Letter from an attorney

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by Oakman

That fact is most people want a high quality built trailer at a low budget price. It doesn't exist and never will. If all these folks complaining about quality really wanted a trailer built to last then why aren't they buying Airstream trailers? I know why, they don't want to pay the price for quality.

BTW, that itty bitty Airstream basecamp in your link was on sale at the RV show we attended this year for a mere $40,000. There wasn't a line to buy them.

Even Airstream has problems. Social Knowledge (our parent company of FRF) also has an Airstream forum. If on the full site here, just scroll to the bottom of any page (even this one) and click on the "RV and travel Trailer" communities. Now you can go to the much smaller Airstream forums and see that they too have problems.

It's industry wide, and not just pertaining to one Company. Some may have more than others, but there is no perfect answer...yet.

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by 325BH

So... nobody should punish a company for fear of them raising their prices. Got it.

No. The only thing you can do to "punish" a company is refuse to buy their product.

My point is, if you think change can come to the industry via some sort of outside force (like lawsuits, petitions, etc), you are mistaken. Just as you cannot legislate morality, you cannot adjucate a company into providing something the public don't want.

It is clear that the super-majority of RV purchasers are happy with the quality/price point of their units, or else they would not be purchasers. The industry has taken the stance (maybe callously) that "Good enough is good enough". And ONLY when people stop buying "Good enough" will that change.

Tim

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by Oakman

That fact is most people want a high quality built trailer at a low budget price. It doesn't exist and never will. If all these folks complaining about quality really wanted a trailer built to last then why aren't they buying Airstream trailers? I know why, they don't want to pay the price for quality.

BTW, that itty bitty Airstream basecamp in your link was on sale at the RV show we attended this year for a mere $40,000. There wasn't a line to buy them.

I would settle for just installing the budget priced components correctly, tightening or not stripping screws or using an acceptable amount of them, and blowing staples into something other than air for starters. Water tanks that do not fall out would also be nice along with welds on frames that were not done by a preschool class, along with roofs and other areas that do not leak from the get go?

I have bought more than a few "budget" priced guitars. Chinese made Epiphones (Gibson) and Mexican or Chinese made Fenders. None have fell apart or came already falling apart. Actually most are quite playable with some even surpassing my American made Fenders and Gibsons.

I had a 2013 stripped down budget work truck model 2500HD. It was just as dependable as my 2015 GMC 2500HD with the bells and whistles and did not fall apart.

The RV Industry is the only place I can think of where consumers get handed this bag of goods, and then it is defended because it's budget priced.

[Oakman]

Originally Posted by wmtire

Even Airstream has problems. Social Knowledge (our parent company of FRF) also has an Airstream forum. If on the full site here, just scroll to the bottom of any page (even this one) and click on the "RV and travel Trailer" communities. Now you can go to the much smaller Airstream forums and see that they too have problems.

It's industry wide, and not just pertaining to one Company. Some may have more than others, but there is no perfect answer...yet.

I wasn’t implying that Airstreams are perfect. All RVs are made by hand and humans make mistakes. But those mistakes are few and far between with Airstream. Also if you look at the repairs folks are talking about on the Airstream forum many are on units older than 15 years and in some cases 30 years. How many 20 year old Forest River products are still on the road and being used?

I'm just saying that in most cases, not all, you get what you pay for.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by Oakman

I wasn’t implying that Airstreams are perfect. All RVs are made by hand and humans make mistakes. But those mistakes are few and far between with Airstream. Also if you look at the repairs folks are talking about on the Airstream forum many are on units older than 15 years and in some cases 30 years. How many 20 year old Forest River products are still on the road and being used?

I'm just saying that in most cases, not all, you get what you pay for.

X2! I think my FR product has a life span of 5 to 10 years. The plan now is to get rid of it at around 8 before I have to start replacing major items like roof and suspension

[Flybob]

The managers of these companies are accountable to the Board of Directors and the stock holders. It is hard for them to justify spending additional labor dollars to slow down production and double check the work when they can't build them fast enough to meet the demand. I am not condoning the poor workmanship, but the consumers are voting with their dollars and they continue to support the business. Just do a quick search for all the " I can't wait for my new RV I ordered today" threads.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by Oakman

I wasn’t implying that Airstreams are perfect. All RVs are made by hand and humans make mistakes. But those mistakes are few and far between with Airstream. Also if you look at the repairs folks are talking about on the Airstream forum many are on units older than 15 years and in some cases 30 years. How many 20 year old Forest River products are still on the road and being used?

