RV Dealers Fed-up with Quality

[Nick Danger]

Originally Posted by KyDan

You are right! Glad you got a good one but I am baffled why they are still using that dometic 300 toilet after all the complaints!

Have to use up existing inventory.

Probably can't get enough of the replacements to keep up with production.

[Ex-tenter]

Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne

I feel very lucky, our 2021 Geopro hasn't had any major issues in the first 5000km. Just a few loosened screws and a couple of part specific problems (dometic 300 toilet, water pump bypass valve, etc). Not all COVID-era trailers are lemons.

X2! Our 2608BS built in June 2021 had only a few cosmetic issues, all of which are now repaired.

[Thatdarncat]

Ok, here's the skinny:
They all make junk, been making junk for years now and are notorious for making junk.
If you want a camper with any decent quality at all, look at casita, scamp or any other fiberglass trailer.
I thought the airstream would be a good camper too until I ran into a guy at a dump station one day and he was chewing nails over his new airstream leaking like a sieve.

[drolloc]

Originally Posted by cboss

Read this article this morning. I was dismayed, but expected something like this based on the complaints I've read on this forum. I'm sure the RV industry is not the only one affected by a lack of willing skilled workers.

https://www.rvtravel.com/pathetic-qu...oducing-1017b/

The real deal is besides no quality control,rvs rattle their selves to death,so they are a constant project---- better be able to do some repairs yourself or you will be at the dealership forever!

[rwriley1053]

Originally Posted by Thatdarncat

Ok, here's the skinny:
They all make junk, been making junk for years now and are notorious for making junk.

x2. The whole industry needs a good "Butt Kickin" from an outside source. Much like the big 3 car guys got their heads handed to them by Toyota and Honda back in the 80's.

I won't bore you all with the crap I have encountered from 25 years of RV'ing, but it's inexcusable.

[Jim S JR]

Maybe it's time for Lemon Laws for RV's. This forum is pretty clear that their is very little incentive to build quality into their product. Just look how long it takes to get an appointment for repairs. That is a good Indicator on where the industry stands.

My Rockwood 5th wheel is year old last week. Turned in some additional repairs right before the warranty expired. This is the 3rd time in. It's been sitting in for repairs for 4 months of the 12.
There is another issue with the quality of the mechanical's. Had the circuit board replaced on the furnace. The fridge works mediocre, DVD player went out. These are definitely good arguments for extended warranties.

[Thatdarncat]

Lemon laws have been talked about for years in the rv industry...nothing happens
Its CAVEAT EMPTOR.
If you want a camper that holds its value and has less trouble that the spit, tissue, and popsicle stick construction, then go with fiberglass campers. Either it can work for you or you will simply continue to suffer
There is a truck camper by the name of. Capri which is pretty good construction, other than that everything else pretty much sucks. Personally I would have an airstream after that guy was complaining about his leaking badly. Likewise, i bet those things would look pretty bad after a good hail storm....a 50k or better looking golf ball

[Boyd]

Originally Posted by MR.M

It's been like this for quite some time and has gotten worse with the virus .
I'm sure dealers would love to get better products but in the end it's falls on the manufactures that has been doing bum works for years . I think maybe it is time to move the industry from Indiana .Clearly they are worse then Detroit was in the 70's .

I'm hearing that, Mr.M and it makes me wonder if the RV MFG industry has been paying wages to it's workers commiserate with their skills or offering on-the-job-training for even less. And don't get me started on how the "profit-pie" is sliced up between the share holders of Berkshire Hathaway and the dealers. :-)

[cruisintx]

Long read from a few years ago but seems to be holding true as time goes by.

https://fifthwheelst.com/documents/R...TA-U0N0jXGd_og

[CeltiCraig]

Indiana is just a staging hub. The majority of RVs and RV parts are made by the same manufacturers in China. They are marketed and sold under different names but the are exactly the sane quality with some minor cosmetic differences. Dealers unfortunately are at their mercy.

[whjco]

We purchased a 2019 Forest River Cherokee 274 vfk brand new in November 2018 so we've now had it for 3 years. The only quality issue we've had with it was that the overhead storage bin doors over the bed had hinges that were just screwed to the cabinet with wood screws that pulled out. I replaced the wood screws with flush-head bolts with a washer, lock washer and nut on the back side and that fixed the issue.

