Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-12-2021, 05:17 PM   #1
Just Tryin' to Help
 
cboss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,763
RV Dealers Fed-up with Quality

Read this article this morning. I was dismayed, but expected something like this based on the complaints I've read on this forum. I'm sure the RV industry is not the only one affected by a lack of willing skilled workers.

https://www.rvtravel.com/pathetic-qu...oducing-1017b/
__________________
Craig & Cath
2018 2902WS Rockwood Ultra Lite (with tons of Mods)
2017 Ford F250 Lariat, 6.2 gas (2022 F250 Lariat 7.3 gas with 10 speed Xmsn on order)
Equalizer Hitch w/ 4-Point Sway Control

Days camped since 2015(retirement): 1050
cboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2021, 05:29 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by cboss View Post
Read this article this morning. I was dismayed, but expected something like this based on the complaints I've read on this forum. I'm sure the RV industry is not the only one affected by a lack of willing skilled workers.

https://www.rvtravel.com/pathetic-qu...oducing-1017b/
It's been like this for quite some time and has gotten worse with the virus .
I'm sure dealers would love to get better products but in the end it's falls on the manufactures that has been doing bum works for years . I think maybe it is time to move the industry from Indiana .Clearly they are worse then Detroit was in the 70's .
MR.M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2021, 05:47 PM   #3
Just Tryin' to Help
 
cboss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR.M View Post
Clearly they are worse then Detroit was in the 70's .
Yep, reminded me of of some of the Chrysler issue also. They recovered, hopefully the RV industry will also.
__________________
Craig & Cath
2018 2902WS Rockwood Ultra Lite (with tons of Mods)
2017 Ford F250 Lariat, 6.2 gas (2022 F250 Lariat 7.3 gas with 10 speed Xmsn on order)
Equalizer Hitch w/ 4-Point Sway Control

Days camped since 2015(retirement): 1050
cboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2021, 07:31 PM   #4
Enjoying Life
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 684
There is no doubt that there are quality problems but I suspect the dealer complaints are “crocodile tears”. If they were really concerned , they could easily put pressure on the manufacturers to improve by using their association strength to press for it. They are making money and as one of the quotes in the article says “You take what you can get, and you move on.”, shows they are not serious on getting changes made. The dealers are well known in many situations to pass off problems as coming from the manufacturer. As long as there is money to be made and the dealers continue to turn a blind eye in telling the buyer of issues; nothing will change.
__________________
2022 Rockwood 2109S
2006 Durango HEMI

TeachTexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2021, 10:39 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 842
RV Industry

https://www.rvtravel.com/pathetic-qu...oducing-1017b/

Hope I did this attachment correctly. Just wanted to share
__________________
Formerly Mountieman
The Renegade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2021, 11:45 PM   #6
Site Team
 
bikendan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Camano Island, Washington
Posts: 26,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Renegade View Post
https://www.rvtravel.com/pathetic-qu...oducing-1017b/



Hope I did this attachment correctly. Just wanted to share
You posted the same link as in the Original Post here.
__________________
Dan-Retired California Firefighter/EMT
Shawn-Musician/Entrepreneur/Wine Expert
and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255, pushing a 2014 Ford F150 SCREW XTR 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost w/Max Tow Package
4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
bikendan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 09:07 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikendan View Post
You posted the same link as in the Original Post here.
Yes Sir, I posted it in a different section of the forum and did not know this was here. One of the mods moved it here. Sorry for duplicate..
__________________
Formerly Mountieman
The Renegade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 09:56 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 13,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR.M View Post
It's been like this for quite some time and has gotten worse with the virus .
I'm sure dealers would love to get better products but in the end it's falls on the manufactures that has been doing bum works for years . I think maybe it is time to move the industry from Indiana .Clearly they are worse then Detroit was in the 70's .
I just read the article and it was Deja Vu. I was 10vyears into my career in the auto industry when the crap from Detroit started hitting the market.

Only thing that made the mfr's change was the loss of market share to European and Asian car mfr's.

As the writer pointed out there most likely won't be any change in the RV industry until someone starts competing with "Elkhart".

Don't think it will require a super expensive line to take market share as way, just a mfr dedicated to better quality of workmanship and "zero defects".

The cars that kicked Detroit in the "tender spot" weren't all that expensive, they just didn't fall apart as quick.

If "Elkhart" doesn't change then current production RV's will have the same reputation as 70's models of Detroit vehicles, if they don't already.

BTW, this news makes me really glad I bought a 2018 midel mfd in spring of 2017. Other than the usual complement of sawdust everywhere it's been a sound TT with NO warranty issues. Even Castle Rock tires lasted ~20k miles before I replaced
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will."

