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Old 09-12-2021, 05:17 PM   #1
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RV Dealers Fed-up with Quality

Read this article this morning. I was dismayed, but expected something like this based on the complaints I've read on this forum. I'm sure the RV industry is not the only one affected by a lack of willing skilled workers.

https://www.rvtravel.com/pathetic-qu...oducing-1017b/
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Old 09-12-2021, 05:29 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by cboss View Post
Read this article this morning. I was dismayed, but expected something like this based on the complaints I've read on this forum. I'm sure the RV industry is not the only one affected by a lack of willing skilled workers.

https://www.rvtravel.com/pathetic-qu...oducing-1017b/
It's been like this for quite some time and has gotten worse with the virus .
I'm sure dealers would love to get better products but in the end it's falls on the manufactures that has been doing bum works for years . I think maybe it is time to move the industry from Indiana .Clearly they are worse then Detroit was in the 70's .
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Old 09-12-2021, 05:47 PM   #3
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Clearly they are worse then Detroit was in the 70's .
Yep, reminded me of of some of the Chrysler issue also. They recovered, hopefully the RV industry will also.
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Old 09-12-2021, 07:31 PM   #4
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There is no doubt that there are quality problems but I suspect the dealer complaints are “crocodile tears”. If they were really concerned , they could easily put pressure on the manufacturers to improve by using their association strength to press for it. They are making money and as one of the quotes in the article says “You take what you can get, and you move on.”, shows they are not serious on getting changes made. The dealers are well known in many situations to pass off problems as coming from the manufacturer. As long as there is money to be made and the dealers continue to turn a blind eye in telling the buyer of issues; nothing will change.
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Old 09-12-2021, 10:39 PM   #5
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RV Industry

https://www.rvtravel.com/pathetic-qu...oducing-1017b/

Hope I did this attachment correctly. Just wanted to share
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Old 09-12-2021, 11:45 PM   #6
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https://www.rvtravel.com/pathetic-qu...oducing-1017b/



Hope I did this attachment correctly. Just wanted to share
You posted the same link as in the Original Post here.
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Old 09-13-2021, 09:07 AM   #7
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You posted the same link as in the Original Post here.
Yes Sir, I posted it in a different section of the forum and did not know this was here. One of the mods moved it here. Sorry for duplicate..
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Old 09-13-2021, 09:56 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by MR.M View Post
It's been like this for quite some time and has gotten worse with the virus .
I'm sure dealers would love to get better products but in the end it's falls on the manufactures that has been doing bum works for years . I think maybe it is time to move the industry from Indiana .Clearly they are worse then Detroit was in the 70's .
I just read the article and it was Deja Vu. I was 10vyears into my career in the auto industry when the crap from Detroit started hitting the market.

Only thing that made the mfr's change was the loss of market share to European and Asian car mfr's.

As the writer pointed out there most likely won't be any change in the RV industry until someone starts competing with "Elkhart".

Don't think it will require a super expensive line to take market share as way, just a mfr dedicated to better quality of workmanship and "zero defects".

The cars that kicked Detroit in the "tender spot" weren't all that expensive, they just didn't fall apart as quick.

If "Elkhart" doesn't change then current production RV's will have the same reputation as 70's models of Detroit vehicles, if they don't already.

BTW, this news makes me really glad I bought a 2018 midel mfd in spring of 2017. Other than the usual complement of sawdust everywhere it's been a sound TT with NO warranty issues. Even Castle Rock tires lasted ~20k miles before I replaced
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Old 09-13-2021, 10:23 AM   #9
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Anyone know if even outfits like Lance and Airstream are having these issues?
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Old 09-13-2021, 10:46 AM   #10
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There is no doubt that there are quality problems but I suspect the dealer complaints are “crocodile tears”. If they were really concerned , they could easily put pressure on the manufacturers to improve by using their association strength to press for it. They are making money and as one of the quotes in the article says “You take what you can get, and you move on.”, shows they are not serious on getting changes made. The dealers are well known in many situations to pass off problems as coming from the manufacturer. As long as there is money to be made and the dealers continue to turn a blind eye in telling the buyer of issues; nothing will change.
X2! The dealers complaining is the pot calling the kettle black. The dealers have no qualms with the quality while it's on the sales lot; only when it comes back for warranty work.
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Old 09-13-2021, 12:23 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by TeachTexas View Post
There is no doubt that there are quality problems but I suspect the dealer complaints are “crocodile tears”. If they were really concerned , they could easily put pressure on the manufacturers to improve by using their association strength to press for it. They are making money and as one of the quotes in the article says “You take what you can get, and you move on.”, shows they are not serious on getting changes made. The dealers are well known in many situations to pass off problems as coming from the manufacturer. As long as there is money to be made and the dealers continue to turn a blind eye in telling the buyer of issues; nothing will change.
Exactly, where’s the accountability for dealers? It’s my understanding that they can charge PDI fixes back to the manufacturer.

It’s long been said (pre-2020) that RVs are 80% compete when they get to the dealers and it’s up to that dealer to finish what’s not finished or done wrong.

Dealers are as guilty as the next for passing these crap units onto the customers.
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Old 09-13-2021, 12:38 PM   #12
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It's too bad most of the Canadian manufacturers folded after the 2008 melt down. Vanguard, Peak, Travelaire, Citation, Okanagon all made excellent quality RVs. You can see it in the construction. Look under things and in the cupboards, real wood, even the trim is real wood. I worked in the RV industry for a few years as a salesman and I had a few customers that would rather buy a used Canadian model than any of the new ones. Even Grand Designs quality has decreased as they have increased the prices the last couple of years. I'll hang onto my Puma, at least with the lower (less expensive) models, there's no illusion of quality, even though I've had zero issues since I had the initial issues fixed in the first year.
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Old 09-13-2021, 12:42 PM   #13
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For Years Now.!

