My new bicycle for getting around my boondocking sites

[gastan]

Originally Posted by babock

You have unlimited range.... your legs.

All kidding aside. If you think using your legs charging the battery gives you unlimited range, that means you don't need a battery and electric motor in the first place.

Of course everyone has unlimited range if they just get up off their butts and start walking.

In my statement "unlimited range" translates to battery power, which I thought was rather obvious. Producing "juice" for the battery while pedaling (without the power assist) means always having power for those long grinds uphill when you need it/want it without running out of power because the battery has run down. In this context, "unlimited power" means never having to plug the d*mn thing into a power source, which I also thought was obvious.

[babock]

The battery power that you are putting into your battery isn't free. It takes energy from you. In fact, you will have to expend likely three times the power to what you eventually get out of it. You will actually get WAY more range never charging this battery with your own legs. Of course this is the whole reason the bikes don't have this so called "feature". You would basically be riding up hill the whole time you are charging your battery.

No such thing as perpetual motion machines.

Originally Posted by gastan

Of course everyone has unlimited range if they just get up off their butts and start walking.

In my statement "unlimited range" translates to battery power, which I thought was rather obvious. Producing "juice" for the battery while pedaling (without the power assist) means always having power for those long grinds uphill when you need it/want it without running out of power because the battery has run down. In this context, "unlimited power" means never having to plug the d*mn thing into a power source, which I also thought was obvious.

[tbarb]

A little off subject maybe but just got one of these for the DW. I still ride a conventional off-road. We have a two bike tray type carrier for the back of the 5th wheel. I am now shopping for a two bike cover and wonder what you all are doing. Any suggestions for what is working for covers?

[rock70]

We carry full size folding bikes made by Montague when we travel. They ride as well as any hardtail bike I have ever owned

[SilhouettePenny]

Originally Posted by tbarb

I am now shopping for a two bike cover and wonder what you all are doing. Any suggestions for what is working for covers?

We use one motorcycle cover to protect both bikes on the back of our 5th wheel.

[gastan]

Interesting timing.
"Interior Department moves to allow electric bikes in national parks, public lands"


https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/inte...null_icymi_hed

[babock]

The picture in that article is where I mountain bike all the time in Big Bear Lake. We have a vacation house there. US Forrest service trail that currently does not allow E-bikes. Hopefully stays that way and it looks that way based on the article.

The National Park Service announced Friday that low-speed electric bicycles will be allowed on park roads, paved or hardened trails, and areas designated for off-road vehicles

Since most trails that mountain bikes currently ride on are not designated for off-road vehicles, e-bikes still won't be allowed on them.


My guess is this will go no where and won't be implemented at all but we will see.

Originally Posted by gastan

Interesting timing.
"Interior Department moves to allow electric bikes in national parks, public lands"


https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/inte...null_icymi_hed

[gastan]

Originally Posted by babock

The picture in that article is where I mountain bike all the time in Big Bear Lake.

Funny. The caption for the photo says,
"In this June 8, 2019 file photo, Janice Goodwin stands by her electric-assist bicycle at a gate near the start of the carriage path system where bikes such as her are banned inside Acadia National Park, in this photo June 8, 2018."
I did not know that they moved Acadia National Park to California. Huh.!

Originally Posted by babock

Since most trails that mountain bikes currently ride on are not designated for off-road vehicles, e-bikes still won't be allowed on them.

"A new memo from the Department of Interior, which oversees the National Park Service and other federal lands, says that bicycles that include a motor that either propels the bicycle or assists a rider with pedaling up to 20 miles per hour should be allowed on trails or in areas where traditional bicycles are allowed."

Originally Posted by babock

My guess is this will go no where and won't be implemented at all but we will see.

"The National Park Service announced Friday that low-speed electric bicycles will be allowed on park roads, paved or hardened trails, and areas designated for off-road vehicles."

"Park superintendents have a month to create rules and guidance for the use of e-bikes in specific parks over the next month and can block use in certain areas to protect resources."

[babock]

Originally Posted by gastan

Funny. The caption for the photo says,
"In this June 8, 2019 file photo, Janice Goodwin stands by her electric-assist bicycle at a gate near the start of the carriage path system where bikes such as her are banned inside Acadia National Park, in this photo June 8, 2018."
I did not know that they moved Acadia National Park to California. Huh.!

I guess you missed this picture from the article which was the next picture. Caption says the following:

In this photo taken Sept. 23, 2018, a mountain biker pedals past a No E-bikes sign in the San Bernardino National Forest near Big Bear Lake, Calif.

BTW..this trail is solely on USFS land! It was put in by volunteers a couple years ago and one of the USFS requirements was that no motorized vehicles could use it and that included E-Bikes.



https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/367916/skyline-trail

[babock]

Originally Posted by gastan

"The National Park Service announced Friday that low-speed electric bicycles will be allowed on park roads, paved or hardened trails, and areas designated for off-road vehicles."

You apparently read it completely different than me which is not surprising. Currently, off-road vehicles are not allowed on trails that support hikers, mountain bikes and horses. E-bikes won't be allowed on those trails since these trails are NOT DESIGNATED FOR OFF_ROAD VEHICLES.


They may be allowed on paved or DG type bike paths but they won't end up on trails....thankfully.

[gastan]

Originally Posted by babock

I guess you missed this picture from the article which was the next picture.

I did and for that I apologize. We both "missed" a picture.

Originally Posted by babock

BTW..this trail is solely on USFS land! It was put in by volunteers a couple years ago and one of the USFS requirements was that no motorized vehicles could use it and that included E-Bikes.

Things change. Rules change. Everyone on this board is old enough to realize that. I don't care how it used to be. The NEW guidelines? See the article or my post above. The rule change effects National Parks and "other public lands".

