Question? (Tow Vehicle)

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by babock

Another thing with these Canyon/Colorados is the 21 gallon fuel tank. If you are towing something 5000# and getting 10MPG, plan your gas stops well.

I get 12-15MPG towing. We need to stop for food/bio breaks more often than I need to stop for fuel. With the diesel I can get around 24 gallons into the tank.

I appreciate you trying to help, but when you think you know more than actual owners it comes across a bit...annoying.

Originally Posted by babock

LOL....yeah in a bare bones 2 door model. Get 4wd, 4 door and it's completely different. I looked at a bunch of them with a friend. They are very limited. He went with a full size pickup.


I see you have a camper shell too! You now have a payload of just over 1000#. That's the problem...bring a generator, firewood, more than 2 people...you are likely over payload with one of these trucks.

There are full-size trucks that have the same or less payload capacity than the Colorado/Canyon so your comment is a bit ignorant. You don’t like these as tow vehicles and that’s fine, but stop making assumptions and passing them off as fact when we as owners have seen and know differently.

I wanted a small diesel truck, had no need for an HD truck again (been there done that 3 times). The Ram 1500 EcoD Laramie CCLB 4WD has LESS payload than my Canyon. Many trims have less payload than my Canyon and some lower trims have around 30LB more payload.

If I wanted a gas truck then payload options open up quite a bit, but I had no interest in another gas truck.

Thanks.

[babock]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

\The Ram 1500 EcoD Laramie CCLB 4WD has LESS payload than my Canyon. Many trims have less payload than my Canyon and some lower trims have around 30LB more payload.

Thanks.

I agree with you on that. RAM 1/2T trucks have horrible payload especially the Ecodiesel....at least 2018 and prior.

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

I appreciate you trying to help, but when you think you know more than actual owners it comes across a bit...annoying.

I jogged my memory and remember this thread now! Actual owner here!
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ge-165937.html

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by babock

I jogged my memory and remember this thread now! Actual owner here!



http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ge-165937.html

Yup! And magically I'm not overweight anymore after making changes to WDH and trailer loading. Just goes to show how easy it is to overload ANY vehicle and not know it because it doesn't look or feel overloaded.


It almost works out like this...


There are 2 types of trailer owners; Those that hit the scales and find out they're overweight and those that have no idea they're overweight.


I appreciate being the one ripped on for actually doing the legwork with my setup and making corrections. Makes it so worth sharing my experiences so others can learn from them.


But thanks again, your posts have been very enlightening...

[babock]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

Yup! And magically I'm not overweight anymore after making changes to WDH and trailer loading. Just goes to show how easy it is to overload ANY vehicle and not know it because it doesn't look or feel overloaded.

Last I read you were over 200# over your GVWR. Must have shed more pounds since you last updated your thread.

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

...

I'm not going to stress about 280LB over GVWR. Changing truck or trailer would make that be a very expensive 280LB.

[SandFox]

Depends on who you ask. The online specs are well under weight. Like trailer is 5 something.

Sticker in door is just over 6100 and tounge weight is about 600lbs.

I have put about 500 miles in so far, both down the coast and up into the mountains of northern GA.

[babock]

Originally Posted by SandFox

Depends on who you ask. The online specs are well under weight. Like trailer is 5 something.

Sticker in door is just over 6100 and tounge weight is about 600lbs.

I have put about 500 miles in so far, both down the coast and up into the mountains of northern GA.

That is a mythical weight. Weigh your actual loaded trailer and trailer tongue.


The spec for my trailer tongue weight is 635#. With no water it's 700 and with full water it's 780. I also don't have batteries on my tongue since I switched to lithium and they are back inside the trailer. My dry spec weight is 4800#. My actual loaded weight with water is close to 6000#.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by babock

Last I read you were over 200# over your GVWR. Must have shed more pounds since you last updated your thread.

Yup, trailer was still a little tongue heavy and I don't load unnecessary items into the back of the truck. Just did 3,000+ miles traveling around the northeast over the course of 2 weeks, truck/trailer combo drive and ride like a dream, much better than before (which wasn't bad, but not nearly as good as now).

