Refrigerators - 12V DC or gas/electric?

[badermatic]

Hi folks,
I am considering the purchase of a new Forest River Surveyor Legend 19RBLE. Seems like a very nice unit but......it only comes with a 10cu ft 12V DC operated fridge. The type of camping we do is boondocking in a public campground w/o shore hookups for ~10 day periods at a time. I am worried the new fridge will not be able to keep working even with solar assistance on the batteries (the RV comes with a small 80 watt solar unit installed, but i probably will supplement with an additional 240 watts. I am used to the propane/electric fridge models which can make it through the 10 day periods..

Can anybody offer some advice on whether my concern, regarding the 12v DC fridge and effects on battery life for our type of camping, is valid?

Thanks,
---Andy---

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by badermatic

Can anybody offer some advice on whether my concern, regarding the 12v DC fridge and effects on battery life for our type of camping, is valid?
-

Your concerns are valid. We have multiple threads on this site from people complaining that their 12v DC refrigerators won't operate for the length of time they go camping. Salespeople will tell you that it's good for boondocking, but it's not.

[badermatic]

Thanks! That is exactly what the sales person is telling me....

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by badermatic

Thanks! That is exactly what the sales person is telling me....

When these 12v only fridges started showing up in RVs, during the pandemic, there were a lot of problems with them. So bad that FR dropped Furrion as a supplier because their 12v only fridges were junk.
That said, many owners are biting the bullet and spending money for more solar panels and lithium batteries.
Personally we prefer a 2-way fridge but there's just the two of us. I'm not willing to spend thousands of dollars, just to power the 12v only fridge.

[Old Coyote]

Originally Posted by badermatic

Hi folks,
I am used to the propane/electric fridge models which can make it through the 10 day periods..

Can anybody offer some advice on whether my concern, regarding the 12v DC fridge and effects on battery life for our type of camping, is valid?

Thanks,
---Andy---

We boonrock as you do (sometimes in a USFS campground). DEPENDING on your other 12V power needs besides the 12V refrigerator you will NEED either MORE SOLAR or MORE BATTERY or BOTH to boondocks for TEN DAYS with a 12V refrigerator.

We have 190w of roof solar, and 200w of portable solar, and a 250 AH Lithium battery. We usually consume about 50 AH per day. This means IF it is cloudy/overcast/raining we can last 5 days MAX, this is assuming that we get only about 20% solar output which is normal under these conditions. Under Normal Conditions we can boondocks for as long as our water and/or food lasts, and 12V power provide by Solar and a 5 day backup (for adverse conditions) in the Lithium battery.

For you to last TEN DAYS (under adverse conditions, as above) you would likely need either 5-600 AH of LITHIUM batteries AND 400-800 watts of solar panels controlled with an MPPT controller spec-ed to handle that output. THIS IS UNDER ADVERSE CONDITIONS.

Under more NORMAL CONDITIONS you might want 4-600 watts Solar, AND 2-400 AH OF LITHIUM batteries. This would allow your solar to recharge your batteries as they discharge ±40-60 AH per day.

It is ideal when boondocking to have/use LITHIUM batteries because they charge MUCH quicker that Lead Acid batteries and you can discharge them down to ±20% charge without damaging them.

Adding either solar panels or Lithium batteries will be expensive, but IT IS what you will need for ten days of boon docking with a 12V DC ONLY Refrigerator. Once again this all depends on your own power useage, although I believe 40-60 AH per day is about average for most people.

THESE ARE VERY ROUGH ESTIMATES and your needs may vary.

[badermatic]

Thanks again guys! This is what my brain was telling me. We camp in the Adirondacks (upstate NY) and solar conditions are not always optimal. I'll be in search of another RV unit with a more appropriate fridge. I appreciate your input!

[Chuck_S]

Lithium batteries and solar cells are a separate hobby you don't need to fool with.

Forest River lists the correct refrigerator -- the LP (gas)/ 120vAC) absorption refrigerator -- as an option in some of their literature. Find a dealer who will order one.

This refrigerator will run a month on a single cylinder of propane and will keep the ice cream frozen on the road or in camp. (And the beer cold.)

-- Chuck

[tomkatb]

Where and when you camp matters.

We consume about 100 amps dc per day. Cpap usage runs us up.

You will likely need that much. Those little solar panels are a joke.

Good to keep the battery up, over the storage season.

A huge lithium battery, .400 amps, is about $2000. Then you need the ability to recharge over 200 amps. Shade and trees are an issue.

The average 100 watt solar panel con, on its BEST day provide about 25 ah dc.

$3-4000 in solar and batteries or a gas electric fridge. Likely a small generator to run every other day. Or three.

