Kansas wants my SS number!

[Sunseeker16]

I guess for me it boils down to having dealt with identity theft makes me a bit jumpy when somebody asks for information that I think is BS. Identity theft is a big deal and it ain't fun to deal with.

[Falcon900Guy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dan

I’ve about given up on Oklahoma and Texas state parks because of other issues but they’ve never asked me for my SS number. Yes, it seems like a one-of-a-kind interpretation of the federal law. We use COE parks almost exclusively now.

Mr. Dan,

Understand about OK, their reservations system is horrible.

Not sure why you have about given up on Texas State Parks. We stay at many that are close to the DFW metroplex and have found them all super parks. No, the do not have sewer, not a big deal. They all have dump stations tho. It doesn't affect us as we usually just stay the weekends.
Yes, you do have to be on the ball as they open reservations 5 months ahead but if you plan ahead, it usually is no problem. We have found that if you search a couple of parks, someone seems like they always cancel last minute.
Sorry you have a problem since3 you live in Texas.
Plan five months out and enjoy the fun!!
Happy Camping!!!

[Mr. Dan]

Originally Posted by Falcon900Guy

Mr. Dan,

Understand about OK, their reservations system is horrible.

Not sure why you have about given up on Texas State Parks. We stay at many that are close to the DFW metroplex and have found them all super parks. No, the do not have sewer, not a big deal. They all have dump stations tho. It doesn't affect us as we usually just stay the weekends.
Yes, you do have to be on the ball as they open reservations 5 months ahead but if you plan ahead, it usually is no problem. We have found that if you search a couple of parks, someone seems like they always cancel last minute.
Sorry you have a problem since3 you live in Texas.
Plan five months out and enjoy the fun!!
Happy Camping!!!

Obviously, our situations are different. I don’t have an issue reserving a site but we stay at a site the max 14 days (we spent 135 nights in the trailer in 2022). Yes, they do have sewer, at least the ones we’ve stayed in do -such as Eisenhower SP on Texoma. No sewer is a big deal for us although we’ve managed without. I don’t like to have to pay to come and go every day for 2 weeks. If my daughter and her family come to see us, it costs them $20 to get in. They don’t have to pay anything to visit us at COE parks.

[aceinspp]

Well I lived in Ks for 20 years and never had to furnish SS tell them to put it where the sun dosent shine. Later RJD

[NXR]

Federal law (Title 42 of the United States Code, Section 666 (a) (13)), requires ...

Section 666. Makes sense...

[NavyLCDR]

https://www.justice.gov/opcl/overvie...20-edition/ssn

(a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual’s refusal to disclose his social security account number.

[RickV]

Originally Posted by KyDan

We're planning a trip KY to Colorado and that means a stop in Kansas.
I found a state park near the interstate and logged into my reserveamerica account and proceeded to reserve a site.
Got all the way thru to the click here to pay and a window popped up saying it needed this "missing information". It wanted my birthday and whether I'm a US citizen and it wanted my full social security number!!
I thought "that can't be right". We've visited 46 out of the 50 states and I can't remember having to give up that much personal information ever.
I online chatted with someone at reserve america and they didn't think I'd have to give my SS number but then I found this--
https://ksoutdoors.com/License-Permi...ecurity-Number on the Kansas parks website.

We're still going to Colorado and we're still driving through Kansas but we won't be staying in a Kansas state park!!

There is a KOA Journey in Goodland, Ks that is easy access just off I-70 that we spent the night at two years ago while heading up to Frisco, Co. If I remember it was all pull through sites too.

[ajlight]

Originally Posted by Sunseeker16

Kansas really likes to suck everything out of you. To stay in a state park they charge a daily fee for a mortorized vehicle. The motorhome is motorized so there is a daily fee even though I drive it in and park itand never move it. There is a daily fee forf my toad along with the campsite fee. If the guy next to me tows his trailer into the site there is anly a daily fee for the tow vehicle along with the site fee. Then there are other fees like boating, trail fees etc. A little out of hand in my opinion.

I live in Kansas and they are sucking all the money out of us! It will be interesting to see if other states pick up on this.