[SandFox]

That's next on the list of things to do. I have another thread that similarly echos your thoughts. I'm just curious why people wont pull a 33' TT with a 1/2 ton. If its capable then why not. In Europe they tow trailers with sports cars.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by SandFox

[...] In Europe they tow trailers with sports cars.

I've seen a family of 5 on a 125 cc motorcycle in Mumbai, no sidecar. So, if your goal is to find an outlier or bad behavior to justify something, then you're all set. That's not difficult to do. I snort cocaine, but at least I'm not shooting heroin into my eyeballs, so I'm good.

Conventional trailers should be 10-15% of trailer weight on tongue. If your dry weight on your trailer is 6,100 lbs and you have 600 lbs on the tongue, you're already outside of the safety zone. You're tongue light.

After batteries, other gear, toiletries, clothes, bedding, cookware, food, etc., that trailer will be around 7,100 lbs and should be dropping about 900 lbs onto your hitch, if properly loaded and balanced.

After WDH, that gives you around 550 lbs for all your passengers, yourself, any gear in the truck, anything in the bed, bikes, wood, etc.

You still haven't told us what you're towing, other than a 33' Cruise Lite. Unless you're towing a discontinued model, that means you have either a 273QBXL or a 282QBXL. I'm not sure why a person would get a quad bunk floorplan if that person didn't have at least 3 kids. A family of 4 is going to weigh around 600 lbs. Add another bill for each additional child. So, unless the bunks are just for show and it's just you and a spouse, I'm guessing you're overweight.

I wouldn't like a 33' wind sail on a mid-size platform, but that's your call.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by SandFox

I'm just curious why people wont pull a 33' TT with a 1/2 ton. If its capable then why not. In Europe they tow trailers with sports cars.

In a word, stability. I've been down that road, towed a 31ft (33ft overall) travel trailer with a Nissan Titan. It had no problems with acceleration or braking, the problem was stability in crosswind and with passing semis, I was blown around a bit and it wasn't a pleasant experience. Had a Reese SC anti-sway hitch, etc.


After a year with that setup and hating having to stop for gas every 150-160 miles I sold the Titan and bought a Ram 3500 MegaCab SRW 4x4 with the Cummins. Used the same WDH and it was a completely different experience. Towing the trailer was actually pleasant instead of an adventure. The additional weight and wheelbase from the Ram nipped the stability issues in the bud.



Keep in mind that just because a trailer may fit within the weight limits doesn't mean it's going to tow well. Towing a 10,000LB dump trailer full of rock is going to provide a much better towing experience than a 10,000LB travel trailer that's 33+ft long. That long trailer acts like a pendulum and a sail, stability/sway are no joke.


Weight is only part of the picture.

[SandFox]

Thanks, I was not implying that a family of 5 on a motorcycle was safe, but good reference. I think that I do need a better tow rig, however I was curious as to others thoughts. Todays mid size trucks are way more capable than most people seem to think. As for the windsock, well not driving at excessive speeds helps.

[babock]

Some people just look at the specs and that's where it all ends. You have to use your loaded weight, actual cargo in the vehicle and figure out if the truck has the capability or not. Even then, you will find people that think its just fine to go with whatever they have.



My neighbor just bought a 26' trailer and tows it with a Jeep that has a 1000# payload. He kept on bringing up how many pounds the max towing weight was and ignores the payload completely. There are a lot of people like him towing overweight rigs around. He is going to be towing where I tow...through the mountains of the Sierra Nevada. He may be in for a rude awakening someday...hopefully not.

[SquiggyFreud]

Originally Posted by SandFox

Is anyone out there utilizing a midsize truck as their primary TV? If so how large of a rig are you hauling? What's your TV? I have a '17 Colorado LT and pulling a '20 Salem cruiselite. Just wondering if anyone else is amazed by this new midsize trucks coming out, and if they are using them as advertised?