"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"

2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2004 Nissan Titan
TitanMike is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 10:23 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 263
Anyone know if even outfits like Lance and Airstream are having these issues?
PodGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 10:46 AM   #10
D W
Senior Member
 
D W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ALASKA (World's Biggest Campground)
Posts: 4,110
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeachTexas View Post
There is no doubt that there are quality problems but I suspect the dealer complaints are “crocodile tears”. If they were really concerned , they could easily put pressure on the manufacturers to improve by using their association strength to press for it. They are making money and as one of the quotes in the article says “You take what you can get, and you move on.”, shows they are not serious on getting changes made. The dealers are well known in many situations to pass off problems as coming from the manufacturer. As long as there is money to be made and the dealers continue to turn a blind eye in telling the buyer of issues; nothing will change.
X2! The dealers complaining is the pot calling the kettle black. The dealers have no qualms with the quality while it's on the sales lot; only when it comes back for warranty work.
__________________
'07 K3500 Silverado LT Crew Duramax (LBZ)
2016 Salem 27RKSS
1984 CHEV SCOTTSDALE K20 2GCGK24J0E1XXXXXX (Chevrolet Legends-Class of 2019)
"...exhaust fluid? We don't need no stinkin' exhaust fluid"
D W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 12:23 PM   #11
Always Learning
 
ependydad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Four Corners, FL
Posts: 21,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeachTexas View Post
There is no doubt that there are quality problems but I suspect the dealer complaints are “crocodile tears”. If they were really concerned , they could easily put pressure on the manufacturers to improve by using their association strength to press for it. They are making money and as one of the quotes in the article says “You take what you can get, and you move on.”, shows they are not serious on getting changes made. The dealers are well known in many situations to pass off problems as coming from the manufacturer. As long as there is money to be made and the dealers continue to turn a blind eye in telling the buyer of issues; nothing will change.
Exactly, where’s the accountability for dealers? It’s my understanding that they can charge PDI fixes back to the manufacturer.

It’s long been said (pre-2020) that RVs are 80% compete when they get to the dealers and it’s up to that dealer to finish what’s not finished or done wrong.

Dealers are as guilty as the next for passing these crap units onto the customers.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 DRW/crew cab/long bed/4x4/4.10 gears pulling a 2017 Spartan 1245 by Prime Time
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're settlin' down for a spell
ependydad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 12:38 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Palinduff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 285
It's too bad most of the Canadian manufacturers folded after the 2008 melt down. Vanguard, Peak, Travelaire, Citation, Okanagon all made excellent quality RVs. You can see it in the construction. Look under things and in the cupboards, real wood, even the trim is real wood. I worked in the RV industry for a few years as a salesman and I had a few customers that would rather buy a used Canadian model than any of the new ones. Even Grand Designs quality has decreased as they have increased the prices the last couple of years. I'll hang onto my Puma, at least with the lower (less expensive) models, there's no illusion of quality, even though I've had zero issues since I had the initial issues fixed in the first year.
__________________
2017 F150 Eco Boost, SC, 8' Box, 4X4
Max Tow (10 speed, 3:73, 11,700lbs), HD Payload (2440lbs)
2015 Puma 253 FBS
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe
2000 Honda EX 400
Palinduff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 12:42 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
jd-ford-hd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 185
For Years Now.!

In 1995 we started selling towable RV's along side our commercial/utility line of trailers. We were concentrating on toy haulers exclusively which were just coming to everyone's attention. I was appalled at the lack of quality control and eased out of the RV business a short 4 years later.! We are still selling commercial trailers. If RV's had to be subjected to Federal DOT roadside inspections like commercial trailers are, there would be drastic changes made within the industry overnight.!!
__________________
"IF IT AINT GOT A MOTOR, I AINT INTERESTED"
jd-ford-hd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 12:59 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 181
Quality

I have a Sunseeker 3010DS 2018 that was built in 2017, guess that was lucky as I have not had many issues with it other then things I spoiled. The major items were the door locks inside that keeps the doors closed. Replaced many of those. Knock on wood! Installing front and rear torsion bars this month and waiting on the stabilizer to arrive. Do all the same time.
SQROOT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 02:18 PM   #15
Chris and Cecil
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Fleahop, Alabama
Posts: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike;263308
BTW, this news makes me really glad I bought a 2018 midel mfd in spring of 2017. Other than the usual complement of sawdust everywhere it's been a sound TT with NO warranty issues. Even Castle Rock tires lasted ~20k miles before I replaced
[/COLOR][/COLOR][/I]

Amen! We got our 2018 Microlite, built in 2017 and our castle rock tires lasted 10K+ miles. Very few problems with this unit, and boy, are we grateful. We shake our heads at some of the problems that come up on this forum and feel bad for the new owners, especially.
__________________
Dentist said I needed a crown.
I was, like, I know!

