Pretty Disappointed in Forest River Coachmen

[davel1971]

your problems are no different than 99% of FR owners. Also, that is not a full time unit. You will either have to adapt, park where the weather is good, or upgrade to a unit designed for full time living.

[spock123]

When I pay for something that comes on my camper I expect it to work, I really don't care what someone else says unless they are going to pay for camper.


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[Bob Montgomery]

Originally Posted by davel1971

your problems are no different than 99% of FR owners. Also, that is not a full time unit. You will either have to adapt, park where the weather is good, or upgrade to a unit designed for full time living.

What they choose to live in is really their choice isn't it? How do you define a full time unit? Maybe the salesman should have tried to put them into what they needed instead of just closing another sale...

[mike.t]

Spock.Duh!

Bob. Guess it depends where your full timing.Seams like a "full time" RV might be more $. Better to close another sale that's worth more$ Just my opinion I would get a TT and a TV that way I wouldn't have to drive that thing around when I needed to go somewhere and the wife could go and I could stay in the trailer and watch DVDs

[B and B]

OP,

What were the rivets suppose to hold together?

[davel1971]

Originally Posted by Bob Montgomery

What they choose to live in is really their choice isn't it? How do you define a full time unit? Maybe the salesman should have tried to put them into what they needed instead of just closing another sale...

Of course it's their choice, but it seems like maybe it wasn't the best choice, or they wouldn't have made some of the comments. Any unit designed for full time living will be rated as such by the manufacturer. Most will have insulation values in the R30-45 range in ceiling and floors. Not a layer of foam or foil bubble wrap like cheaper units. If your going to live in it, you will want to be able to heat and cool it not only comfortable, but efficiently.

[mike.t]

Did the OP remind the salesman "remember we will be using it full time"? I guess they could have gotten the same piece of ? even if they got a "full timer". Unfortunate. The DVD player not playing while the wife is busy still chaps me raw. Could have phrased it better.

[jkot]

Originally Posted by mike.t

No DVD player while the wife shops?? Get over it.Go for a walk

First I don't just watch entertainment on DVD. I watch training videos of others who are giving presentation to give them feedback on how they can do better. It's part of my job, and I like to be time-efficient.

I also watch YouTube that has been downloaded on to USB or SD card. Its not "traditional" entertainment. Its "how-to" videos on a lot of topics including new technology that is coming down the road. And news that you cannot always get here in the US.

Going for a walk is fine, but I like to do that with the Mrs. not when she's shopping. We like to spend time together and I prefer to use my time apart to get things that I need to do for personal growth and profession while we are apart.

I should also say that I don't mind constructive criticism on any point(s) I've made, but snide remarks well send them to /dev/null. And if that doesn't make sense then google it. Or I'll say it to you another way: file in drawer number 13.

[jkot]

Many of you may know it and many may not. But HUD is stepping into this. They are trying to legislate laws to force RV manufactures to follow better standards as some people are living in their RV's full-time and consider it "home".

On the other side, I understand there is push back on HUD or HUD is vacillating on their position that RVs are not intended for full-time and HUD has no business getting involved.

HUD has stepped in due the the rise of tiny-houses. These tiny-house (which are actual full-time homes) do not follow HUD guidelines and they avoid HUD regulations by putting tires on these homes so they can be moved. Existing regulations as I understand say that if a dwelling is moveable it is not subject to regulations establised by HUD.

HUD is really after "tiny home" folks who they feel are abusing this privilege afforded to RVers. But may in the end mean full-time RVing is off.

We don't live in our RV full-time (as we don't live in an RV park). We vacation in our RV and roam -- not all those who wander are lost, we
just like it that way.

Originally Posted by sam2424

I came to the realization it does no good to complain. It's kind of like FR has brain washed us. We has excepted high prices and low quality (and actually a lot will actually defend it). I told FR after all my troubles on my 2015 $90,000 5th wheel if I had know of this site before I purchased unit, you wouldn't have found me within 500 feet of FR dealer. Now you watch, someone will get on here and defend and say something like this "All RV manufactures are just as bad", or "Drive up to Elkhart and they will fix it for you for free with a smile." I only spent $60,000 on my 3500 Silverado and I didn't have to spend 1/2 the first summer repairing things that failed to work or simply fell off. I also didn't have to drive to Flint Michigan to let them fix it for free and a smile. Now somebody will say "The RV industry is not like the car manufacture". It might have been at one time, but those inferior manufactures went out of business because people didn't put up with poor quality. So who's fault is it that we pay good money for junk? OURS!!!!! We make excuses and belittle the buyers who complain to the point the manufactures say to them selves "Hell we can get by with anything, so LET"S STICK IT TO YHEM"

[jkot]

Bravo. We all need to get that attitude.

I don't care what you charge me whether it's a dime or a dollar.

you sell me something, I have an expectation it's going to work otherwise raise the price, if you have to justify the expense of doing it right.

Don't pass on shoddy workmanship, claim its all good, in order to mass market your product and thus increase your profits.

Originally Posted by spock123

When I pay for something that comes on my camper I expect it to work, I really don't care what someone else says unless they are going to pay for camper.


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[jkot]

The side panels of the Coach were suppose to be held in place by these.
Of the 15 screws that were there, only the front one was actually in the panel. The rest were either missing or missed the mark of going into the panel.

It's a wonder the whole thing didn't fall off.

Originally Posted by B and B

OP,

What were the rivets suppose to hold together?