I tow a 2109S with a 2016 Canyon Gasser, it tows well, especially since I went with an equalizer 4pt over a pro series with the add on sway control.

I average 14MPG at 55 and about 7MPG at 65MPH.

I have put it on the scale 4 times, average trailer weight 5300lbs, tongue weight 750.and am fine on all weights although I am down to 200lbs of cargo space. (Canyon has same payload as a tundra) 1512lbs on mine. For this reason we will be looking at a half ton to increase our cargo capacity, very soon.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by SandFox

In Europe they tow trailers with sports cars.

Have you ever been to Europe or actually looked at the specs of European trailers?
I have numerous times and there's a BIG difference between our trailers and their trailers.
We think we have ultralight trailers here but they are nowhere near as light as comparable European trailers.
They also all have a very low profile in comparison.
In my travels there, I've seen WAY more "tail wagging the dog" combos there, per capita, than here.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by babock

Some people just look at the specs and that's where it all ends. You have to use your loaded weight, actual cargo in the vehicle and figure out if the truck has the capability or not. Even then, you will find people that think its just fine to go with whatever they have.



My neighbor just bought a 26' trailer and tows it with a Jeep that has a 1000# payload. He kept on bringing up how many pounds the max towing weight was and ignores the payload completely. There are a lot of people like him towing overweight rigs around. He is going to be towing where I tow...through the mountains of the Sierra Nevada. He may be in for a rude awakening someday...hopefully not.

Indeed. My wife has a 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel, 7,200LB "max tow" but only a 1,050LB payload capacity. Could it tow our HTT without being overweight? Sure, if it were only me and maybe my wife with nothing else in the Jeep and that's only a 5,000LB trailer. A 7,200LB trailer with 12% on the tongue would be overweight as soon as I got into the driver's seat (and I'm not THAT heavy).



I'm not a fan of big govt and more regulations, but IMO the marketing on what vehicles can tow and the ability of salespeople to lie through their teeth to sell something needs to be changed. RV dealers should be required to actually weigh vehicle combinations before selling and put in writing how much payload the vehicles have left and have all parties sign it. It won't prevent people from going overweight, but some sort of accountability and education for salespeople and buyers alike should be required.

[tomkatb]

Folks take the towing capacity listed for trucks fail to understand these ratings.

Engineers are taught to read SAE specs.

The spec is specific. A tow vehicle will pull it up a hill ok and stop ok. Period. In dry weather.

Does not consider anything else. Like rolling over. Mileage. Sway.

Also the tow vehicle looks like a Ferrari with cinder blocks on the seats. I.E. there is no wind resistance nor side loading, a 33’ long trailer 10’ high is a wonderful sail. And that big box is a big 8’x10’ air brake. Not considered in the specs.

I would suggest one stay well under published specs on light trucks and SUV’s.

There are a lot of complaints about 1/2 ton trucks pulling long boxes.

[Dstaten1]

We tow a 18TO Wolf Pup with our ‘16 Colorado LT with no problem. My husband’s favorite truck.

[reevesfamily]

DieselDrax, do us all a favor and post before you take off on that next 75mph trip with that combination. You're one stupid maneuver or incident away (either you or a fellow traveler in or out of your lane) from a serious accident. I don't want to be on the road with ya.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by Reeves

DieselDrax, do us all a favor and post before you take off on that next 75mph trip with that combination. You're one stupid maneuver or incident away (either you or a fellow traveler in or out of your lane) from a serious accident. I don't want to be on the road with ya.

Thanks dad, but don’t worry about me. I’m not the danger on the roads.

[CurtPutnam]

Don't know if it is relevant, but my Dad rolled his rig in Alaska. Was a '90ish Grand Cherokee pulling a 20'ish TT - both vehicles totaled but no injuries, not even the dog. Not sure why I think it was sway that got him. Wasn't a subject he wanted to dwell upon.

I *think* it was said that he was pulling out to pass a truck when things got upside down. The short wheelbase and probably no anti-sway combined with largish TT that outweighed the Jeep. Dunno. It's why I believe in big margins.