In 1995 we started selling towable RV's along side our commercial/utility line of trailers. We were concentrating on toy haulers exclusively which were just coming to everyone's attention. I was appalled at the lack of quality control and eased out of the RV business a short 4 years later.! We are still selling commercial trailers. If RV's had to be subjected to Federal DOT roadside inspections like commercial trailers are, there would be drastic changes made within the industry overnight.!!
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Old 09-13-2021, 12:59 PM   #14
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Quality

I have a Sunseeker 3010DS 2018 that was built in 2017, guess that was lucky as I have not had many issues with it other then things I spoiled. The major items were the door locks inside that keeps the doors closed. Replaced many of those. Knock on wood! Installing front and rear torsion bars this month and waiting on the stabilizer to arrive. Do all the same time.
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Old 09-13-2021, 02:18 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by TitanMike;263308
BTW, this news makes me really glad I bought a 2018 midel mfd in spring of 2017. Other than the usual complement of sawdust everywhere it's been a sound TT with NO warranty issues. Even Castle Rock tires lasted ~20k miles before I replaced
[/COLOR][/COLOR][/I]

Amen! We got our 2018 Microlite, built in 2017 and our castle rock tires lasted 10K+ miles. Very few problems with this unit, and boy, are we grateful. We shake our heads at some of the problems that come up on this forum and feel bad for the new owners, especially.
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Old 09-13-2021, 02:29 PM   #16
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In 1995 we started selling towable RV's along side our commercial/utility line of trailers. We were concentrating on toy haulers exclusively which were just coming to everyone's attention. I was appalled at the lack of quality control and eased out of the RV business a short 4 years later.! We are still selling commercial trailers. If RV's had to be subjected to Federal DOT roadside inspections like commercial trailers are, there would be drastic changes made within the industry overnight.!!
From what I understand from reading this forum is that many States have mandatory annual motor vehicle inspections for RV towables, and they actually check tires, lights and pull wheels to check brakes.
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Old 09-13-2021, 02:34 PM   #17
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From what I understand from reading this forum is that many States have mandatory annual motor vehicle inspections for RV towables, and they actually check tires, lights and pull wheels to check brakes.
NY is one of those states, but they don't check plumbing, construction, electrical problems, etc, etc.
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Old 09-13-2021, 02:48 PM   #18
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We were fortunate our 2017 Wildcat TT only had a few small issues that I fixed myself. Reading the posts here it certainly appears quality has went down hill. Covid has simply added to the problem.
Saw this write up today talking about RV quality. Not a lot of good things to say about all Mfr’s. Hope the link works.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/othe...AOkW4n#image=1
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Old 09-13-2021, 03:10 PM   #19
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I know the manufacturers state that they would need to charge more for the rigs if they did more extensive quality control. I honestly think this would be a welcome charge and it would not need to be too much over the price of these high-priced units. I would have gladly paid thousands more on my motorhome to have it done with higher quality craftsmanship especially when it comes to plumbing and electrical. Funny how they can’t even afford to take a vacuum to the insides of cabinets before closing them up. They need a quality control group that inspects each finished step in construction.
Tearing apart a rig to fix a pipe glued too far down into a black tank should be unnecessary. Leak and capacity tests should be standard, electrical checklist items should be done before leaving the factory. The only thing that the dealer should have to deal with is loose or disconnected items that occurred while the delivery guy pulled/drove the rig to the dealer.

Agree with the post that stated this needs to move from Elkhart. It’s obvious that the workforce is not very concerned with their quality of work.
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Old 09-13-2021, 03:11 PM   #20
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Exactly, where’s the accountability for dealers? It’s my understanding that they can charge PDI fixes back to the manufacturer.

It’s long been said (pre-2020) that RVs are 80% compete when they get to the dealers and it’s up to that dealer to finish what’s not finished or done wrong.

Dealers are as guilty as the next for passing these crap units onto the customers.

Unfortunately, the dealers are having the same issue as many other industries - getting adequate labor staffing and parts to make repairs. A single model of motor home or towable will have components from what - 30 or 40 or more different manufacturers? If you've bought a new unit, you know the stack of manuals that you get with it. Now, a different model from the same manufacturer and model year might have different components. Is it any wonder that dealers have a horrendous issue in many cases with getting the parts to make a repair (even in non-Covid times)?



If you're doing a warranty repair, each component manufacturer has a "flat rate manual" (or Labor Time Guide) that determines the number of hours that will (maybe) be paid for a given repair. That labor hour allowance will (maybe) be paid at the agreed-upon warranty rate (which will be considerably less than the dealer's retail labor rate). Typically the manufacturer's warranty time allowance is around 30% less than what's listed in retail industry guides such as Chilton's or Motors'. So, the dealer is getting a "haircut" on the hours allowed as well as on the reimbursement rate. The same thing happens to the technician making the repair - he is going to get paid based on the "flat rate" regardless of how long it actually takes. The technician's goal is to push the repair through in the least amount of time - in some cases regardless of how well the job is done. The turnover (number of technicians that leave an average RV dealership each year is at least 50% or more.



Is it any wonder that RV dealers don't like performing warranty work in general? If you've purchased the vehicle from them, you may get moved in "front" of someone who purchased elsewhere.



The dealer has really no control over the manufacturer's quality - can complain, can file warranty claims, but ultimately their only choice is to either sell what they can get or drop the line and get something that may or may not be any better.
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