Pros & cons (morally & legally) of dumping grey water.

[NoviBill]

Skipping the legal - I just don't know...

Grey water has soap and food particles in it. Mostly harmless to grass.

My concern is where it is dumped - Food particles attract wildlife including coyote/skunk/raccoon/bear endangering other campers. I have been in a tent when bears have visited the idiot next door in the camper with the food on the picinanc table - no fun from a tent.

Now if you are on a manicured lawn in the suburbs - your call.

[lhuff35204]

We keep a dishpan in the kitchen sink to collect our rinse water only. We do have a grey water waste cap but have never used it. We also have a water bladder so conserving water for reuse isn't important but running out of galley tank is. If the campground has a "wash sink" we dump our dishwater there otherwise it goes in the tank. When we tent camped we showered, washed dishes, and rinsed right onto the ground since we didn't have a choice.

[Flybob]

There are way too many variables here for a definitive answer. What is in the grey water that may be undesirable ( food particles, toxins, communicable diseases).
Who is going to use the site after you leave. Someone with a small child that plays on the ground with their toys or someone with a pet.

Usage of the area. Is this a campground where the site will be occupied 8-12mths per year or remote federal land where no one will stay there for months.

Are you dumping 2 qts of soapy dish water once a day or 30 gals of grey water overnight.

Consider how you would feel if after driving all day in 95F weather you pulled into your site and next to your slide there was an area with flies and ants feeding on the food particles and grease from the previous camper.

The best solution is dump in designated areas only.

[formerFR]

as for the concern or question of 'why' manufacturers don't give you 'bigger' tanks, whether fresh water, gray, or black, has to do less with not wanting to give you more, but that they run into chassis weight constrictions - otherwise if they gave you these larger tanks, you might not have an additional cargo carrying capacity to carry your stuff(towables), or even yourself(motorized)!

[aknavy]

So, it seems like there is alot of misinformation in this thread as to the effects of dumping grey water, at least in my experience.



I stayed in a park in California that encouraged grey dumping in the tree line, and we dumped every 2-3 days at night. Never had bugs or animals present, nor was there any evidence of waste present where we dumped.


I've also dumped grey while boondocking on gravel/dirt, and again - no bugs, no animals, no ill effects. Generally, the ground absorbs it within 30 minutes, and the amount of food residue left is minimal - less than many other activities.



Did this in bear country in Alaska while parked in the same spot for a month. While a bear did wander thru the campground, they didn't visit us, so I don't see that we attracted them any more than other campsites.


Personally, as long as I'm not in a park, crowded area, or paved lot, I'm fine with dumping grey water.



Black water - nope, never.

[Mad Cow]

really not sure why this should be an issue. If one sets up an outside shower shelter and uses the outdoor shower attachments from their RV / TT, they are essentially doing the same thing as dumping grey water. If they throw their dish water out on the ground from cleaning up after a meal, same thing also. And the outside shower thing is totally legal as long as there is no nudity exposure to anyone. Now, of course, one should be somewhat sensible and not just dump across the ground, but do as others have suggested and dig a hole for it. And only dump enough to get one by. A slow trickle procedure is probably best.

[CincyGus]

https://www.campingworld.com/thetfor...UaAolREALw_wcB

When we are going long enough that we might be at risk of filling our gray water tank and camping where there will be a dump station, I put the tote in the bed of the truck just in case. We have the 30 gallon one which was a full tank on our old TT and is 3/4 of a tank on our new toy haulers 38 gallon gray and black tanks.

If there are no dump stations, but there are bathrooms and shower houses, We utilize those to minimize what we put in our B/G tanks, using them for night time bathroom trips and food/pots and pan washing only until we are sure we have room for the rest of the trip.

Like most things, a little planning ahead or using common sense goes a long way. If I were in a desert area or somewhere it was allowed, we would just make sure we used environmentally safe soap and dump gray if needed.

