I don't get it. - Page 2

dimurrrw · 06-10-2010, 09:53 PM

I must be missing something. I don't think the issue here was about how "big" a tow vehicle or trailer you have. Rather, I think it is about whether a tow vehicle and trailer are a safe match for their potential use, as Chap says. Tow anything you want, with anything you want to tow with. But know and consider all of the factors involved, and don't have a combination that will potentially get you or somebody else killed. As we all know, there are several factors besides the numbers for the TV and TT that affect safety - like wheelbase, hitch, sway control, loading, etc.

vikesfan24 · 06-10-2010, 10:16 PM

I asked the question earlier that probably got the initial poster all riled up. I don't think asking questions of experienced rvers is so bad. At work I tow with a 3/4 Cummins all the time. Most times the trailers are pretty light so I haven't worried about it too much. I was just wondering how close EXPERIENCED rvers run trucks to the max towing. I go to RV salesmen and they tell me my truck can go 8600 to 9000 which I know is wrong. I have a known limit on my truck and I thought I would come here for a little help. I don't plan on going over my max towing limit-in my post I am more so trying to find out how close I can SAFELY go. I guess what I should do is just by the camper-hook it up to my truck-find out my truck can't pull it-and then buy a new truck. Or maybe I could just ask a few questions on a forum.

LadyWindrider · 06-10-2010, 10:42 PM

WOW, this is starting to sound like "WHICH OIL IS BEST".
Two things: if you want to learn from those that have been there, hang around. If you're looking for justification for an "unsafe" set up, go somewhere else. I have found most of the people on here give great advice and recommendations. Most are willing to research your tow vehicle and trailer to see if any of the numbers come up one "safe" side of life. Whether they are concerned for tour safety or their own, you have to be the judge. We all share the road, and I don't any of us wants to see anybody get hurt with an unsafe set up, much less tie up traffic we're trying to get through. Id you think you have been handed a wrong answer on here, do the research yourself, and prove us wrong! ENUF SAID.

vikesfan24 · 06-10-2010, 10:52 PM

That's the thing. I don't think I've been handed the wrong answer. Everything that I was told made sense to me and I've decided to look at a smaller camper. I was told that it would be really close but I should be alright(and I appreciate the answer). Well I decided I don't want to push it. I've got a wife and 3 kids and pushing it is not an option. The advice a received was exactly what I was looking for. I knew all the facts going in, asked a few questions about weight when stocking a trailer and came to a conclusion. Kind of thought that's what these boards were for.

grhodes50 · 06-10-2010, 11:16 PM

I didn't buy my F-250 (max tow rating 9,700 lbs) for more power, it has the same 5.4 V8 that my F-150 (max tow rating 8,000 lbs) had. I bought it for the stability it gives me while towing my loaded 7,800 lb, 34' trailer (GVWR 8,058 lbs).
I drive between 60 and 65 mph without any problems. High winds, rain, passing semi's, unexpected stops, the truck handles everything just fine. I couldn't say that about the F-150.
The information I read on this forum led me to believe the F-250 was the best choice in my situation and the F-250 may be a little overkill, but I would rather have too much truck than not enough.
I don't believe everyone has to have a 3/4 ton truck as a tow vehicle, but I do believe that if you are close to your max numbers (GVWR, GCWR, Max Tow Rating, etc....) your not going to have a very good or safe towing experience, especially in adverse conditions.
Oh yeah, 90% of our camping trips are to a state park less than 20 miles from my house. When I was looking for a new truck I told my wife, "I don't care if I'm towing 200 miles or 20 miles, I want to do it safely."

Chasracer · 06-11-2010, 10:12 AM

Being a drag racer, I have seen some wild tow deals over the years. Vehicles that had no business pulling a 30 foot box come in with the front wheels barely touching the ground sometimes! And then you hear the stories of how they made the trip, but their hindparts were cinched the entire trip. But guess what, they'll do it again next week too.

I sometimes think that they figure if the trailer tongue will fit the ball on the hitch, then they are good to go. I once watched a guy towing down the road with a 5th wheel mounted to a F-150. Not sure who sold him that deal, but the guy was sawing away at the steering wheel, and I was thinking I would be wore out within a 100 miles.

The latest one I noticed was a guy towing a 24-28 foot box with the ball mounted to the bumper on his pickup truck. The bumper was already bending down at a 45 degree angle, but he didn't seem to be bothered by it. All I know to do is give them a lot of room and hope nothing happens to them.

NWJeeper · 06-11-2010, 10:32 AM

Chasracer:

You illustrate my point exactly. My rant was not aimed at an individual here, it was not aimed at new people asking questions, it isn't about "everyone should just by an F350", it isn't about a single type of TV or trailer.

