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Old 04-30-2022, 08:05 PM   #21
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When I lived where there was a fire district, They would take out a couple trucks with the ambulance so it could be logged as a call. Sometimes it was some homeless guy that stubbed his toe or OD.
The pamphlet my local FD sent out explained why they often roll an engine with aid car. Strictly for the manpower. They get 5 people instead of two and any "CPR" call usually gets a total of 8 people, either in aid car/paramedic unit and/or engines.
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Old 04-30-2022, 08:21 PM   #22
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But of course anything for more revenue.
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Old 04-30-2022, 09:35 PM   #23
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But of course anything for more revenue.
Not sure I inderstand where this "revenue" is coming from.

Only time our Fire Departments here charge for anything is if they transport a patient to the hospital and the charge is the same if they roll a single aid car or also couple engines.
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Old 04-30-2022, 10:26 PM   #24
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I'm just guessing but aren't the "cleaner burning diesels" still outnumbered by the old "smokers" and "stinkpots"? Even if not outnumbered, how much more pollutants do the old ones put out than the newer ones?
Good questions, that I can't answer. I do know that years ago I swore I'd never own a diesel. Always hated the smell. Not a problem with the newer trucks and I'm very happy with my Duramax. Never say never.
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Old 05-01-2022, 01:12 PM   #25
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They also dropped the testing facilities in MN years ago. So stupid. Buy a brand new vehicle, pay a fee, wait in line to get a clean bill of health. Yet you see oil burners running around and nothing is done about that. All it was was about getting fees, waiting in line (and some were quite long). Glad those days are over.

What I really wish was real verification of people having insurance, not just putting down anything and being able to get license tabs. When I was in the military in MI, you even switch or dropped insurance companies, within a week you got a letter requesting current insurance info. In MN it seams put down any crap at renewal and your good to go.
Back in the mid 80's the cities of Fairbanks & Anchorage mandated emissions testing for vehicles. The program turned out to be a $4 billion debacle which achieved nothing. Fairbanks ended their program in 2010, and Anchorage scrapped theirs in 2012.

As of 2015 in Alaska, Insurance companies who issue a vehicle policy in Alaska must report the policy to DMV. When you go to register your vehicle, or get tabs, the DMV has a data base to verify your insurance coverage. No insurance, no plates or tabs.
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Old 05-01-2022, 01:56 PM   #26
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Back in the mid 80's the cities of Fairbanks & Anchorage mandated emissions testing for vehicles. The program turned out to be a $4 billion debacle which achieved nothing. Fairbanks ended their program in 2010, and Anchorage scrapped theirs in 2012.

As of 2015 in Alaska, Insurance companies who issue a vehicle policy in Alaska must report the policy to DMV. When you go to register your vehicle, or get tabs, the DMV has a data base to verify your insurance coverage. No insurance, no plates or tabs.
As usual CA is the worst or best depending upon you desires. The DMV is linked to the insurance companies because people were getting a policy to clear a ticket or get their tags then dropping the policy.
As for inspections they have inspections for trucks over 10k lbs. except with pickup beds. It makes so much money for the state some counties have their own in addition. They are like a steady diet of people’s money.
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Old 05-01-2022, 02:09 PM   #27
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As usual CA is the worst or best depending upon you desires. The DMV is linked to the insurance companies because people were getting a policy to clear a ticket or get their tags then dropping the policy.
Activists in our state have blocked such actions by the state. They claim laws like that end up penalizing "certain groups" and as a result we have a HUGE number of uninsured drivers on the road. Also unlicensed drivers due to same activists.

When I lived in Colorado the same "no insurance, no license" laws were in effect. Getting stopped with no insurance could even result in the vehicle getting impounded.
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Old 05-01-2022, 02:15 PM   #28
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Here in NC the insurance companies are tied to the DMV. You must show proof of insurance and if you drop your insurance the DMV knows about it within a few days. I changed insurance companies a few years ago and the DMV sent me a letter within a week wanting new insurance information.

Uninsured motorists insurance coverage is not very expensive here.
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Old 05-05-2022, 06:24 PM   #29
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Cool Really?