[mnoland30]

The problem with detergents is phosphates. Phosphate is a fertilizer, but like over fertilizing your lawn, too much is a bad thing. When I worked at a sewage treatment plant, the sewage went into a big tank to settle the solids, and the liquid was sprayed onto a tank full of rock. Algae grew on the rocks because of the fertilizer (nitrates and phospates) in the water. That is how it is treated.

We stayed in a campground near West Yellowstone for a week with 6 people. We were camped 50 ft. from the lake. The problem with phosphates in a lake or stream is that it causes algae blooms (too much fertilizer). I pumped my gray water into a 30 gallon tank in my truck, and drove out into the forest, away from lakes and streams, to dump it. The campground actually had a drip system set up to drain the grey water at each site, but I had gone to a lot of trouble to set up my system, so I used it.

When I worked as an engineer for the US Forest Service, we we got a permit from the Arizona EPA to spray effluent (liquid sewage) from a sewage pond when it began to overflow. By spraying the liquid over a large area, the sun eliminated the pathogens in a short period of time.

I was told by a NM EPA inspector that letting washing machine water run out over the ground 500 feet from a stream wasn't a problem.

As is often the case, good intentioned law makers over-react to a problem caused by a few people.

Encourage everyone to use the GEO method for their black water tanks. Much easier for the sewage treatment plants to deal with than formaldehyde, and works as well or better for way less money.

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by mnoland30

The problem with detergents is phosphates. Phosphate is a fertilizer, but like over fertilizing your lawn, too much is a bad thing. When I worked at a sewage treatment plant, the sewage went into a big tank to settle the solids, and the liquid off the top was sprayed onto a tank full of rock. Algae grew on the rocks because of the fertilizer (nitrates and phospates) in the water. That is how it was treated.

We stayed in a campground near West Yellowstone for a week with 6 people. We were camped 50 ft. from the lake. The problem with phosphates in a lake or stream is that it causes algae blooms (too much fertilizer). I pumped my gray water into a 30 gallon tank in my truck, and drove out into the forest, away from lakes and streams, to dump it. The campground actually had a drip system set up to drain the grey water at each site, but I had gone to a lot of trouble to set up my system, so I used it.

When I worked as an engineer for the US Forest Service, we we got a permit from the Arizona EPA to spray effluent (liquid sewage) from a sewage pond when it began to overflow. By spraying the liquid over a large area, the sun eliminated the pathogens in a short period of time.

I was told by a NM EPA inspector that letting washing machine water run out over the ground 500 feet from a stream wasn't a serious problem.

As is often the case, good intentioned law makers over-react to a problem caused by a few people.

Encourage everyone to use the GEO method for their black water tanks. Much easier for the sewage treatment plants to deal with than formaldehyde, and works as well or better for way less money.

You can say that again!

Bruce

[ronheater70]

I did once, and only because I was in a bind and really had no choice and just enough to get me by. I wouldn't just openly drain the whole tank there though.

[raytwntrvlr]

Really have never had to deal with this issue but... In order to keep our galley grey water tank as nice as possible, we always wipe down cooking utensils including the silverware with paper towels before washing. We are probably killing more trees than necessary but I doubt if our galley tank ever has significant food particles or grease in it.
In the fifties camping in the Michigan State Parks, I can clearly remember my folks heating water on the Coleman stove to do dishes and when done, dumping the "grey" water off in the bushes. It was done by all the campers back then. Of course, in those times it wasn't considered a big deal to toss a pop can out the car window. Times change and hopefully we learn better ways to do things.
The most disgusting behavior I ever witnessed by RVers was after the running of the Indy 500 one year and three motorcoaches all parked in a row on a parking lot near the race, opened their tanks and just drove off. YES, all their tanks.

[itat]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

The purpose of the GEO method is to soften human solid wastes so they don't persist in the BLACK tank after dumping. Why would you use it in the gray tank?

