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Old 09-23-2021, 10:32 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Brewhedd View Post
As a former Union employee for two different large employers I can tell you a couple things. First, I've never seen Unions control the time it takes to complete a job. Second, management in this country is lacking in qualified people and is often blind to the long term effects of the policies to increase short term profit.
Unions don’t directly control the time to do a job, they do it through making sure someone who is not on that task/job can’t do the work even if they are qualified.
They will force a company to put a job on hold for hours to get the “electrician” to move a wire from one connection to another when someone else who is just as qualified can do it in minutes. They’ll put contractors on hold (at a huge expense to the company) to bring in someone for overtime work to simply turn a screw.
There’s also the seniority issue where a less qualified person gets jobs that are up for bid and sometimes an additional job needs to be created to make up for the senior person’s lack of qualification. All to avoid the grievance process.
Lastly, they will limit what a person completes in an 8 hour period if they discover one doing “too much.”
Former union employee here too, I’ve seen the above in more than one union plant.

Agreed, management is lacking too and some companies don’t look at long term profits over short term gains.
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Old 09-24-2021, 04:52 AM   #102
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Am I reading into this that the RV manufacturing industry isn't unionized? I can't see how that can be?
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Old 09-24-2021, 08:22 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by mjbenedict View Post
Unions don’t directly control the time to do a job, they do it through making sure someone who is not on that task/job can’t do the work even if they are qualified.
They will force a company to put a job on hold for hours to get the “electrician” to move a wire from one connection to another when someone else who is just as qualified can do it in minutes. They’ll put contractors on hold (at a huge expense to the company) to bring in someone for overtime work to simply turn a screw.
There’s also the seniority issue where a less qualified person gets jobs that are up for bid and sometimes an additional job needs to be created to make up for the senior person’s lack of qualification. All to avoid the grievance process.
Lastly, they will limit what a person completes in an 8 hour period if they discover one doing “too much.”
Former union employee here too, I’ve seen the above in more than one union plant.

Agreed, management is lacking too and some companies don’t look at long term profits over short term gains.

Kind of going off topic here but undoubtedly some negatives will exist. There are two sides to every coin. My experience In the manufacturing end was, while a few did take advantage, most did their job quite well. My last job before I retired was maintenance with a very, very large entertainment company in Orlando. I never experienced employees taking advantage of having a Union in a way that was detrimental to the company, maybe because guests lives could be at risk. We did use the Union to protect ourselves from being abused, which would have been a significant issue without being represented. Being an employee of the rat is 180 degrees out compared to being a guest, kind of surprising initially. Anyway
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Old 09-28-2021, 08:21 PM   #104
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RV Dealerships Think New Campers Are Pieces Of Junk, Too

As quoted in Jalopnik today, " The folks of RVtravel participate in nationwide conference calls with dealerships and others that sell and service RVs. In one of those recent calls, dealerships offered some pretty damning comments on the quality of new RVs". (read more here -----> https://jalopnik.com/rv-dealerships-...-to-1847755639 )

Between this news and the sky high vehicle prices due to the so-called "chip shortage" I'm keeping my 2017 MicroLite and 2020 Tacoma for awhile.

In fact my trailer has been great with the usual owner conducted PM. I've shored up my water tank, replaced my power jack, done some roof work, and repaired some minor odds and ends, but all in all, it has been fine. Also made some nifty modifications to make the trailer our own.

Some of my friends who have purchased over the last year or so have not been so lucky, which lends credence to the above posted article. Too bad, it gives the past time a bit of a black eye.

What do you think?
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Old 09-28-2021, 09:10 PM   #105
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Use to think I had one more rv purchase left in me. Now I think I have my last rv.
That has nothing to do with link you posted and everything to do with the lack of quality.
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Old 09-28-2021, 09:41 PM   #106
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Same story being spread by another outlet. This isn't news. It was, a couple of weeks ago when RVTravel first published it.
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Old 09-28-2021, 11:15 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Ex-tenter View Post
Same story being spread by another outlet. This isn't news. It was, a couple of weeks ago when RVTravel first published it.
There's also an existing thread here, on exactly the same subject, that was started 2 weeks ago.
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Old 09-29-2021, 01:30 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by bikendan View Post
There's also an existing thread here, on exactly the same subject, that was started 2 weeks ago.
Yes, a rehash of this:

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...ty-239947.html
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Old 10-02-2021, 08:57 AM   #109
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There is no doubt that there are quality problems but I suspect the dealer complaints are “crocodile tears”. If they were really concerned , they could easily put pressure on the manufacturers to improve by using their association strength to press for it. They are making money and as one of the quotes in the article says “You take what you can get, and you move on.”, shows they are not serious on getting changes made. The dealers are well known in many situations to pass off problems as coming from the manufacturer. As long as there is money to be made and the dealers continue to turn a blind eye in telling the buyer of issues; nothing will change.
I could not agree with you more. The dealers do not care about any sort of quality because the units are going out the door. When people stop buying is when the dealers will care. I liken RV dealerships with shady used car dealers - once its off the lot its not their problem!!
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Old 10-03-2021, 03:34 PM   #110
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Hard to believe the dealers care even a little. If they did , they wouldn't lie just to sell a unit. When I bought my brand new piece of garbage, they told me the new 12 volt only fridge was the greatest thing. It would run for 7 days with the 50W solar panel and the cheap group 24 battery. Reality is it won't make it overnight! When confronted he say's "Oh I meant 7 hours"! This whole new TT thing is the biggest mistake I've made financially recently, my old 20 year camper still had nothing replaced and was still in good working order. My new has not made it even one nite without something failing. Now the dealer just say's "sorry, it's out of warranty"! If the place wasn't 2 hours away I might be persuaded to park it thru their front plate glass, after all it was delivered with no working brake either! The dealers couldn't care less about what a POS they are selling as they are still selling even with all the lies. I've found even 2 year old units are still bad because folks are selling because they have given up on trying to get it repaired and selling them defective and taking the loss. Tried trading mine in and was told" we know how bad your unit is, we can give you 12K less than what book value trade in is" Oh gee can you!
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Old 10-10-2021, 12:54 PM   #111
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I'll cash in my 2 cents. I've been a Physical Damage Appraiser for an insurance company. While I used to deal with everything from injury, structures, autos, Ag Equipment, liability (multiline) I've since become the senior appraiser for everything with wheels or tracks in my state. For RV's, Travel Trailers, and Custom Horse Trailers, I have dealt with everything from $3k-$2Million$ RV's.

I live in a hail magnet and tourist destination and I can tell you this, there is definitely a difference in durability that I have noticed over the last 30 years. I was just discussing the quality issue with management and other appraisers about underwriting some of these. We noticed that we get a lot of these campers over 10 years old and don't make it through their first summer with us and they get totaled. We may take $150 in annual premium and then just 2 months later we are writing a check for $7k. If not because of hail, driving down the road and the side blows off, water damage etc. Sure one unit doesn't make much difference but the numbers just seem to be going up and up. Seems they are like trying to insure a card game (which is impossible)

Travel trailers especially are horribly constructed as I'll be looking for the cause of the loss and well find, screws sunk into wiring, plumbing etc. Stability of the structure is like a deck of cards with so few places wanting to work on sidewalls period. My biggest peeve is the exterior seals. Many manufactures like Jayco for example in their manual have a disclaimer to check your exterior seals every 2-3 months and replace them every 2-3 years. Nobody does that, I mean nobody. So what happens in typical fashion, water will eventually leak in, cause delamination of the exterior wall, leaks, rot, wind from driving down the road or a mild storm to rip out a chunk of sidewall. Roofs so poorly constructed that they probably should not put a ladder on the back. We used to use the rear ladder and then stopped and used our own and we eventually stopped doing that as well as we would often be accused of damaging the side of the camper with our ladder even if we didn't put our ladder up on that side (it was the owner putting their ladder to look), or 6 months later we get a call of rot from water leaking in and accused that it wasn't like that before we got on it to inspect. We just don't even get on the roof anymore simply because they really are not built to be walked on and if you walk on a hail damaged roof that has punched through the OSB an adjuster has a chance of going through or causing severe damage. So we pretty much just go to a 15ft selfie stick to see. This has been pretty accurate and has worked well the last 4 years as we have not had a single complaint on their use, supplements are still in line and 0 incidents of accusation that appraisers are causing any damage.

Hail has been pretty brutal here since 2015 for damage for vehicles. metals are being thinned out so they don't take a hail impact. New $80k pickups look like gorillas went after it, meanwhile, the 1997 Chevy 1500 Vortec sitting right next to it barely has any dents. Last year was absolutely horrible for large hail and the frequency of 15 events in my state. This year was pretty easy with the exception that an RV Park got hit with large hail.

It was an eye-opener for durability. I inspected probably 60+ units with everything under the sun. One $45k travel trailer with the fiberglass sidewalls had hai come through the roof and buckled the inner ceiling panels totaling it out easily with the overall damage. Many others were typical totals from brand new to 2003 units. I did find 2 units that did not total though. A 2002 Jayco 5th wheel insured for maybe $5k that surprisingly just lost its vent covers and skylight. The other was 2019 I don't remember the mfg or model but it was a swank $250k 5th wheel unit and it was built like a tank. One hailstone hit perfectly at the seam of an awning over one of the slideouts causing a small rip, satellite cover got hit, and tail light out and that was it. His pickup and SUV didn't fare as well with $20k+ in damages to each. The Class A RV's handled it like a champ as well with the exception of a $260k Winnebago as that one totaled out. The bus type chassis (Newmar, Monarch etc) came out with little more than a broken light, But for $1 million-plus they had better handle storms well.

I grew up camping, had a couple of campers of my own and as much as I would love to go out and buy one, I'm reminded every time I go work a claim on one why it makes sense not to buy one. At least not until they bring their quality back up or I win the lottery to buy a high $ unit.

But yeah, I agree with the article. Quality needs to go up and that is going to take not only a heavier, denser material but a higher quality assembly as well.
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Old 10-10-2021, 03:36 PM   #112
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What a great first post!
Welcome to the forum from Upstate NY.
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