Batteries ARE the weak link. We have 430 ah dc of wet cell batteries, a gas fridge and a Honda 2200. Recharge every other day. Daily if running the furnace. 12.3 cu ft gas electric fridge.

First purchase should be a battery monitor.

Tough question. When we bought our rv in 2018 lithium and solar were really, expensive. Dealers screwed everyone on them.

Today I kinda like a 400 amp lithium battery, a 400 watt solar set up and a small generator. The compressor fridges are sort of convenient.

[Ourvlife]

Your camping style dictates Propane/Electric.
I have 12v and love it but is not for you.

[snowdog50]

We have a 22 FR UltraLite 2606 with the 12v fridge and it does use up the battery. We found out one night Walmart stay over in ME. So we went out and bought a Lithium-Ion battery. Low and behold we've been testing it the last week in the driveway and last night my wife slept in the RV with her CPAP machine and she charged her phone. I checked the V last night and it was as 13.2V around 7pm. To my dismay the Lithium batter dropped to 10V and shut off this morning. As soon as I plugged it back in to shore power the meter showed 12.4V I unplugged it and after a few min dropped to 12.1. I left it unplugged so the 190W solar panel can charge the battery today. Makes me wonder if the onboard monitoring system in the battery shut it down.

[tomkatb]

Unfortunately Snow dog the math got ya.

A cpap running on 12 volt consumes about 30 ah dc. If it is a 120 volt model then with an inverter it would likely draw 40 or more amps.

The fridge can use up to 200 amps dc (unlikely) per 24 hours. Typically more like 100 amps during the summer. Your 100 amp battery thus likely can not keep up.

The use of the furnace is another big user. Most of us never really give it a workout. I have. We were trapped in the Texas disaster.

This does not include parasitic draws.

Modern rv;s use a ton of battery. The weakest link.

I am a believer in a big battery and Honda generator.

You are the captain and are in command. Turn stuff off or get more battery.

[snowdog50]

Originally Posted by tomkatb

Unfortunately Snow dog the math got ya.

A cpap running on 12 volt consumes about 30 ah dc. If it is a 120 volt model then with an inverter it would likely draw 40 or more amps.

The fridge can use up to 200 amps dc (unlikely) per 24 hours. Typically more like 100 amps during the summer. Your 100 amp battery thus likely can not keep up.

The use of the furnace is another big user. Most of us never really give it a workout. I have. We were trapped in the Texas disaster.

This does not include parasitic draws.

Modern rv;s use a ton of battery. The weakest link.

I am a believer in a big battery and Honda generator.

You are the captain and are in command. Turn stuff off or get more battery.

Thanks, her CPAP is 120v we weren't even running the fridge. We're boondocking in VT Labor Day Weekend. Needless to say my 2200W gen/inv is coming with us.

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by snowdog50

Thanks, her CPAP is 120v we weren't even running the fridge. We're boondocking in VT Labor Day Weekend. Needless to say my 2200W gen/inv is coming with us.

Excellent idea.
Also as another option, many cpap manufacturers sell batterie backups specifically made for their cpap machines. I've no idea of the cost, but a backup to your backup might be something to consider.

[Chris61]

I love my Magic Chef 10cu ft 12v fridge. My Rockwood 5th wheeler came with 190w of solar, only just enough to power fridge and nothing else. I added an extra 800w. The 80ah battery was pulled straight out and I added 400ah of lithium batteries (8 x 200ah cells), more than enough for 3 days running everything, with no sun. We have just completed 38 days without hooking up to power, although we did use a Victron 30a dc-dc charger when towing. The generator didn't get used. We run the 43" tv through the 1000w inverter, as well as ceiling fan. We did run the microwave through a seperate inverter only when batteries were almost 100% charged.

We try to never hook up to shore power when camping. This helps justify the initial cost of our setup. Depending upon your accessories, look at minimum 200ah lithium batteries and 400w of solar, more solar if possible

[Rhumblefish]

Originally Posted by Chris61

I love my Magic Chef 10cu ft 12v fridge.

X2. All parts, though I’d suggest 300ah of battery at minimum.

My little Roo was delivered the same way. We added the same 800 watts to the existing 190w panel, moved 600ah of LiFePo inside the coach, and swapped in 3000w of inverter, (along with support hardware). One shakedown weekend and we were off to Rocky Mountain for a week+ Offgrid. This setup has the legs to flawlessly support us indefinitely, even in shady sites and through the winter, providing all the power we like, save only for 24/7 air conditioning. Even that we can manage a few hours to cool the coach.