I'm just saying that in most cases, not all, you get what you pay for.

I understand that and can agree.

But to be fair, FR has only been around since 1996, so it's barely over 20 years old.

It would be interesting to know how many of their original RV's are still operational.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by wmtire

I understand that and can agree.

But to be fair, FR has only been around since 1996, so it's barely over 20 years old.

It would be interesting to know how many of their original RV's are still operational.

I think that's the exact question Oakman was asking

[KatanaPilot]

My $16,000 Honda Fit Toad is put together just as well as my wife's $60,000 Acura. The Fit doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the Acura, doesn't ride as well or sit as comfortably but I expect it will last just as long.

As a first time buyer, I had no clue as to how well (or not) these motorhomes were made, knew little to nothing about component quality and absolutely no idea about dealers refusing warranty work if you didn't buy from them. That particular policy chaps me the most and is one that could be remedied by the manufacturers.

I know now and won't make the same mistake twice. Hopefully, others will come to these forums before they buy and at least go in with their eyes open.

[mjones12]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

I would settle for just installing the budget priced components correctly, tightening or not stripping screws or using an acceptable amount of them, and blowing staples into something other than air for starters. Water tanks that do not fall out would also be nice along with welds on frames that were not done by a preschool class, along with roofs and other areas that do not leak from the get go?

I have bought more than a few "budget" priced guitars. Chinese made Epiphones (Gibson) and Mexican or Chinese made Fenders. None have fell apart or came already falling apart. Actually most are quite playable with some even surpassing my American made Fenders and Gibsons.

I had a 2013 stripped down budget work truck model 2500HD. It was just as dependable as my 2015 GMC 2500HD with the bells and whistles and did not fall apart.

The RV Industry is the only place I can think of where consumers get handed this bag of goods, and then it is defended because it's budget priced.

Good points.

[Delco Bobby]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

I would settle for just installing the budget priced components correctly, tightening or not stripping screws or using an acceptable amount of them, and blowing staples into something other than air for starters. Water tanks that do not fall out would also be nice along with welds on frames that were not done by a preschool class, along with roofs and other areas that do not leak from the get go?

I have bought more than a few "budget" priced guitars. Chinese made Epiphones (Gibson) and Mexican or Chinese made Fenders. None have fell apart or came already falling apart. Actually most are quite playable with some even surpassing my American made Fenders and Gibsons.

I had a 2013 stripped down budget work truck model 2500HD. It was just as dependable as my 2015 GMC 2500HD with the bells and whistles and did not fall apart.

The RV Industry is the only place I can think of where consumers get handed this bag of goods, and then it is defended because it's budget priced.

Right on.

[BusyRetirees]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

Class action=Lawyers make TONS of money, claimants get a $12.00 discount coupon.

Screw that.

Tim

Couldn't agree with you more though I question the high value of the discount coupon.

[oldwrench]

Originally Posted by davidg

yesterday, i get a letter from a (legitimate) law firm in southeast louisiana. No one wants to get a letter from a lawyer right? So, i tear it open and start reading.....hmm.....they are fishing for participants to join in a class action suit against forest river. They ask questions about how long has your rv been in the shop during the warranty period.

I'll not be responding, but found the letter very interesting. I've read a few heartbreaking stories on here from folks who would probably jump right in. Anyway,..

strange i have been thinking about this. All forrest river owners that have a unresolved problems should ban together and seek legal advice, at least get their attention, and do something about their quality control , it is a shame to spend our hard earned money expecting a quality product and not getting it. These units are built then sent to a dealer and let them handle the quality issues , and they don't really care just give me the money. Only one way to get their attention, legal or don't buy their products. I don't want their money just take care of what you built and stand behind your warranty

[bclemens]

old wrench, That's not a fair statement. I have reached out to you twice. My service manager has reached out, all you have to do is tell us when and where you'd like any remaining issues addressed. It sounds to me like you've had our attention all along.

I would be happy to have you post pictures of your issues on the Dynamax sub-forum (or here if you'd like) and we can work to resolve them right here in a public forum, let everyone be the jury as to whether or not we stood behind our warranty. Your unit was in for service, we authorized the dealer to make the repairs, we denied zero claims. You reached out to me about this and that the dealer had the unit for 2 months, but by time you reached out you were already in possession of your unit.

