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Old 05-21-2019, 11:06 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by BandJCarm View Post
I definitely replied to their email.

And in an effort towards fairness, I'll state that CW just replied to my email, a few moments ago. I know there are many who have read what their CEO said, so I offer this reply to my email, because I doubt folks will see their reply anywhere else.


Thank you for your email regarding the comments you saw. We want you to know the real story.

What you saw on social media or heard is very inaccurate, which unfortunately is too common and easy to circulate these days. These social media banners appear every quarter. Marcus is very aware and appreciates that many of our shoppers are Trump supporters. He was aware of that well over a year and a half ago last August 2017 on CNBC when he asked that Camping World not be supported by those who believe skin color or political beliefs makes any one person inferior to another. This belief is clearly not something that supporters of the President, nor most Americans, hold, which is why Marcus’s comments were never to discourage members of any one political party from shopping with us.

Unfortunately, these images and quotes circulated on social media are totally false, which we can’t control. Marcus never once stated or would say that Trump supporters aren’t welcome at Camping World. We welcome all.
Again we appreciate your email.


To the Moderators. I am convinced I have said nothing inflammatory or even controversial. If you believe otherwise, please let me know. CW is a huge company and very relative to all of us, the Campers. So simply reporting on what they say should be good, I'd think.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:21 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by DieselDrax View Post
You do understand that this is referring to actual, physical, real flags, right? Not depictions or designs of the flag put on paper, clothing, etc.

Meaning don't take a real flag and turn it into clothes, a tablecloth, napkins, etc.

It is NOT saying you cannot put depictions of the flag onto items. That is not a violation of the flag code.
I don't mean for this to become a flame war, but it IS exactly saying that you shouldn't use depictions of the flag onto items. However, usage and custom have changed. I have clothes that have flags on them-- but I also know it is a technical violation of the code as enacted. Flag etiquette has simply changed. I'm guessing our casual attitude toward flag courtesy would have really ruffled some feathers in 1942 when Congress enacted the law.

The code literally says:

(i) ... It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:36 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by david_reaves View Post
I don't mean for this to become a flame war, but it IS exactly saying that you shouldn't use depictions of the flag onto items. However, usage and custom have changed. I have clothes that have flags on them-- but I also know it is a technical violation of the code as enacted. Flag etiquette has simply changed. I'm guessing our casual attitude toward flag courtesy would have really ruffled some feathers in 1942 when Congress enacted the law.

The code literally says:

(i) ... It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.
I don't think you understand what "depiction" means.

https://www.legion.org/flag/question...ed-states-flag

https://www.legion.org/flag/question...efinition-flag

Some actions do violate the flag code but not all of them do. Just because there's a depiction of the flag or something may resemble the design of the flag that does not make them flags and subject to the flag code.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:57 AM   #24
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It's just a piece of cloth people. There are MANY more pressing issues to direct your anger towards. How about health care, school safety, homelessness, disease, terrorism, human trafficking, crime...just to name a few.
It may just be a piece of cloth to you but to others it is much more than that, myself included.
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:49 PM   #25
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Flag at camping world

It is also a way to get put onto a mailing list. Don't sign the petition, if you do, immediately unsubscribe
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Old 05-21-2019, 01:12 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by BandJCarm View Post
And in an effort towards fairness, I'll state that CW just replied to my email, a few moments ago. I know there are many who have read what their CEO said, so I offer this reply to my email, because I doubt folks will see their reply anywhere else.


Thank you for your email regarding the comments you saw. We want you to know the real story.

What you saw on social media or heard is very inaccurate, which unfortunately is too common and easy to circulate these days. These social media banners appear every quarter. Marcus is very aware and appreciates that many of our shoppers are Trump supporters. He was aware of that well over a year and a half ago last August 2017 on CNBC when he asked that Camping World not be supported by those who believe skin color or political beliefs makes any one person inferior to another. This belief is clearly not something that supporters of the President, nor most Americans, hold, which is why Marcus’s comments were never to discourage members of any one political party from shopping with us.

