf
Many western states (most? all?) have similar requirements.
I checked the VA drivers manual and was surprised to not find
any requirement for this given the Appalachian's in the state.

I would argue that traveling the speed limit, aka the fastest legal speed for the road, I am not driving slowly and am under no obligation to pull over.
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:13 PM   #117
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[...] I checked the VA drivers manual and was surprised to not find any requirement for this given the Appalachian's in the state.
Drivers manual isn't necessarily the law, nor is it necessarily comprehensive in the laws that it discusses. For Virginia, per the information I posted above, the relevant law is: 46.2-804(1). As noted above in my information about Colorado, Virginia is also careful to select language for "normal speed," and not "speed limit." Again, the reason is so that there is more latitude for LEOs to enforce laws to ensure proper flow of traffic ... going the speed limit is not an excuse for violating VA 46.2-804.
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:14 PM   #118
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I would argue that traveling the speed limit, aka the fastest legal speed for the road, I am not driving slowly and am under no obligation to pull over.
Few, if any, laws would agree with you. You could certainly make that argument, but you'd likely lose it. The laws do not make exceptions for going the speed limit. Move right unless you're passing. Period.

If you want to read more about this and why your conventional wisdom is not shared by the states or LEOs, read above where I posted more information.

I assume you're in MA. If so, then it's even more strict than other states. In MA, you can't even be in the center lane when not passing, whereas other states tend to be specific about the left-most lane only. In MA, you must move all the way right when not passing. Your speed and how it relates to the posted speed limit is irrelevant to the compliance with this law.

I also believe that in MA they complement this law with another that makes it illegal to pass on the right.
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Old 10-28-2020, 03:19 PM   #119
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How many cars do you stack up?


I know this has nothing to do with the subject being debated but it came to mind after 19 years.

One year while doing major maintenance on the car shredder, changing rotor, liner plates, grates and installing a new under-mill shaker, we had to stack crushed cars as high as the cranes could reach. We had cars stacked 35 high. One morning we got to work and 2 of the stacks had collapsed, they did not fall over as the cars in the middle had slid out coming within 8 feet of the maintenance shop.


As a side question, does anyone know what happened to the 2 LEO's that used to frequent the forums? I believe one was Dward, the other was a state patrol DOT inspector for PA.
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Old 10-28-2020, 07:21 PM   #120
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I was referring to the CA law stating that slower traffic on 2 lane roads pull off into turnout areas to allow traffic to pass.
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