[jimmarako]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

https://www.justice.gov/opcl/overvie...20-edition/ssn

In your link further down the page if I read this right Kansas is OK here:

A key statute that requires the disclosure of social security numbers is the Social Security Act (SSA), which expressly permits a state agency to use social security numbers for the purpose of identifying individuals “in the administration of any tax, general public assistance, driver’s license, or motor vehicle registration law within its jurisdiction,” see 42 U.S.C. § 405(c)(2)(C)(i) (2018). The SSA also permits a state agency to use social security numbers to issue birth certificates and to enforce child support orders, the Secretary of Agriculture to use social security numbers in administering the Food and Nutrition Act of 2008, and the Federal Crop Insurance Corporation to use them in administering the Federal Crop Insurance Act. See 42 U.S.C. §§ 405(c)(2)(C)(i), (ii), (iii), (iv).

[curtiscapk]

Originally Posted by ajlight

I live in Kansas and they are sucking all the money out of us! It will be interesting to see if other states pick up on this.

Howdy neighbor! Ever go to Hillsdale?

[PhilFromMaine]

Originally Posted by jimmarako

In your link further down the page if I read this right Kansas is OK here:

A key statute that requires the disclosure of social security numbers is the Social Security Act (SSA), which expressly permits a state agency to use social security numbers for the purpose of identifying individuals “in the administration of any tax, general public assistance, driver’s license, or motor vehicle registration law within its jurisdiction,” see 42 U.S.C. § 405(c)(2)(C)(i) (2018). The SSA also permits a state agency to use social security numbers to issue birth certificates and to enforce child support orders, the Secretary of Agriculture to use social security numbers in administering the Food and Nutrition Act of 2008, and the Federal Crop Insurance Corporation to use them in administering the Federal Crop Insurance Act. See 42 U.S.C. §§ 405(c)(2)(C)(i), (ii), (iii), (iv).

"It permits a State to use SS numbers to enforce child support orders". Obviously, this demand for SS numbers for camping in Kansas State Parks is being pushed by the State of Kansas, not the Federal Government. They are being tyrants IMO.

[Rhumblefish]

Originally Posted by RickV

There is a KOA Journey in Goodland, Ks that is easy access just off I-70 that we spent the night at two years ago while heading up to Frisco, Co. If I remember it was all pull through sites too.

I've been in that KOA several times. It's a whistle stop for us heading to Colorado.

Not much in Goodland, but make sure to see the world's largest easel.

[Rhumblefish]

Those of you bothered by KS stance, would you feel the same way if they asked you for a Drivers' License number? (and perhaps charged their fee structures to in order to support the administration for DL# to SS# lookups).

A government agency is asking for a government issued identification sequence in order to enforce the law, arguably to backstop rampant non-compliant behavior that has a significant impact on others. Nonpayment is "criminal nonsupport" (a misdemeanor), but a year of noncompliance with this kind of court order becomes a felony. Leave out the legal aspect, a significant amount of women and kids are suffering financially (and often in no small way) because some men do not pay their court mandated child support.

It's one thing to not WANT to share your SS#, and it's another thing to REFUSE to provide it to an agency entitled (mandated?) to collect it, but to claim Tyranny? "cruel and oppressive government or rule/cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control?"

I think our definitions of tyranny are different.

[Cabinfever97]

PA uses state park reservations to check for arrest warrants. Two years ago we were staying at Gifford Pinchot state park. When we pulled in there were 3 state police cars at a site. The people there were not even completely set up. Later I asked the camp host what was going on. He said the person who rented the site had an arrest warrant for something. The host commented it happens a few times a year.

[PhilFromMaine]

Originally Posted by Rhumblefish

Those of you bothered by KS stance, would you feel the same way if they asked you for a Drivers' License number? (and perhaps charged their fee structures to in order to support the administration for DL# to SS# lookups).

A government agency is asking for a government issued identification sequence in order to enforce the law, arguably to backstop rampant non-compliant behavior that has a significant impact on others. Nonpayment is "criminal nonsupport" (a misdemeanor), but a year of noncompliance with this kind of court order becomes a felony. Leave out the legal aspect, a significant amount of women and kids are suffering financially (and often in no small way) because some men do not pay their court mandated child support.