[mike.t]

You stated and I quote "
I got 21QB for full-time. Time to take to the curb.









I got 21QB for full-time.

[Bob Montgomery]

Originally Posted by davel1971

Of course it's their choice, but it seems like maybe it wasn't the best choice, or they wouldn't have made some of the comments. Any unit designed for full time living will be rated as such by the manufacturer. Most will have insulation values in the R30-45 range in ceiling and floors. Not a layer of foam or foil bubble wrap like cheaper units. If your going to live in it, you will want to be able to heat and cool it not only comfortable, but efficiently.

Can you give me some examples of affordable Class A or Class C motorhomes that would be more suitable for living in full time? Many of us cannot afford more than $100,000. I am serious because we bought our first motorhome and found it lacking in some areas and wish our salesman tried to fit us with what we really needed. He was a nice guy but when I expressed my feelings about slides etc. he didn't try to show me why my ideas might be wrong. Why I would likely be happier in a larger unit etc. and never discussed the fact we would not be able to use it in the winter etc. After less than a month we told the owner of the dealership we wished we had bought a bigger unit. He said bring it back and he would see what he could do. Imagine how we felt when we found they would only give us $38K trade on a unit we had just purchased for $52. Needless to say we still own the unit. So seriously, what motorhomes could we purchase, say for $89K or less that we could live in more than a weekend and would have better setups for insulation, tank heaters etc? There are only the two of us and a couple small dogs and we don't care about company sleeping over.

[jkot]

When we got it we were asked if we were going to be full-timers. The sales person knew that. And the finance person knew that. It was a bone of contention that we had to over come with finance because they didn't like the idea of us full-time and not knowing where we would be should we default on the loan.

It was the sales guy who greased the skids past finance to get us the coach. So sure he knew. He was instrumental in making it happen.

Originally Posted by mike.t

Did the OP remind the salesman "remember we will be using it full time"? I guess they could have gotten the same piece of ? even if they got a "full timer". Unfortunate. The DVD player not playing while the wife is busy still chaps me raw. Could have phrased it better.

[B and B]

Originally Posted by jkot

The side panels of the Coach were suppose to be held in place by these.
Of the 15 screws that were there, only the front one was actually in the panel. The rest were either missing or missed the mark of going into the panel.

It's a wonder the whole thing didn't fall off.

Thank you for answering this. I had a issue with a panel on my Super Slide which was similar, was fixed by dealer with no issues after some new fasteners.

[davel1971]

Originally Posted by Bob Montgomery

So seriously, what motorhomes could we purchase, say for $89K or less that we could live in more than a weekend and would have better setups for insulation, tank heaters etc?

New? Absolutely nothing. But for that price, you can find quality used diesel pushers. 10-15 years old are still very good reliable units, from the top makers.

[jkot]

As the old commercial said "this isn't your father's old's mobile". The times have changed. Just because it's been done that way for a long-time doesn't necessarily make sense today.

A long time ago might have been you need 1/4 tank of gas. Trucks didn't get the kind of mileage back then. Maybe the fact is that people got about 5-6 miles and so now that we are hitting 10 - 11, the need for 1/4 tank is gone. 1/8 of tank is good enough.

This reminds me of the old joke. "Mother, why do we cut the legs of the turkey off before we bake it? I don't know. We've always done it that way. Let's ask Grandma.

Gradman, why do we cut the legs off the turkey before we bake it. I don't know that's the we've always done it. Let's ask great grand ma.

Great Grandma, why do we cut the legs of the turkey before we bake it?
Because the pan I had was too small and that's the only way I could get it to fit".

That's the problem with thinking we've always done it that way. People in the past had a reason. We need to understand the reasoning and adapt.

In the words of Emerson: "A foolish consistency is the hob gobline of little minds."

Maybe, as I said, if you only got 5 - 6 mpg then 1/4 tank with about 14 gallons is good. That gets you 60 miles. But now to 1/4 gets you 120 miles. So maybe the objective was just to get you 60 miles and we need to adapt to 1/8 tank?

The times, they are a changing. Keep up or die with the dinosaurs. DVDs were not in coaches of days of old. So things need to be done differently to take advantage of the new technology and to implement it right.

And if we as customers continue to accept shoddy workmanship and service then that's what we're going to get.

Change or die with the dinasoures

Originally Posted by wahoonc

With the exception of the rivets and screws? Everything else is pretty much industry standard. Forest River doesn't make the thermostats and converters or the DVD players. The 1/4 tank of fuel has been around for many years. If keeping that much gas in the tank is a problem, maybe you shouldn't own an RV?

Aaron

[CaptnJohn]

My Ford trucks~~ same thing with the DVD. There is an aftermarket wire harness ($250) that takes care of that and more. I've been tempted to change but as I trade every 18 - 24 months and believe there would be liability,,, never have done it,

[Ida Ratherbe Camping]

On the DVD not playing unless emergency brake on. I have an aftermarket in dash DVD player in my truck. It was set up same way. I just cut the wire going to the brake and grounded it. DVD player works anytime now. For what it's worth.

[AquaMan]

I believe the 1/4 has been researched for quite some time, and though it may not fit your particular need, the next guy may be coming to the forum complaining that his coach ran out of gas because he ran his generator and couldn't get to a gas station with the fuel left. You say you get 10-11 mpg, but what if you're not on or near a highway? What if you're in a mountainous region of back roads and/or stop and go traffic? What if you're pulling a toad? You're argument on this matter doesn't hold up for everyone.


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