Unfortunately, these images and quotes circulated on social media are totally false, which we can’t control. Marcus never once stated or would say that Trump supporters aren’t welcome at Camping World. We welcome all.
Again we appreciate your email.


To the Moderators. I am convinced I have said nothing inflammatory or even controversial. If you believe otherwise, please let me know. CW is a huge company and very relative to all of us, the Campers. So simply reporting on what they say should be good, I'd think.


I have no use for Camping World, C/W would never have had the statement retracted if so many people had not left C/W. Just my opinion. You could put a lot of little flags up instead of one to big. I have never seen a US flag on a military base as big as the one C/W is flying. All C/W wants to do is get the people that left to come back
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Old 05-21-2019, 02:39 PM   #27
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It's just a piece of cloth people. There are MANY more pressing issues to direct your anger towards. How about health care, school safety, homelessness, disease, terrorism, human trafficking, crime...just to name a few.
Amen to that Tim, but, it is a symbol of our country so it should be treated with respect always.
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:07 PM   #28
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It may just be a piece of cloth to you but to others it is much more than that, myself included.

Same here. That "piece of cloth" takes on a whole new meaning when you take an oath to defend the country it represents and even more when a loved one is buried with "that piece of cloth" draped on their casket.

FWIW, the oath was to protect the Constitution which protects the right of people to freely express their views. Express away, just try to avoid outright disrespect to the symbol of the Country that guarantees your right.

Since the creation of our country approximately 585,000 men and women have been killed in defending (one way or another) that Constitution and the rights it guarantees.
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:27 PM   #29
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I have told DW that when I die not to have a open casket but have a flag draped casket. Maybe a crack in the coffin listening to taps one last time. To some of us the flag is more than just cloth. It’s just advertising to Camping World. But it’s just my opinion, that’s what’s so great about America is we can all have different opinions
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:43 PM   #30
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It's just a piece of cloth people. There are MANY more pressing issues to direct your anger towards. How about health care, school safety, homelessness, disease, terrorism, human trafficking, crime...just to name a few.
2X -- exactly
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:37 PM   #31
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You do understand that this is referring to actual, physical, real flags, right? Not depictions or designs of the flag put on paper, clothing, etc.


Meaning don't take a real flag and turn it into clothes, a tablecloth, napkins, etc.


It is NOT saying you cannot put depictions of the flag onto items. That is not a violation of the flag code.


Whhhewwww. I was watching closely after the threat to the bikinis. Whheeewww.
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:09 PM   #32
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I wonder if other countries feel the same way about their flags? Any Canadians here?

As for CW, i got the email too. I have zero problems with any business or individual American, OR any non citizen flying the US flag, as long as its respectful. I honestly have never walked “into” a store “because” it had a US flag. Has anyone? To claim some business is only doing it for advertising is really a stretch, no? I just don’t see how it can be called “advertising”? Its “everywhere”.

Its common for individuals and businesses to fly the flag. Whats uncommon is for some non elected bureaucrat to say someone “cant” fly a flag especially, when it is being done respectfully. I oppose those idiots and dare them to tell me to take mine done.

As for the “just a cloth” vs “real problems” comments... nah, the two are not compared. Its not an either or thing. You can be patriotic and zealous AND be just as concerned about “real problems”. Just be respectful of that cloth and those that serve and died for the freedom that we all enjoy here in the USA.

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Old 05-21-2019, 09:37 PM   #33
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I wonder if other countries feel the same way about their flags? Any Canadians here?

As for CW, i got the email too. I have zero problems with any business or individual American, OR any non citizen flying the US flag, as long as its respectful. I honestly have never walked “into” a store “because” it had a US flag. Has anyone? To claim some business is only doing it for advertising is really a stretch, no? I just don’t see how it can be called “advertising”? Its “everywhere”.

Its common for individuals and businesses to fly the flag. Whats uncommon is for some non elected bureaucrat to say someone “cant” fly a flag especially, when it is being done respectfully. I oppose those idiots and dare them to tell me to take mine done.