I've been impressed with the fit and finish of the travel trailer and we've been quite happy with it. We even visited the Cherokee plant in Topeka, IN where it was built and found out that much of the work was performed by Amish craftsmen. The only real quality control issue we've had was sawdust that was left on the bathroom ceiling that filters down out of the ceiling when we tow the trailer any distance.

We put about 5 thousand miles on the Castle Rock tires without any problems, but I replaced them with Goodyear Endurance tires. The Castle Rocks were installed on a friend's utility trailer and are still going strong.

I haven't looked at any recent units but we're very happy with the quality of our Forest River Cherokee 274 vfk.

[NOTBBB]

The switches are all askbackwards. I I had to label all the switches so I can understand what switch does what.
Starting at the top row:

AWNING and SLIDE switches should both be rotated 90 degrees so that the actual direction reflects the actual direction of travel.

OUTSIDE lights:
As you face this panel;
The outside blue lights are actually on the right side.
The outside shower light is actually on the left.

The INSIDE lights, again as you face the panel;
The kitchen lights are on the right side
The living area lights are in the middle
The inside blue lights of the slideout are on the left.
Wasn’t anyone paying attention?
Guess not?

[old40ford]

Originally Posted by fishingkid

I purchased a brand new 2021 Forest River Wolfpack 23pack15 on 09/14/21. The dealership was 460 miles away. We negotiated price over the phone I was sent pictures via text message. We put a deposit down on the unit being we had a couple trailers sale prior to us making it out to make the deal. When we arrived for our pickup appointment we had our check in hand and insurance ready. We were under the impression the trailer had been fully inspected and detailed prior to us showing up we would do quick inspection. Sign a few papers setup sway bars and get on the road heading home.
Definitely not the case we go to inspect the trailer it’s semi clean interior and exterior tech wants to start inside ok sounds good. The rear happy jacks bed frame is bent in more then 1 spot the main door would not shut the bathroom door would not close corner of cabinet was busted up a little. Generator fired up then he could not shut it down. The controller on the wall that reads out tank levels would not work. He says he can fix most of it prior to us leaving.
Now we go to inspect exterior. First thing I notice is rusted bolt then some corrosion then some surface rust trailer only has 1 battery all ground wires are corroded rusted ground screws. Propane tanks and lines are rusted and corroded.The trailer still had salt all underneath of it from initial transport from manufacture 4 hours later we work out a deal they throw in some extras offer to take more money off put us up in hotel room and return the next day after they make some repairs.
We return the following day at the time specified they are not finished. We sit in the lobby with a 1 and 3 year old for 3 more hours they finally ask us to inspect it but mention generator will not run more then 1-2 minutes they promise to get in contact with manufactures get parts ordered and sent to local dealer near us. We end up driving 9 hour trip home next day I get in contact with NPS generators myself since the dealership did not have a lead on parts or repair option. NPS was great on the phone had a warranty certified tech out next day he says generators possibly wired wrong might need new generator he ordered a board and said try that next week.
In the meantime I have been making small repairs and finding terrible craftsmanship all over this trailer staples pulling out of the wall after our drive home screw heads sticking up out of the floor. The main entry doors a disaster they dented the door jam made Swiss cheese under the strike plate trying to readjust latch door is scratched up from rubbing on the latch with giant pan head screws sticking out. I won’t name the dealership just yet as I did have a few guys that were extremely helpful but needless to say I am very disappointed in the workmanship on this trailer. I purchased new hoping to avoid some of this

I’m feeling some of your pain. My new Arctic Wolf Wolf has a few things too. The worst is it has a black tank that refuses to dump when I want it to, I think I have the dreaded “cut out fell in the tank and blocks the drain syndrome “ I just don’t know what to do with it.

[elob_tx]

Anyone that has experience with the quality issues of the 1980's and 1990's will remember the mantra "You get what you expect, not what you inspect." Rework is not a cost effective remedy for these issues. The higher end motorized coach manufacturers have the same crew or team working all the way through the production process to the end. There is an organization, ASQC American Society for Quality Control, that can provide the tools for employers to address these issues. The Japanese manufacturers applied these principles and they have been taken to other countries as well. So the knowledge to address these issues is readily available. As I see it the biggest issue is the shortage of a trained workforce and the large number of open jobs that allow anyone to jump ship and quickly find another job qualified or not. High schools and local community colleges could address the training issues most economically and manufacturers need to hire qualified trained employees. It's all fixable.