This is about an attitude. A way of thinking that I just can't wrap my brain around or condone which is: It's O.K. to be unsafe as long as I am only towing on flat ground or within 3 hours of home.

Some here in this discussion have read way too much into it.

Like I said originally. Safety starts in the driveway.

Everyone is free to pull what ever they want with whatever they've got as there are no regulations however I just pray to god that no one here is in the way of some of the people you have described when everything goes down the toilet.

To me it's just like drunk driving. Sure you made it home 30 times in a row, but sooner or later the odds are that your going to wrap it around a tree!

cfsoistman · 06-11-2010, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWJeeper

Chasracer:

You illustrate my point exactly. My rant was not aimed at an individual here, it was not aimed at new people asking questions, it isn't about "everyone should just by an F350", it isn't about a single type of TV or trailer.

This is about an attitude. A way of thinking that I just can't wrap my brain around or condone which is: It's O.K. to be unsafe as long as I am only towing on flat ground or within 3 hours of home.

Some here in this discussion have read way too much into it.

Like I said originally. Safety starts in the driveway.

Everyone is free to pull what ever they want with whatever they've got as there are no regulations however I just pray to god that no one here is in the way of some of the people you have described when everything goes down the toilet.

To me it's just like drunk driving. Sure you made it home 30 times in a row, but sooner or later the odds are that your going to wrap it around a tree!

Couldn't agree with you more. I've worked with a few individuals that bend the elbow a bit too much and then brag about how they got home. It only takes ONE time and someone can end up dead. It's just not worth the risk. I just hope and pray that no one here ever has to be involved in an accident with any of the Risk Takers. Have a great weekend and be safe!

shineysideup · 06-11-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfsoistman

Couldn't agree with you more. I've worked with a few individuals that bend the elbow a bit too much and then brag about how they got home. It only takes ONE time and someone can end up dead. It's just not worth the risk. I just hope and pray that no one here ever has to be involved in an accident with any of the Risk Takers. Have a great weekend and be safe!

I recently saw a person towing with a minivan... the wrong way. No W.D., no sway control, hitch almost dragging on the ground, stopped eating at a Harvey's restaurant with a baby, a toddler and his wife.

Everything was wrong about his setup. I hope they made it home. I wanted to educate him but I'm not sure how I would approach a complete stranger and point out the risks he was taking...

I can only hope that the MTO or police would pull him over for an unsafe vehicle. Not all that likely, I've saw this several times in the past few years.

rockwood06 · 06-11-2010, 02:08 PM

Saftey is #1 no matter If you are heading out for a 10 mile trip or a 1,000 mile trip and if you are not using the proper equipment it will catch up to you. There is no amount of money that can replace life and if you choose this rout and have no and respect for other on the road then you are part of the problem not part of the solution. Rather then spend lets say $10,000 more for the right tow vehicle for the next 2 or 3 hour trip you could looses every thing you have work for over the span of your life and I am sure it would be more the $10,000 bucks up to this point, and not only this but have the death of another traveler burned in your brain and haunt you. An accident is an accident but when the accident is cause by using improper equipment there is NO excuse. Get educated an use the right equipment.
I am sorry but this puts my panties in a bunch because I am on the road with everone else, It's one thing being a newbie and trying to find out the correct way to do things and that's why we are here on this forum to help, but knowingly doing the wrong thing........that's it I can't say any more.
NWJeeper, you are right on and so is everyone else that has followed your lead.

vikesfan24 · 06-11-2010, 02:53 PM

I apologize for flying off the handle a little bit on this thread.

Safety is always a concern when I am towing. I tow a trailer a few days a week for work and have learned how important safety is. My problem with an RV is how many variables they have. What is the true dry weight with all options-how much weight is added after stocking etc... My Cummins at work has a max towing capacity of around 12000lbs. I know the exact weights of all the cable reels that I put on and never have ended up over 9500lbs. But it's a totally different kind of tow. I have low, compact, and heavy reels rather than a tall wind catching RV. I guess, because I am unfamiliar with towing rv's compared to flatbeds, I was looking for some information. Sorry again.

rockwood06 · 06-11-2010, 03:44 PM

Back in the day in Maryland MVA came out with letter codes on drivers licenses I had applied for a "class B" and pass the test because the Company I worked for bought trucks that no one could drive, they required at least a "class B", the weight on a "class B" is up to 20,000 LBS. As time changed we now have the CDL and I did not change over to the CDL but I still have a "Class B" for what ever that is worth, but I still remember the training and it has come in handy while towing my travel trailer.
12,000 lbs is 12,000lbs but if it is a low riding load that's one thing, but when you have an 8' box that is another, wind resistance, 18 wheelers going by you at 100 mph etc etc so there is a difference and it is very important to have the correct TV and equipment under these conditions. I like at it this way people that tow RV's are not professional drive but they lean over time on how to handle there rigs and not by training as do CDL drivers do. We all have to be part of the solution not part of the problem, but one can not learn the correct way to handle there rig if the wrong equipment is used, it's a different felling all together.