If they were really honest about health concerns they would moved to EV.
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Old 05-05-2022, 07:01 PM   #30
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If they were really honest about health concerns they would moved to EV.
Given the way power is produced and line loses, charging loses ect. That would just make it worse.
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Old 05-05-2022, 07:31 PM   #31
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It's similar to the claims of "All Electric". What does that really mean? It's clean, if you ignore the details. https://waareeess.com/lithium-ion-battery-recycling/

Never a mention of anything negative, so it's clean. It's called following the Consensus science. But I still haven't found consensus to be part of any Scientific Process. But questioning the hypothesis is part of the scientific process.

Like the current AquaHot rage, I understand that it feels good to have hydronic heat and a sizeable supply of hot water. But it also requires burning diesel, to supplement the available electric heat. Which is cleaner ? Diesel or LP? Those pesky trade offs. Nothing is free. But it's all academic.

Reading the article, it seems they are all for recycling the batteries. This will only add to the cost of batteries. Plus, the other materials in the battery that are not worth recycling ends up in landfills. Recycling sounds great until you add the extra costs. It's the same a recycling plastic. Only certain plastics are acceptable for recycling.

Then add the amount of pollution created by power plants. Solar is an option, but there is not enough solar infrastructure to meet the increase in demand. And again, massive battery banks needed to store the solar energy.

I have read numerous articles about using generators to recharge EV's.
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Old 05-05-2022, 07:38 PM   #32
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Given the way power is produced and line loses, charging loses ect. That would just make it worse.
That doesn’t make sense. How would that make people sicker?
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Old 05-05-2022, 07:50 PM   #33
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My local Fire Department recently sent out a "We're doing a great job" mailing that they often do when softening up the community prior to a Levy Election.

In this mailing they told how they were replacing their ambulances with gasoline powered vehicles "to reduce the exposure of employees to carcinogens".

Seems like there has been extensive ongoing research on Diesel powered engines vs gasoline engines regarding Lung Cancer.

Here's an article that shows some results:

https://academic.oup.com/aje/article...33?login=false



It's clear that diesel engine exhaust contains more small particulate emissions than gasoline. Is it a big health hazard? I guess it depends on how much more one is exposed to diesel exhaust than others.

It also brings up the question of how much of an issue is diesel exhaust after DEF has been burned in an effort to reduce the particulate emissions?

Like I said, some "spice" for the discussion


I doubt very much that the real thing driving this is carcinogens. I would bet your paycheck that the real issue is the difficulty in keeping ambulances in service with modern emissions controls. Many, or most ambulances are left running for hours at a time. This does not work well with modern diesel emissions, that require heat in the exhaust system to burn off particulates. Ambulance operators are left with the options of turning off the engines when not in use, or dealing with a plugged DPF that may take the unit out of service when it is needed most. Diesels were very popular with ambulance services until a few years ago, now more and more are switching back to gasoline, for reliability reasons.
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Old 05-05-2022, 08:12 PM   #34
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That doesn’t make sense. How would that make people sicker?
Because it increases pollution to make electricity the way it is being done. Not to mention cargo ships, aircraft, and much more.
In California UPS has some e-trucks and they go dead before noon, so a driver with a liquid fueled tow truck brings out a gas or Diesel truck and helps transfer the remaining packages and tows the e-truck back.
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Old 05-06-2022, 06:26 AM   #35
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There are only two sources of energy that produce energy at night without carbon emissions, and only one of those that doesn't depend on the weather. If we were really concerned about carbon emissions, we'd be building nuclear power plants.

Tesla already has 5000 charging stations in the U.S. I believe my next vehicle (not a TV) will be electric.

I have two diesel vehicles, and am getting ready to sell the oldest one. Nothing tows like a diesel, but electric could eventually. I can picture long haul truckers giving up 1/4 of their weight capacity for batteries.
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Old 05-06-2022, 06:29 AM   #36
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My local Fire Department recently sent out a "We're doing a great job" mailing that they often do when softening up the community prior to a Levy Election.

In this mailing they told how they were replacing their ambulances with gasoline powered vehicles "to reduce the exposure of employees to carcinogens".

Seems like there has been extensive ongoing research on Diesel powered engines vs gasoline engines regarding Lung Cancer.