2018 Flagstaff Microlite 25FKS
2017 Dodge Ram 1500 EcoDiesel
Alabama Potter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 02:29 PM   #16
D W
Senior Member
 
D W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ALASKA (World's Biggest Campground)
Posts: 4,110
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd-ford-hd View Post
In 1995 we started selling towable RV's along side our commercial/utility line of trailers. We were concentrating on toy haulers exclusively which were just coming to everyone's attention. I was appalled at the lack of quality control and eased out of the RV business a short 4 years later.! We are still selling commercial trailers. If RV's had to be subjected to Federal DOT roadside inspections like commercial trailers are, there would be drastic changes made within the industry overnight.!!
From what I understand from reading this forum is that many States have mandatory annual motor vehicle inspections for RV towables, and they actually check tires, lights and pull wheels to check brakes.
__________________
'07 K3500 Silverado LT Crew Duramax (LBZ)
2016 Salem 27RKSS
1984 CHEV SCOTTSDALE K20 2GCGK24J0E1XXXXXX (Chevrolet Legends-Class of 2019)
"...exhaust fluid? We don't need no stinkin' exhaust fluid"
D W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 02:34 PM   #17
Just Tryin' to Help
 
cboss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by D W View Post
From what I understand from reading this forum is that many States have mandatory annual motor vehicle inspections for RV towables, and they actually check tires, lights and pull wheels to check brakes.
NY is one of those states, but they don't check plumbing, construction, electrical problems, etc, etc.
__________________
Craig & Cath
2018 2902WS Rockwood Ultra Lite (with tons of Mods)
2017 Ford F250 Lariat, 6.2 gas (2022 F250 Lariat 7.3 gas with 10 speed Xmsn on order)
Equalizer Hitch w/ 4-Point Sway Control

Days camped since 2015(retirement): 1050
cboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 02:48 PM   #18
Working at retired:D
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 94
We were fortunate our 2017 Wildcat TT only had a few small issues that I fixed myself. Reading the posts here it certainly appears quality has went down hill. Covid has simply added to the problem.
Saw this write up today talking about RV quality. Not a lot of good things to say about all Mfr’s. Hope the link works.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/othe...AOkW4n#image=1
__________________

2017 Wildcat 301RES - 2012 Ford F-350 CC
tx333 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 03:10 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
mjbenedict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 370
I know the manufacturers state that they would need to charge more for the rigs if they did more extensive quality control. I honestly think this would be a welcome charge and it would not need to be too much over the price of these high-priced units. I would have gladly paid thousands more on my motorhome to have it done with higher quality craftsmanship especially when it comes to plumbing and electrical. Funny how they can’t even afford to take a vacuum to the insides of cabinets before closing them up. They need a quality control group that inspects each finished step in construction.
Tearing apart a rig to fix a pipe glued too far down into a black tank should be unnecessary. Leak and capacity tests should be standard, electrical checklist items should be done before leaving the factory. The only thing that the dealer should have to deal with is loose or disconnected items that occurred while the delivery guy pulled/drove the rig to the dealer.

Agree with the post that stated this needs to move from Elkhart. It’s obvious that the workforce is not very concerned with their quality of work.
__________________
2020 Dynamax Isata 5 36DS 4X4 (Super C)
2020 Ram 1500 Limited
Sold: 2015 Rockwood Ultralite 2604WS
No longer mine: 2006 Rockwood Roo 23SS
All pop-up and tent camping before...
mjbenedict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 03:11 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by ependydad View Post
Exactly, where’s the accountability for dealers? It’s my understanding that they can charge PDI fixes back to the manufacturer.

It’s long been said (pre-2020) that RVs are 80% compete when they get to the dealers and it’s up to that dealer to finish what’s not finished or done wrong.

Dealers are as guilty as the next for passing these crap units onto the customers.

Unfortunately, the dealers are having the same issue as many other industries - getting adequate labor staffing and parts to make repairs. A single model of motor home or towable will have components from what - 30 or 40 or more different manufacturers? If you've bought a new unit, you know the stack of manuals that you get with it. Now, a different model from the same manufacturer and model year might have different components. Is it any wonder that dealers have a horrendous issue in many cases with getting the parts to make a repair (even in non-Covid times)?



If you're doing a warranty repair, each component manufacturer has a "flat rate manual" (or Labor Time Guide) that determines the number of hours that will (maybe) be paid for a given repair. That labor hour allowance will (maybe) be paid at the agreed-upon warranty rate (which will be considerably less than the dealer's retail labor rate). Typically the manufacturer's warranty time allowance is around 30% less than what's listed in retail industry guides such as Chilton's or Motors'. So, the dealer is getting a "haircut" on the hours allowed as well as on the reimbursement rate. The same thing happens to the technician making the repair - he is going to get paid based on the "flat rate" regardless of how long it actually takes. The technician's goal is to push the repair through in the least amount of time - in some cases regardless of how well the job is done. The turnover (number of technicians that leave an average RV dealership each year is at least 50% or more.



Is it any wonder that RV dealers don't like performing warranty work in general? If you've purchased the vehicle from them, you may get moved in "front" of someone who purchased elsewhere.



The dealer has really no control over the manufacturer's quality - can complain, can file warranty claims, but ultimately their only choice is to either sell what they can get or drop the line and get something that may or may not be any better.
kluza2786 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
camper, dealer, quality

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:15 AM.