[CCrew]

Just more RVTravel click bait. No real defining moments in the article as usual.

[Bob Brown]

We have a 2013 Forest River Sunseeker 3170ds E450 Ford V10 that we bought with only 3000 miles on it in 2015 and was basically a brand new RV! We have owned it since then and now have 19,000 miles after taking a couple of trips to Florida and one trip to Newfoundland as well as day trips here and there. This was our first RV and likely be our last!

Well hardly anything has required service except normal maintenance and nothing has fallen off or broken and that includes winterizing sitting in an open storage yard in Ontario, Canada in sub zero temperatures and I do my own winterizing with quality RV antifreeze that costs me $12!

i wouldn't even consider trading her in on a new RV after reading of the abysmal build quality and lack of quality control in new RVs especially since the pandemic. I would be sick to spend all that money and then to have so many items requiring attention and have it sit at a dealer for weeks/months waiting for parts/repairs!

We are one of the lucky ones that got a well built unit with no problems of any kind!

Bob Brown
________________________

2013 Forest River Sunseeker 3170ds
2020 Honda CRV (now they should build RVs!)

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by CeltiCraig

The majority of RVs and RV parts are made by the same manufacturers in China.

Please post what brands of RVs are made in China.
We all can agree that a lot of parts and appliances are overseas, mainly China.
But you're completely wrong about RVs made in China. They have no local market for them and I've never seen any RVs off-loaded from container ships from China. So I'll wait for you to provide even 5 motorized or towable RV brands that are made in China and shipped here.

[JRHERE]

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

Have to use up existing inventory.



Probably can't get enough of the replacements to keep up with production.

The later version Dometic 300 is a decent item. Very common and popular. New version units serial number begins with "04xxx"
The dog 300 pottie has different inner/outer shell seal surfaces that may leak. You will know it if that occurs. Serial number "3xxxx-8xxxx" is the range for stinkers. Stinky things if the seal fails.
That said, Dometic is supporting the faulty units with the newer design 300 and 310s. They have them in stock. Easy to replace...R&R 15 minutes. Never tip a stinky 300 when moving it. Keep it upright at all times.
My experience with a new '19 (May, 19) Vengeance Rogue 31v is that the accessories are causing most of my grief. Awning, tires, pottie issue, none of which were showstopper. All (except the pottie) due to no avail parts.
Compounding the problem is lack of dealer support in the service dept. Of what use is a service dept "6 months out" for any repairs. Zero use is correct.
Our 31V isn't a "high quality" unit, but not bad either. Owning an RV is a sub-hobby within the camping hobby.
I'm of the opinion that perfectionists that are not DIYers don't need RVs. Or boats for that matter.
Still, RV quality has always been an issue. Modern owners are not comfortable with repairing things
I like our 31V and don't mind making repairs. The vendor backorders are another issue...

[ilmor]

I have purchased a Canadian RV, a class B from pleasure way. The quality is excellent. They could teach Indiana quite a bit. this is not intended as a knock on Forest River, I owned two Forest River products before this and I thought they were good RVs, however the Canadian pleasure way quality seems much better.

[IDguy]

Originally Posted by mjbenedict

I know the manufacturers state that they would need to charge more for the rigs if they did more extensive quality control. I honestly think this would be a welcome charge and it would not need to be too much over the price of these high-priced units. I would have gladly paid thousands more on my motorhome to have it done with higher quality craftsmanship especially when it comes to plumbing and electrical. Funny how they can’t even afford to take a vacuum to the insides of cabinets before closing them up. They need a quality control group that inspects each finished step in construction.
Tearing apart a rig to fix a pipe glued too far down into a black tank should be unnecessary. Leak and capacity tests should be standard, electrical checklist items should be done before leaving the factory. The only thing that the dealer should have to deal with is loose or disconnected items that occurred while the delivery guy pulled/drove the rig to the dealer.

Agree with the post that stated this needs to move from Elkhart. It’s obvious that the workforce is not very concerned with their quality of work.

That was the mindset prior to the 1970s. Then most manufacturers learned that not only “quality is free” but it actually saves huge amounts of money in rework and warranty repair. Apparantly some in the RV industry lost that insight.

It is all about the management. The workforce will do what they are led to do.