As for the “just a cloth” vs “real problems” comments... nah, the two are not compared. Its not an either or thing. You can be patriotic and zealous AND be just as concerned about “real problems”. Just be respectful of that cloth and those that serve and died for the freedom that we all enjoy here in the USA.

James
When it comes to regulation on flags, a couple of issues are often involved. Public safety, making sure the flag isnt too large for the pole and its foundation. A permit may have been granted for a certain size flag based on actual pole structure.

Another is noise. When the wind blows large flags can be extremely noisy. In Idaho a well known billionaire had a flag flying on a pole in front of his mansion that beyond huge. Neighbors as far as a half mile away complained about the noise.

Sometimes there are good reasons for size limits.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:41 PM   #34
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Whhhewwww. I was watching closely after the threat to the bikinis. Whheeewww.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:13 AM   #35
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I don't think you understand what "depiction" means.

https://www.legion.org/flag/question...ed-states-flag

https://www.legion.org/flag/question...efinition-flag

Some actions do violate the flag code but not all of them do. Just because there's a depiction of the flag or something may resemble the design of the flag that does not make them flags and subject to the flag code.
Depiction: noun, representation in image form, as in a painting or illustration.

Both your links to the American Legion show is what I said earlier, the standards and customs for what is respectful have changed. The law itself, if interpreted by the words written, is very clear. I wonder what a soldier, sailor, or Marine in 1943 would have said about most of the things we do to the flag today. I'm guessing there would be a much different standard.applied. Remember, those were the people dying in North Africa, Sicily, on Guadacanal and on Tarawa in the Gilbert Islands. The flag REALLY meant something to them.

Customs have changed-- but accept that the customs are not within the letter of the law. Too many people insist that what they chose to believe is the truth, even when facts clearly show otherwise.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:44 AM   #36
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Folks......Please don't forget the main issue here. It's not about the FLAG, it's only about the SIZE, which is in violation of city code. That's all this is.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:45 AM   #37
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Depiction: noun, representation in image form, as in a painting or illustration.

Both your links to the American Legion show is what I said earlier, the standards and customs for what is respectful have changed. The law itself, if interpreted by the words written, is very clear. I wonder what a soldier, sailor, or Marine in 1943 would have said about most of the things we do to the flag today. I'm guessing there would be a much different standard.applied. Remember, those were the people dying in North Africa, Sicily, on Guadacanal and on Tarawa in the Gilbert Islands. The flag REALLY meant something to them.

Customs have changed-- but accept that the customs are not within the letter of the law. Too many people insist that what they chose to believe is the truth, even when facts clearly show otherwise.
Right on. You nailed it.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:17 PM   #38
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I believe that if the flag is flown at night it must be lighted. And I don't think bigger is better.
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Old 05-22-2019, 04:24 PM   #39
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This type of complaint always kills me... people say, "we won't tolerate that disrespect for the flag" Then wear the flag as hot pants, use flag napkins, on and on and on. The American flag is plastered on shirts, bikinis, socks, election campaign merchandise, and party favors like napkins and plates, signs and banners. Very few of the complainers have ever read the flag code:

US Code, Title 36, Chapter 10 "Patriotic Customs"

Paragraph 176, Respect for Flag

[the relevant sections start at sub paragraph d]

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.

(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
I'm in Canada and a member of a Lions club. We provide brackets, poles and flags for our downtown merchants to display our National flag on certain holidays and local celebrations during the year, in return for a small donation. It makes our business area a very special place on these days. Our problem this year was that we had a number of old and tattered flags which could no longer be flown. We found on researching the matter, that the proper method for disposal of a flag in Canada is to burn it!! This was quite a surprise, but that's what we did. I note also that in your rules as quoted and also in ours, the statements say only "should". This leaves every policy open to arguments as to applicability and enforceability. I also have a problem with the use of our flag and certain other emblems in some tasteless ways.

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Old 05-22-2019, 04:29 PM   #40
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I believe that if the flag is flown at night it must be lighted. And I don't think bigger is better.
I've researched this one for applicability in Canada and it is not a rule here. I suppose when flag etiquette was first codified, there was no such thing as floodlighting.

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