It's one thing to not WANT to share your SS#, and it's another thing to REFUSE to provide it to an agency entitled (mandated?) to collect it, but to claim Tyranny? "cruel and oppressive government or rule/cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control?"

lol. Okay.

If you look at any government anti-identity theft document, they will tell you to not give out your SS# except for legitimate SS purposes. Catching mostly poor people, who in most cases just don't have the money to pay child support, is not a legitimate reason to give up critical financial identifiers to random people at a State Campground.

Most campgrounds want to see a drivers license and that is okay. With a driver's license any government entity can run your name for criminal warrants. There is absolutely no compelling reason to ask for a SS#.

[PhilFromMaine]

Originally Posted by PhilFromMaine

If you look at any government anti-identity theft document, they will tell you to not give out your SS# except for legitimate SS purposes. Catching mostly poor people, who in most cases just don't have the money to pay child support, is not a legitimate reason to give up critical financial identifiers to random people at a State Campground.

Most campgrounds want to see a drivers license and that is okay. With a driver's license any government entity can run your name for criminal warrants. There is absolutely no compelling reason to ask for a SS#.

Edit: Actually, I think some smart bureaucrat has figured out a way to deal with over crowding at Kansas State Parks.

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by jimmarako

In your link further down the page if I read this right Kansas is OK here:

A key statute that requires the disclosure of social security numbers is the Social Security Act (SSA), which expressly permits a state agency to use social security numbers for the purpose of identifying individuals “in the administration of any tax, general public assistance, driver’s license, or motor vehicle registration law within its jurisdiction,” see 42 U.S.C. § 405(c)(2)(C)(i) (2018). The SSA also permits a state agency to use social security numbers to issue birth certificates and to enforce child support orders, the Secretary of Agriculture to use social security numbers in administering the Food and Nutrition Act of 2008, and the Federal Crop Insurance Corporation to use them in administering the Federal Crop Insurance Act. See 42 U.S.C. §§ 405(c)(2)(C)(i), (ii), (iii), (iv).

How is Kansas going to enforce a child support order issued from another state upon a resident of that same other state? Unless there is an arrest warrant, which would mean Kansas is really preforming a de facto background check for outstanding arrest warrants. I am thinking that Kansas is on very shaky legal ground here by requiring non-Kansas residents to furnish SSNs. But, again, not much any of us can do about it. Spend tens of thousands of dollars to file a lawsuit to get into a $50 camping spot.

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by Rhumblefish

Those of you bothered by KS stance, would you feel the same way if they asked you for a Drivers' License number? (and perhaps charged their fee structures to in order to support the administration for DL# to SS# lookups).

A government agency is asking for a government issued identification sequence in order to enforce the law, arguably to backstop rampant non-compliant behavior that has a significant impact on others. Nonpayment is "criminal nonsupport" (a misdemeanor), but a year of noncompliance with this kind of court order becomes a felony. Leave out the legal aspect, a significant amount of women and kids are suffering financially (and often in no small way) because some men do not pay their court mandated child support.

It's one thing to not WANT to share your SS#, and it's another thing to REFUSE to provide it to an agency entitled (mandated?) to collect it, but to claim Tyranny? "cruel and oppressive government or rule/cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control?"

I think our definitions of tyranny are different.

And the whole "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause" phrases go completely down the RV dump station.

[KyDan]

Please- I meant no offense to anyone who lives in or loves Kansas!
I had my heart set on a state park and so the saga began.
Once I got over that- I found stops on the east side of Colorado and just into Missouri at Odessa.
These stops are actually better for me. Previously by stopping in Lawrence KS I wound up with a killer last leg of 570 miles.
By making my last stop in Odessa MO my last leg is a little more reasonable
493 miles.

[Rhumblefish]

Originally Posted by PhilFromMaine

Edit: Actually, I think some smart bureaucrat has figured out a way to deal with over crowding at Kansas State Parks.

lol - feature not a bug?