You did not like the recliner releases being on the outside of the chair, so I sent the blueprints for the recliners and authorized the dealer to do whatever he needed to do to relocate them. We authorized a mattress replacement and I didn't even see a picture of what was wrong with the mattress. You say there are issues with the seats, but I have not seen a picture of those seats so that I can determine a course of action.

The primary hold up seems to have been the seam tape above your bed. We did in fact send the wrong color at least twice. The 3rd time was the right color, but as I explained, these are done like carpet in dye lots, so it may not ever be a perfect match. My service manager also offered to send a head board if you weren't happy with the match.

We're trying to stand behind our warranty...but we still need a little help from you so that we can make that happen.

I am here every day, giving my attention, after business hours, weekends, holidays, vacation. Just post some pictures of what you need corrected.

[rockfordroo]

Some people would complain if you hung them with a new rope!

[325BH]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Some people would complain if you hung them with a new rope!

Are you implying that there are no legitimate beefs with the RV industry?

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by 325BH

Are you implying that there are no legitimate beefs with the RV industry?

I'm not. But I do get so tired of reading the Negative Nellies NonStop BeeBop about how their sky is falling. Often it is, and I feel for those guys. Mine has fallen probably more than anyone's, but it's getting fixed.

What I find almost humorous (and bless the pygmies in New Guinea and forgive me for laughing) is those that whine and cry and bemoan how the manufacturer NEVER stands by their warranty..........and then you find out the other shoe drops and they really have been, all along. But if you just read the horror stories, and not the other side, you think the entire industry is so bad that everyone should be happy to line up and sue them.

Balderdash and Poppycock. Problems exist. I'll tell you what I'll do. You tell me every problem you have had with your unit in the first year, and I'll match you......probably two for one.....and I'll also bet mine are more major. Now, I'd LOSE that bet with SOME folks here, I would. Some have had true horror stories.

But others are just vague and complain about the RV industry not being perfect.

I spent about 3 hours yesterday on the phone with some folks who are having one of the same issues I am.........and it's very rare, best I can tell.....and really pretty easily fixable with the right part. Yet they thought because they found out I had their same issue, that the issue was prevalent throughout and "We think there's way more of these than they are letting on" was said. Why do they think that? I have no clue! I have now found a total of two cases, period.

I want to camp. I like to travel, and I like to camp. I enjoy it. I have had MAJOR issues, some safety. But so far (not done yet, I'll report when it's all said and done) the manufacturer has stepped up and fixed it all, and others with the same unit are flabbergasted I'm having so many problems. So, it's not ubiquitous, not so prevalent, it's just annoying.

I've said repeatedly that I WISH my unit, and yours, and theirs, was as perfect as my vehicle (which is also in the shop, and they are so backed up they can't get to it for an unknown time, and I'm going to get it tomorrow regardless, I need it), which is not perfect and neither is yours. Or theirs. Or anyone's.

I am going to get my unit fixed, and it's going to last many years, and it's going to be a lot of fun to travel this country in.

And that's my last comment on this subject in this forum. Y'all can carry on and complain and wish for the impossible in one hand, and.....well, you know the rest.

[Wobbles]

Originally Posted by 325BH

Are you implying that there are no legitimate beefs with the RV industry?

We all know that there are beefs, legitimate ones too. I think Rockford was making light of someone with first hand knowledge calling out someone else. In this case it sounds like a one sided story that just got responded too.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Some people would complain if you hung them with a new rope!

Originally Posted by 325BH

Are you implying that there are no legitimate beefs with the RV industry?

I was responding to bclemens response to old wrench. He's apparently been trying to resolve old wrench's problems for some time now, but all we hear from old wrench is how lousy he's been treated. He's never said one word about bclemens efforts to help him. So I think old wrench would complain if hung with a new rope.

[oldwrench]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

I was responding to bclemens response to old wrench. He's apparently been trying to resolve old wrench's problems for some time now, but all we hear from old wrench is how lousy he's been treated. He's never said one word about bclemens efforts to help him. So I think old wrench would complain if hung with a new rope.

this is my last post, this not the place to handle problems when people don't know what is going on. this forums is the only way to get to bcl. i have spoken to others at F/R , have only been called back one time. as i have said i will repair myself. a 140,000.00 problem i don't need. enjoy your r/v hope you have no problems. p/s please use a new rope. bye