Larry

The Geo Method uses water softener and soap. It is not intended to soften or break down solids. The water softener works to reduce surface tension which effectively makes the inside of the tank slippery and prevents solids and grease from sticking thereby reducing the possibility of anything building up in the tank.

We use RV Digest-It which contains a bacteria that breaks down the solids. A product called Happy Camper does the same thing and comes in powder form.

[Iwritecode]

At the first CG my wife and I were seasonals at, everyone simply took a 5-gallon bucket, cut a hole in the bottom of it and buried it upside down behind the trailer. Then we ran a regular garden hose to it from the grey water outlet.

For the black tanks, we were pumped out every week as part of our seasonal fees.

[mkekflyers]

A couple years ago in an Ohio State park, we were told at checkin that due to a very long dry spell that they had no problem with us dumping our gray tanks into the woods or around our site where the grass/weeds really were dried out. Normally they frown on that, but they have relaxed their rules a bit out of necessity. As an earlier poster said, for years when tent camping, you dumped dishwater on the shrubs or trees as a way of recycling....just have to check and follow local rules/norms...

[RangeMaggotBob]

We just started dumping grey water this year. I don't have any kind of problem with it, morally or otherwise. One thing I have noticed this year, whether dumping at a dump station or dumping on the ground- our galley water smells REALLY bad. I mean nasty. Is it the Dawn soap we're using? I thought Dawn was environmentally ok, but maybe not. What's the consensus on dish soap?

[babock]

Originally Posted by RangeMaggotBob

We just started dumping grey water this year. I don't have any kind of problem with it, morally or otherwise. One thing I have noticed this year, whether dumping at a dump station or dumping on the ground- our galley water smells REALLY bad. I mean nasty. Is it the Dawn soap we're using? I thought Dawn was environmentally ok, but maybe not. What's the consensus on dish soap?

It's called bacteria! It grows in your grey tank.

[Beachbourbon]

Originally Posted by Cypressloser

It depends on the campground and municipal regulation.
On resort style campgrounds, never not in my wildest dreams and then we've been to many smaller usually county campgrounds where the hosts urged the campers to run a hose out into the tree line (not the trees in the common and playground areas obviously) so they could preserve precious drinking water. I've also drained the gray a few times into the bushes at night on provincial campgrounds where there was no other way to dump the gray. Btw., what do the tenters do with their gray water and what about the many campgrounds that have a hand pump over a basin that drains straight out onto the forest floor.
Tough to keep it politically correct and without stepping on somebody's toe .

Tent campers have designated places to dump dish water which is the only gray water we have. Usually this is the same place as a sink near the restroom that has been set up to wash dishes - in most state and national parks. As I understand it, the issue with tent campers washing dishes has more to do with attracting bears than environmental concerns about the water. I may be wrong (and proven so in this thread)

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by Beachbourbon

As I understand it, the issue with tent campers washing dishes has more to do with attracting bears than environmental concerns about the water. I may be wrong (and proven so in this thread)

After reading the post about the dog that was poisoned by chemicals in a grey water dump, there are probably more dire consequences than attracting bears.... although attracting bears is dire enough for me.

When we tent camped, we were more environmentally friendly in our use of water then in our tt or mh. We're going to have to rethink dumping grey water on private land. We generally don't use anything but soap, but we'd hate to accidentally poison any animal.

[banda]

After reading the post about the dog that was poisoned by chemicals in a grey water dump,

If it helps any, it was the black tank, not grey.

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by banda

After reading the post about the dog that was poisoned by chemicals in a grey water dump,

If it helps any, it was the black tank, not grey.

Correct.

My post was about a person who was permissibly draining his gray water with a garden hose and covertly draining black water liquid, only, through the same hose. The chemical residue from his black tank is what poisoned my dog. I don’t believe most people use the same types of chemicals in their gray tanks as they do in their black tanks, if they use any chemicals at all. I doubt (but, I’m not certain) my dog would have suffered any ill effects from drinking a little soapy gray water with no added black water treatment chemicals.

Bruce