When you consider the $difference btw a 12v and a 2-way fridge, you’re halfway to the cost of a substantial solar/lifepo setup. If you want to limp along with a lesser system (400w of solar and 200 ah of LiFePo), I’d say costs are about a wash. That’ll run your fridge boondocking with plenty to spare, mimicking a 2-way fridge setup… but now with additional power for your use.

Your mileage may vary.

[snowdog50]

Originally Posted by Reverse_snowbird

Excellent idea.
Also as another option, many cpap manufacturers sell batterie backups specifically made for their cpap machines. I've no idea of the cost, but a backup to your backup might be something to consider.

Thanks I will look into this. Last night was horrible with the new battery. 9:30pm we're at 13.2V. I have the 12v fridge running, and her CPAP. I unplug the shore power and by midnight 2.5hrs, her machine is off and she had to plug back into shore power. This is a brand new Lithium-ion battery. I'm glad I am able to do this driveway testing but i'm hating the results. My buddy told me to kill the breaker on the converter. I haven't done this yet may try it tonight.

[tomkatb]

Snowdog.

Check the cpap out carefully. Many have an optional 12 volt option. Especially if your cord has the large device in the cord. Most cpap’s are dc.

If you just run a cord from the converter to the rv shore power plug. The converter automatically is running to recharge the battery. A loop!

You need to unplug the converter! Or turn its breaker off. You should easily have the cpap make the night off the battery.

On standby inverters consume 1-2 amps dc per hour. So it needs to be off when not being used. Inverters use a ton of amps!

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by snowdog50

Thanks I will look into this. Last night was horrible with the new battery. 9:30pm we're at 13.2V. I have the 12v fridge running, and her CPAP. I unplug the shore power and by midnight 2.5hrs, her machine is off and she had to plug back into shore power. This is a brand new Lithium-ion battery. I'm glad I am able to do this driveway testing but i'm hating the results. My buddy told me to kill the breaker on the converter. I haven't done this yet may try it tonight.

That's too much draw on your battery. It might do the fridge overnight or the CPAP, but not both. We don't have a CPAP, but other users have said that operating it on 12v and turning off some of the options (heat?) will reduce the draw.
There's a lot of good information on this site www.cpap.com .
You can always stick a bag of ice in a refrigerator to keep the food cold, but your wife needs that CPAP to run. Also, a backup battery would be a good idea for your home just in case the power goes out.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by snowdog50

Thanks I will look into this. Last night was horrible with the new battery. 9:30pm we're at 13.2V. I have the 12v fridge running, and her CPAP. I unplug the shore power and by midnight 2.5hrs, her machine is off and she had to plug back into shore power. This is a brand new Lithium-ion battery. I'm glad I am able to do this driveway testing but i'm hating the results. My buddy told me to kill the breaker on the converter. I haven't done this yet may try it tonight.

I agree... recheck that CPAP.
I have two friends that run theirs off a 12v portable car jumper/power supply they bought at an auto parts store.
It runs theirs (individually) without the heat option for one night without issue.

[GravelRider]

Originally Posted by badermatic

Hi folks,
I am considering the purchase of a new Forest River Surveyor Legend 19RBLE. Seems like a very nice unit but......it only comes with a 10cu ft 12V DC operated fridge. The type of camping we do is boondocking in a public campground w/o shore hookups for ~10 day periods at a time. I am worried the new fridge will not be able to keep working even with solar assistance on the batteries (the RV comes with a small 80 watt solar unit installed, but i probably will supplement with an additional 240 watts. I am used to the propane/electric fridge models which can make it through the 10 day periods..

Can anybody offer some advice on whether my concern, regarding the 12v DC fridge and effects on battery life for our type of camping, is valid?

Thanks,
---Andy---

The DC fridge is a real power hog. However, it also works great. It keeps things cold and doesn't require the rig to be leveled, and is very roomy.

The 80 watt panel is a joke. It'll keep the battery trickle charged when not in use, and not much else.

We have a 10 cu ft 12 V DC fridge, and hated it at first with the factory 50 watt panel and two puny 12 V marine batteries. We couldn't make it more than two days without needing to run the generator.

We upgraded to four 6 V LA batteries (430 Ah capacity) and 800 watts of solar. With this setup, we can run everything indefinitely in a sunny spot in the summer. Under heavy shade, we can get about 4-5 days before we need to run the generator. With generator usage every few days, we can camp in heavy shade indefinitely with the 12 V fridge.

I installed all the solar myself, so I saved a ton of money. I also went lead acid, not lithium. All in, I think I spent about $1200-1400 for a boondocking setup that works. So, if you're handy and willing to spend a bit of extra dough after the sale, you don't have to completely discount DC fridges.