"Other public lands", by definition, would mean land controlled by the government that is open to the public.

By the way - - it is the Dept. of Interior that came out with this memo (see article). The Dept. of Interior OVERSEES (and sets policy and guidelines for) both the National Park Service and the US Forest Service.

Of course some trails deemed sensitive could be omitted from the new guidelines and your favorites may be included. However, the article specifically mentions that low speed e-bikes "...should be allowed on trails or in areas where traditional bicycles are allowed. " I do not believe that a trail could be deemed "sensitive" if regular bikes are allowed on it.

Originally Posted by babock

You apparently read it completely different than me which is not surprising.

I agree. One of us is reading comprehension challanged. I'll try to be more understanding in the future.

[spower]

Back on subject.....how do you lock these bikes up if you are out somewhere? Just the usual bike locks?

[Iwannacamp]

First granddaughter ride...

[babock]

Originally Posted by gastan

By the way - - it is the Dept. of Interior that came out with this memo (see article). The Dept. of Interior OVERSEES (and sets policy and guidelines for) both the National Park Service and the US Forest Service.

Actually, the US Forest service is not part of the Dept of the Interior. It is part of the Dept of Agriculture. We will see if the USFS is even affected by this

[JLeising]

Originally Posted by babock

The battery power that you are putting into your battery isn't free. It takes energy from you. In fact, you will have to expend likely three times the power to what you eventually get out of it. You will actually get WAY more range never charging this battery with your own legs. Of course this is the whole reason the bikes don't have this so called "feature". You would basically be riding up hill the whole time you are charging.

Benefit would be power generation while braking - either stopping or controlling speed going downhill. The issue, as I understand it, is as someone stated above - regeneration only currently works with a direct drive motor. Geared hub or crank motors use a freewheel assembly to avoid excessively slowing the bike with a geared up motor while coasting. A direct drive motor without a freewheel also adds load, and isn’t as effective propelling the bike as a geared motor.

Seems like a two motor system - a geared motor with a freewheel for propelling the bike and a direct drive motor with an intelligent total disengage clutch, engaged only for regeneration while braking, might work.

Would somewhat reduce, but far from eliminate, the need to charge the battery. Prius uses braking regeneration- but still needs gas!

[babock]

Problem is that it would double the cost of the bike. I used to work on the GM EV1 and one my fellow engineers left to join the Currie Bricklin electric bike startup. They dismissed brake regen right away.

Originally Posted by JLeising

Benefit would be power generation while braking - either stopping or controlling speed going downhill. The issue, as I understand it, is as someone stated above - regeneration only currently works with a direct drive motor. Geared hub or crank motors use a freewheel assembly to avoid excessively slowing the bike with a geared up motor while coasting. A direct drive motor without a freewheel also adds load, and isn’t as effective propelling the bike as a geared motor.

Seems like a two motor system - a geared motor with a freewheel for propelling the bike and a direct drive motor with an intelligent total disengage clutch, engaged only for regeneration while braking, might work.

Would somewhat reduce, but far from eliminate, the need to charge the battery. Prius uses braking regeneration- but still needs gas!

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by roaddiva

Back on subject.....how do you lock these bikes up if you are out somewhere? Just the usual bike locks?

I carry a pair of coiled security cables with locks. The two both fit into my frame top mounted bag. I can secure front wheel and frame with one cable to a tree and the other cable can secure rear wheel and frame to each other. Battery and Seat are removable and go with me if I have to lock up the bike for any reason other than at home. This will be SOP when camping to secure bike at night. Just like my generator.

If the tree is particularly large in diameter I can remove front wheel and put cables end to end (Lock one end into locking end of other cable) to lock the front, rear wheel, and frame to the tree.

Around town most businesses that don't have a bike rack outside often allow people to bring their expensive bikes inside. Was at the bank yesterday an the teller told me that it's a daily event, parking a bike inside.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by babock

Problem is that it would double the cost of the bike. I used to work on the GM EV1 and one my fellow engineers left to join the Currie Bricklin electric bike startup. They dismissed brake regen right away.

Not just extra cost, but extra weight. Bike riders are very weight conscious, even to the point of worrying about how many grams some of the items they carry weight, right down to tire patches with pre-applied cement so they con't have to carry a small tube weighing maybe 5-6 grams.

(discovered this after suffering my first flat tire )

Added: Just found out that my state requires "Motor Driven cycles" to be equipped with a horn capable of being heard for at least 200 feet. So much for the old "bicycle bell"

https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.390

https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.540

[babock]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Not just extra cost, but extra weight. Bike riders are very weight conscious, even to the point of worrying about how many grams some of the items they carry weight, right down to tire patches with pre-applied cement so they con't have to carry a small tube weighing maybe 5-6 grams.

Those pre cemented patches suck. Stick with the ones with the cement. The cement is actually used to vulcanize the rubber...it really isn't cement. You sand the area, you apply the cement and let it get tacky before you put the patch on.


I carry a bike multitool, spare tube, patch kit, tire levers and CO2 inflator with a couple CO2 cartridges. You can carry all of this in a seat bag. If your wheels don't have quick release levers, you need something to take off the wheel.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Not just extra cost, but extra weight. Bike riders are very weight conscious, even to the point of worrying about how many grams some of the items they carry weight, right down to tire patches with pre-applied cement so they con't have to carry a small tube weighing maybe 5-6 grams.

They're lovingly referred to as "Weight Weenies".[emoji23]
I used to race in amateur mountain bike races, with my K2 XC full suspension race bike. I raced in the Clydesdale class. Once they all went to the US Cycling CAT system for races, I bailed.
US Cycling took the fun out MTB racing. I remember when beer was one of the prizes for podium finishers.[emoji22]