If Lawsuit Is True

[ard58]

I get emails from CW and got this one yesterday. If it's true?! What's this country coming to? Are there any members from Statesville NC? Is this real?

This is about our Veterans, Military, and the men and women that have sacrificed for this great Country. The City of Statesville, North Carolina has filed a lawsuit seeking an injunction to require Gander RV in Statesville to take down their American Flag. They are imposing a $50/day fine retroactive to 10/15/18. Many cities like Statesville have requested that Camping World and Gander Outdoors take down their American Flags. WE WON'T DO IT!

[ard58]

Lets try again.

[CentralMePistol]

Originally Posted by ard58

I get emails from CW and got this one yesterday. If it's true?! What's this country coming to? Are there any members from Statesville NC? Is this real?

This is about our Veterans, Military, and the men and women that have sacrificed for this great Country. The City of Statesville, North Carolina has filed a lawsuit seeking an injunction to require Gander RV in Statesville to take down their American Flag. They are imposing a $50/day fine retroactive to 10/15/18. Many cities like Statesville have requested that Camping World and Gander Outdoors take down their American Flags. WE WON'T DO IT!

It is real... I found it on several news sites.
However, its not about the flag itself. Its about the size... The flag here is simply massive! They city actually has an ordinance about the size of any flag. (You can agree or disagree with that... is what it is from where I sit currently)
Additionally, the city granted them an exemption from that ordinance to allow them to have an even larger flag. But, the company went even bigger than the exemption allowed.

So; yes its real. But, there is more to the story. And probably even more than is being reported. My summary, two people- likely one for the city and one for the company- have gotten into a pissing match.

*BTW- your quoted text is in white and can't be seen. I fixed it in my reply so people can see what you had written.

[rockfordroo]

First, the flag should be properly sized for the pole.

https://www.grandnewflag.com/flag-sizing-chart/

Second, it should meet any local size regulations.

Many of these places put up flags that are WAY too big for the pole. Usually car dealers, RV dealers, and "outdoor stores."

I understand something to catch the eye, but it really seems to be a "my (you-know-what) is bigger than your (you-know-what)" kind of thing.

[david_reaves]

This type of complaint always kills me... people say, "we won't tolerate that disrespect for the flag" Then wear the flag as hot pants, use flag napkins, on and on and on. The American flag is plastered on shirts, bikinis, socks, election campaign merchandise, and party favors like napkins and plates, signs and banners. Very few of the complainers have ever read the flag code:

US Code, Title 36, Chapter 10 "Patriotic Customs"

Paragraph 176, Respect for Flag

[the relevant sections start at sub paragraph d]

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.

(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

[DreiHunde]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

First, the flag should be properly sized for the pole.

https://www.grandnewflag.com/flag-sizing-chart/

Second, it should meet any local size regulations.

Many of these places put up flags that are WAY too big for the pole. Usually car dealers, RV dealers, and "outdoor stores."

I understand something to catch the eye, but it really seems to be a "my (you-know-what) is bigger than your (you-know-what)" kind of thing.

Good info in that link thanks!
I thought this was interesting:
"When flying 1 flag on a single flagpole the length of the flag should be at least one quarter the height of the pole. For example, a 40-foot pole requires a 6'x10' flag."

Camping World states they are flying a 40' x 80' flag. So that means a 320' flag pole!
Here is a pic from the Colfax, NC store.....I don't know how tall the pole is but it is definitely up there!

[gbaldwin]

Like many political rants/issue/complaints, knowing the entire story makes all the difference in the world. Partial reporting = Fake News

[ard58]

First off----thanks CentralMePistol. I didn't know what happened to the comment. And thanks for being a modern day Paul Harvey, and informing me of "the rest of the story".
Secondly, I didn't mean for this to get such a response like from davie_reaves. No offense but this forum has rules.

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by gbaldwin

Like many political rants/issue/complaints, knowing the entire story makes all the difference in the world. Partial reporting = Fake News

Yep. I see this constantly. It takes all of 30 seconds of research to find out the entire story and whether it's even true or not. Instead it gets cut down to 2 sentences, leaving out most of the pertinent information and suddenly people are "outraged".

FWIW, we have a Gander Outdoors near our house and they also have a gigantic flag outside their store. I've always assumed they were competing with the car dealership that's right down the road that also has a gigantic flag.

[timfromma]

It's just a piece of cloth people. There are MANY more pressing issues to direct your anger towards. How about health care, school safety, homelessness, disease, terrorism, human trafficking, crime...just to name a few.

[Indy500]

Dont know how I feel about this

[Flybob]

MODERATORS NOTE
As you may have noticed, the hot topic button has been turned on for this thread. This is topic is a very sensitive and emotional topic for many members and as such has the potential to generate strong emotional responses on both sides. These emotional responses do not resolve any issues but rather cause a disruption of the overall goal of FRF. Please consider your response before hitting submit. If it is likely to generate a emotional reply simply delete it and move on. If the thread becomes disruptive it will be closed.
Thank You

[5picker]

Originally Posted by Indy500

Dont know how I feel about this

Who told them and what flags?

[A32Deuce]

The problem is the size of the flags not the flags. They keep going bigger then the town permits.

[Indy500]

Originally Posted by timfromma

It's just a piece of cloth people. There are MANY more pressing issues to direct your anger towards. How about health care, school safety, homelessness, disease, terrorism, human trafficking, crime...just to name a few.

I usually don't get involved , but it's not just a piece of cloth. It is so much more . That's my 2 cents

[david_reaves]

Ard58,

Sorry for any misunderstanding-- my complaint was not with you, but with the people that jump on the bandwagon about flag disrespect because someone [the particular Camping World/Gander the story mentions] is told they are breaking the rules. My point is only that a lot of people frequently complain when their sensibilities are offended, but they are [probably unknowingly] offering the same type, or more, disrespect.

No flame intended

[DNA Dan]

My take is "rules are rules and laws are laws". If you don't like them, then you have your say with your vote. As long as the state's laws don't contradict Federal law, then it's perfectly legal within the state's jurisdiction. I personally prefer to live where I am around "like-minded" people.

[GL1800Rider]

The problem here lies with CW/Gander violating a size ordinance, not the flag itself that many died for. Same would apply if it was a huge Gander Outdoors flag. As a business they are required to abide by the rules even though, myself included, they may not agree with them. One of the reasons I live on 4 acres and no HOA.

Our local Ford dealer has had a huge American flag that can be seen for miles if you are on top of a hill (remember, I live in Florida so that is about 100 feet above sea level) and the community loves it. Been there for at least 35 years.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by david_reaves

This type of complaint always kills me... people say, "we won't tolerate that disrespect for the flag" Then wear the flag as hot pants, use flag napkins, on and on and on. The American flag is plastered on shirts, bikinis, socks, election campaign merchandise, and party favors like napkins and plates, signs and banners. Very few of the complainers have ever read the flag code:

US Code, Title 36, Chapter 10 "Patriotic Customs"

Paragraph 176, Respect for Flag

[the relevant sections start at sub paragraph d]

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.

(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

You do understand that this is referring to actual, physical, real flags, right? Not depictions or designs of the flag put on paper, clothing, etc.


Meaning don't take a real flag and turn it into clothes, a tablecloth, napkins, etc.


It is NOT saying you cannot put depictions of the flag onto items. That is not a violation of the flag code.

[BandJCarm]

I definitely replied to their email.