Here's an article that shows some results:

https://academic.oup.com/aje/article...33?login=false



It's clear that diesel engine exhaust contains more small particulate emissions than gasoline. Is it a big health hazard? I guess it depends on how much more one is exposed to diesel exhaust than others.

It also brings up the question of how much of an issue is diesel exhaust after DEF has been burned in an effort to reduce the particulate emissions?

Like I said, some "spice" for the discussion
So I take it, you drive an anemic gasser?
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Old 05-06-2022, 06:48 AM   #37
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I spent 35 years in EMS, and we moved to gas trucks about 15 years ago, cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to repair.
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Old 05-06-2022, 07:02 AM   #38
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Another Levy Needed

If they run ambulances there the way we do here, they'll be holding another levy election, which I presume is a tax levy, to replace gas with diesel in another few years.

Our ambulances, by my observation, often run their engines the entire length of a shift. During extreme cold and extreme heat, with many hours spent parked with engines running waiting on their next dispatch. Gas engines won't stand up to that demand and their lives will be short-lived.

But before they realize they've made a huge mistake, the ambulance fleet will become unreliable and service interruptions will occur.
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Old 05-06-2022, 08:03 AM   #39
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Diesel exhaust

Seem like the nations farmers should all be dying of lung cancer. Also, Europeans use diesel much more extensively than we do.
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Old 05-06-2022, 08:38 AM   #40
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The main difference between gas and diesel emissions is where they reside in the atmosphere. Diesel particulates hang low, and is the basis for smog. Gas emissions are lighter and float up higher into the atmosphere.

In the 70's when CA mandated the use of MTBE to replace lead, what they didn't know was that the emissions coming out of the tail pipe would wind up sinking to the ground and get into the soils, and worse, in the water supply.

The addition of the catalytic converters to gas engines made a huge difference, and now with the engine controls, highere HP is achieved with far lower bad emissions. Diesels OTOH have been strangled by emission controls.

DEF is a Catalyst that when heated up and mixed with the exhaust converts the bad Nox into the base elements when it flows over certain metals. DEF is a safe form of Ammonia, and it is the Ammonia that does the work. The SCR is the first stage and actually improves MPG because the engine can be tuned to run leaner, get more power from less fuel while emitted much lower NOX.

DPF is where the fuel savings are lost, so you get a neutral effect on MPG. The DPF captures carbon soot, until it reaches a specified clog rate, there are instruments before and after that measures flow rates and pressures, and when the disparity reaches a certain level, triggers a burn off where raw fuel is dumped into the exhaust stream to burn off the soot.

Neither of these two items should be considered bad, and in the newest trucks, by removing them you get no gains. What is still bad are the EGR systems. The amount of crud that builds up in the intake via the EGR is what kills the Diesel engine. When I installed the fuel pump bypass, AKA Disaster Prevention Kit, I had to remove the upper intake. What a MESS there was inside wheree the EGR used to be. I scraped and chiseled out 5 pounds of oil caked carbon crud from it. Truck breaths much better now. If the engineers can figure out how NOT to use an EGR in a Diesel, they would have a much higher longevity and fewer issues. The EGR is the main issue on these.

I got a new Kubota L4060 HSTC-LE. It has a 42 HP diesel with DPF. When I start it up, no smoke. When I start my 20 YO B2410 26HP diesel, it puts out a small cloud of black smoke, depending on how cold it is. When the B2410 is running you can smell the exhaust, and when running hard, no soot, but idle and some soot shows up. The new one has zero soot, but does need to run hard or the DPF fills up quickly, so no idling.

I have 15 hours on it now, when I first got it, there was a lot of idle time as I was moving it around, and getting the hang of the controls and such and the DPF was climbing quickly. I then went out and mowed with a rough cut mower and teh DPF percentage started to reduce. Running hard and hot reduces the amount of soot being produced and burns off some of the accumulated soot.

Diesels MUST run hard and hot to be efficient and clean. To sit and idle is not good for the engine, the emissions or anyone nearby.

What I am surprised not to see are diesel electric trucks. Size a diesel to a generator so that it runs hard and hot, and you would get cleaner emissions, and plenty of power to move a load.

I don't know what it is with my keyboard, I type in any word that ends in er and get ere. PITA to edit every word like that.
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