PastorPaul · 06-11-2010, 07:21 PM

The old addage applies. You can lead a horse to water but you cann't make hime drink.

Acara · 06-14-2010, 07:05 PM

I think people ignore the difference between "can" and "should" .....

I learned the hard wayt hat there is a HUGE difference between a "ride" to your destination/home and an "safe and enjoyable ride" to your home/destination.

Unfortunately it took me a year of exhaustion, white-knuckle drives, close calls & almost selling the TT because I was terrified to tow it, in order to to learn that lesson.

Tow vehicle length, towing weight ratios, wheel base, proper tow hardware and proper packing are critical.

Towing 4100# on a V6 SUV with no towing package may be okay "by-the-numbers" and according to your dealer & upgrading for an extra 2-4 mpg on the gas mileage may seem like a waste ...... but the quality of the drive to and from your destinations is worth every penny.

Big bird · 06-14-2010, 07:32 PM

I am not sure Diesel Magazine totally agrees with you. In the current issue they say you can push the max a tad if you do not push the unit. But there is no question that 90% of us go more than a few miles and at higher speeds. Why risk life and limb for a few hundred dollars.

Big Bird

flyrotor · 06-15-2010, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big bird

I am not sure Diesel Magazine totally agrees with you. In the current issue they say you can push the max a tad if you do not push the unit. But there is no question that 90% of us go more than a few miles and at higher speeds. Why risk life and limb for a few hundred dollars.

Big Bird

Here is one of the problems, many trucks have the power to pull....

It's stopping that often puts them in jeopardy,

That guy that jumped of a bridge was never hurt, right up until that sudden stop at the bottom.

rockwood06 · 06-15-2010, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyrotor

Here is one of the problems, many trucks have the power to pull....

It's stopping that often puts them in jeopardy,

That guy that jumped of a bridge was never hurt, right up until that sudden stop at the bottom.

One thing about stopping, it's a judgement call. Speed, and knowing how your rig handles along with the proper equipment. We all are in jeopardy when we are on the road and other take chances with inadequate equipment because they don't think that spending the extra money is worth it.
As far as the guy jumping off of the bridge, well once his feet leaves the ground he then has no braking power until he hits bottom, so he has no equipment at all.

pondlady · 06-15-2010, 06:28 AM

Ah, but what a ride going down.

Bois D'Arc · 06-28-2010, 10:30 PM

Unsafe use of tow vehicles is not limited to RVers. I was a commercial fleet salesman for Ford Trucks for years and you wouldn't believe what some commercial users would do with light trucks. The most common remark was "well it pulls it just fine." Sure it pulls it, the 7.3L Powerstroke we were selling at that time could be bought in an F250 or an F750 which was a 33,000 lb. truck. Most unsafe towing could be avoided by simply reading the manufacturers' manuals and applying a little common sense. The bottom line is don't rationalize away your life to save a few hundred bucks, buy equipment designed to do the job you want to do.

LadyWindrider · 06-28-2010, 11:29 PM

I mentioned this one other time, and I'll repeat it here. Take your trailer, new or old, for a "test tow". During this tow, find a fairly vacant parking lot, and go to one end. Unplug the the trailer harness, and then accelerate to about 20 mph. Now, try to stop, and be warned, no trailer plug, no trailer brakes, so try to stop fast. Do it a couple of times and see how it feels. Now, on the return home, ask yourself, do I have enough vehicle if things go wrong? That's only one question. The real question is, DO I HAVE ENOUGH SKILL if things go wrong? Any Pilot can land a plane on a nice dry runway that is plenty long. It's the training for emergency procedures that keeps planes in the air, few accidents, and people flying. We all need to train the same way with our tow rigs, practice emergencies, know what you can and can't do, when you have no trailer brakes, or other emergencies. Tow it, SLOWLY, without sway control, if you have the friction type, in case it ever breaks and you get caught that way. Load it incorrectly, and take a drive. Most anybody can do it when all goes well, it takes a trained professional, like Captain Scully, to land in the Hudson river with an airplane not designed for water landings.

Now go and practice!

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